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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Thurman Tucker/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 06:46, 20 March 2012 [1].

Thurman Tucker edit

Thurman Tucker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:47, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Those who are familiar with me may have seen Operation Big Bear in my signature, and may or may not know much of said project. Well, here's the first FAC for this project, and presuming I remain interested in the project, it should be the first of many.

Thurman Tucker was a baseball player in the 1940s and early 1950s, who made his mark in the mid-1940s. He developed a reputation as a great fielder, and a good enough hitter that he was okay to leave in the lineup. He usually split time with other players in the lineup, including when he was on the World Championship 1948 Indians (see OBB above). Once 1950 rolled around, he lost a step and was pretty much done as a player. He may be far from the biggest name on that World Series-winning team (I'll get to the more exciting ones soon enough), but he lives on as a result of that season. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:47, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Review by Wrestlinglover; Result: Support on all criteria
Lead
  • "In 701 career games, Tucker recorded a batting average of .255, and accumulated 24 triples, 9 home runs, and 179 runs batted in (RBI)." - Remove the second comma.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was nicknamed "Joe E." Tucker because of his resemblance to comedian Joe E. Brown." - This piece of information is not featured in the article. His resemblance is, however, the nickname I did not see noted.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After his retirement, he became a major league scout and insurance agent. He died in 1993." - Merge them: "After his retirement, he became a major league scout and insurance agent before his death in 1993."--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As for the infobox, I've noticed some of the information noted is not elsewhere in the article outside the lead, such as his left-handed batting, right-handed pitching, and his overall career statistics.--WillC 11:17, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Early life
  • "Thurman Tucker was born and raised in Gordon, Texas." - Include his middle name and birthday, such as "Thurman Lowell Tucker was born on September 26, 1917, and raised in Gordon, Texas.".--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At high school, he was a three-sport athlete, playing baseball (where he was a second baseman), basketball, and track and field." - Switch "At high school" to "In high school" or "During high school".--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After graduating in 1935, he played semi-professional baseball, and enrolled in a baseball school located in Hot Springs, Arkansas." - Remove the second comma--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1936, aged 18, Tucker signed as a professional with the Fayetteville Bears of the Arkansas-Missouri League, but left the team after only two weeks, without playing a game." - Change to "In 1936 at age 18, Tucker..."--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Minor league career
  • "After recovering from the injury, Tucker continued to progress through the minors, and spent the 1938 season with two separate clubs;" - Change to "After recovering from the injury, Tucker continued to progress through the minors, spending the 1938 season with two separate clubs;"--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During his first few years in the minor leagues, one manager asked him to take up clowning due to his resemblance to Joe E. Brown; as someone who was on the serious side, Tucker was against the idea, and it was dropped." - I don't really see how this is notable to his life exactly. This is more like trivia to me. I feel the second part should be changed to "Tucker objected due to his serious nature and the idea was later dropped."--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At spring training for the 1942 season, Tucker competed with Dave Philley for the final outfield spot." - Switch to "Tucker competed against Dave Philley".--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change "White Sox management liked his defensive abilities, and as a result Tucker was on the major league roster on opening day, making his major league debut on April 14, 1942." to "White Sox management liked Tucker's defensive abilities, leading to them adding Tucker to their 1942 major league roster; Tucker made his major league debut on April 14, 1942."--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Chicago White Sox
  • "Only Wally Moses of the Chicago White Sox outfielders was assured of a place at the beginning of the 1943 season." - Reference?--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owing to his achievements, Tucker was named to the All-Star roster for the only time in his career." - Sounds a bit odd, I suggest "Owing to his achievements, Tucker was added to the 1944 All-Star roster for the only time in his career."--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After returning to regular play, Tucker platooned with Philley, and he finished the season with a .236 batting average in 89 games." - Wouldn't "platooned" be jargon?--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cleveland Indians
  • "Tucker also participated in game six of the 1948 World Series, scoring a run in the sixth inning on a walk en route to a 4–3 win for the Indians." - Remove "also", its getting repetitive as the previous sentence has it as well.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Later life
References
  • All appear reliable in my view.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
External links
Images
  • Only one image is featured, I assume as there are no more available? The image has no alt text or a caption, which would be useful. The image appears to have the correct licensing.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm actually familiar with your Operation having checked it out before. You got a battle ahead of you, but I see the determination as I've got a few myself. Anyway, here are some comments. I've attempted to give a very in-depth review to help as much as I can. You've reviewed several articles I've written in the past, I thought I'd return the favor.--WillC 11:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Issues fixed for the most part; did not add the middle name to early life since it doesn't seem necessary or appropriate to me. The Joe E. reference is slightly trivial, but does provide insight into his personality, which helps with the article. The Wally Moses ref is in the following sentence, I can repeat it for both if needed. Lastly, there is only one image available, and it took me a while to find even that. I could add in a free image of someone else (such as Philley or perhaps Hornsby) if it's desired. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support with a copy-editing disclaimer: I peer reviewed this article and had another look before this nomination, doing some copy-editing both times. All my concerns were addressed and I think this is a good piece of work. I cannot comment on the quality of sourcing, but the article seems comprehensive to me. --Sarastro1 (talk) 22:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Quite a few issues in the writing and style for a modest-sized article, but they should be fixable without too much fuss.

  • I see no need to link the White Sox twice in the lead. Same goes for the Indians.
  • Also, World War II is such a well-known event that I doubt it needs the link.
  • Chicago White Sox: To me, the first sentence of the section would read better as "Of the Chicago White Sox outfielders at the beginning of the 1943 season, only Wally Moses was assured of a place on the team."
  • "causing his batting average to shrink from .345 to .327 and in the process losing his status as league leader." The "and in the process losing" doesn't work well with the rest of the sentence. Not sure how to fix it; would "causing a batting average drop from .345 to .327 that resulted in him losing his status as league leader."?
  • "After his average fell to .320 after hitting once in 35 at bats." He hit in each of his at bats; he just wasn't always successful at it. How about "after recording one base hit in 35 at bats."?
  • "His form recovered in the second half of the season, finishing the year...". The part after the comma doesn't go well with what comes before it. Try "and he finished the year...".
  • Don't need two platoon links in three sentences. I know it's jargony, but that's a bit much.
  • Cleveland Indians: The "also" in "and also ended the season with a perfect fielding percentage of 1.000" is redundant and should be removed to make the prose a shade better.
  • "both attempted to make the Indians roster to secure their position on the team". Don't "to make the Indians roster" and "to secure their place on the team" really mean the same thing?
  • Ref 40 doesn't verify that Tucker's move to the PCL ended his major league career, and I don't think that's fully accurate; he just never got called up again by the Indians or another team. Perhaps making it clear that the April 29 game was his last MLB game would solve this issue. Baseball-Reference includes the last appearances of players, so you wouldn't need another cite to insert that.
  • Later life: The Oklahoma City Indians and Texas League links are both repeats from earlier in the body.
  • At the end of the section's first paragraph, and start of the third, there are consecutive cites to the same reference. When this happens, it's usually okay to just have a reference for the last sentence that covers both. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:35, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Issues fixed. Kept the WWII link in since while it is very common, it's not a link you'd necessarily expect in a baseball article. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:58, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Support – All of my comments have been resolved, and I believe this meets all of the FA criteria.
    Images: the only photo is of a 1951 Bowman baseball card, which appears to be legitimately in the public domain due to a lack of copyright renewal. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done, no comment on source comprehensiveness. Don't repeat cited sources in External links. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:58, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All comments noted at this point have been addressed as of this writing. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Source comprehensiveness check. A quick check of the sources doesn't indicate any issues. All the given sources in this article are considered to be reliable sources. For people who are unfamiliar with The Sporting News, it's considered to be one of the finest sources that are available relating to baseball. It was an baseball only publication for nearly 75 years and was edited by one of the most renowed sports journalists of the era J. G. Taylor Spink. Baseball Reference is the most widely used source online regarding baseball stats, and also the most reliable. Secret account 05:01, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I see several statements in the article that he was a great defensive player, but it didn't go into any detail. I think a few sentences on his style of play would be appropriate. Thanks Secret account 03:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll look through the sources again, but stuff like that generally isn't gone into greater detail, and I doubt I'll find anything. When one thinks of a good defensive center fielder the same time of player generally comes to mind. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:16, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK once Giants concern is resolved Support Secret account 02:49, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate note -- While you've got sources on your mind, Wizardman, can you point to a recent spotcheck on one of your FAC noms, as it doesn't look like anyone's done one here? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:33, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Giants did the spotchecks for me on Hornsby and Killebrew, my last FACs. He already did a source and image review so I don't want to overburden him, but I could poke him for one. Since this one relies more on The Sporting News than most of my FACs, I can e-mail those to a spotchecker if they want them. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:54, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Given that those found some issues, I think we'd better have one here. I realise those articles had more edits from others than this one but best get a clean bill of health... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:22, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. It should be fine since I wrote 99+% of this one unlike the last two, but always best to err on the side of caution with sources. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 22:57, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, based on your earlier response I'll leave you to request that of Giants, or on WT:FAC if he's unavailable -- yep? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk)
  • Support. I do not see any serious problems, but I am still curious whether anything is known about his parents? Ruslik_Zero 17:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Wasn't able to find anything; pretty rare to find family info except for the big-time players, got lucky finding what I did. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 12:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source spot-checks – Wizardman asked me on my talk page if I'd consider doing source checks here, and I see the topic has come up here as well. I looked at refs 1, 8, 16, 21, 31, 40, and 44, and found a few points worth bringing up. None are major, though.

  • Ref 1 doesn't say his children were living with him in Oklahoma City, as Later life implies. It just said he had four children, with one in Vietnam (couldn't have been living in Oklahoma then, could he?).
  • Ref 16 doesn't say Tucker had a "comfortable" lead in AL batting average at this point, just that he led. It would have had to give the average of the player behind him to support such a claim.
  • Ref 44 doesn't mention his playing for Carlsbad, just his managing. I suggest moving this ref to come after the next sentence, as the cite there will support the playing career just fine. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:31, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 12:43, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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