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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Slip (album)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 19:05, 12 January 2010 [1].

The Slip (album) edit

Nominator(s): Drewcifer (talk) 19:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

This article easily passed GA some months ago, and now I think it's ready for the next step. Any comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Thanks! Drewcifer (talk) 19:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Media review: Three images:

  • Usage: Good, standard.
  • Rationale: Good.
  • Alt text: Good.
  • License: CC-by-SA-2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Professional.
  • Alt text: Missing.
  • Usage: Good. Exemplifies style of individual artwork created for each album track, which is significantly different from album cover art; sourced critical commentary on art in main text.
  • Rationale: Good.
  • Alt text: Good.—DCGeist (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the image review. I've fixed the missing alt text on the second image. Drewcifer (talk) 05:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Something about the lead strikes me as off, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Could probably be rearranged. I will say that you should clarify that the physical edition of the album was not free. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments Prose could use some outside eyes. The second paragraph of the lead uses "critics" repeatedly, and the sentence "Trent Reznor posted on the official Nine Inch Nails website on April 21, 2008 a post saying "2 weeks!", echoing a similar tactic employed to foreshadow the release of the band's previous album, Ghosts I–IV earlier the same year" is a run-on mess. These are just two examples. Please copyedit thoroughly. Also, it worries me that the "Music and lyrics" section is primarily drawn from reviews. Did no one interview Reznor or any of the other creative minds working on the album about how the music was constructed. I know Reznor's a big gearhead and will go on about what equipment he used (for example, I have a 1994 Guitar World article where Reznor gets very detailed about what computer equipment he used on The Downward Spiral and how he arranged songs. Did Reznor have a general aesthetic in mind? Are there recurring motifs? WesleyDodds (talk) 08:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. I've addressed the first few, I think. As for the amount of detail the music section goes into, I beefed it up a little teeny bit, but there isn't a whole lot to go off of. There's plenty of interviews and general press surrounding NIN around that time, but due to a perfect storm of more interesting circumstances (Reznor's split with Interscope, his experiments with distribution methods, NIN quitting touring, Reznor getting married, some stupid hubub about him deleting his Twitter account, the impending Year Zero miniseries, etc, etc.) and the fact that the album was "quickly assembled" and released, none of the sources actually get around to going into much detail about the music of The Slip. Neither does Reznor, since he's been asked every question but. So unfortunately that just doesn't exist, or at least I've been unable to find it. I'll contact my usual sources to see if they can lead me down the right path, but I'm certain I've included everything possible as it is. Drewcifer (talk) 09:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments What makes these reliable? I'm leaving these for editors to decide for themselves. I'm neutral this time, can't make my mind up fully either way. RB88 (T) 22:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • A link to The NIN Hotline is provided on the official NIN website under the category "News and Information". link. Also, during the whole Year Zero ARG, many news agencies used The NIN Hotline as a source for information (link, for example). Drewcifer (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Links confirm it's a fansite, which is not allowed. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches. RB88 (T) 22:12, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Is not allowed" is a little strong. Your link says it should be questioned; fair enough. I think WP:RS trumps a signpost anyways. So, from WP:RS: "Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." So in other words, even a "fan site" can be considered WP:RS if their "work" has been published by other sources considered WP:RS. Drewcifer (talk) 02:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Then you have yet to provide an RS source that has published their work. The first link merely links it while the other is a website user's blog entries. Also, by convention round these parts, the signpost takes precedence and is much stronger in wording as we are at FAC. Don't be surprised to see even the third-party RS sources being questioned. RB88 (T) 02:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • Matt Dunphy (who runs the NINHotline) has been quoted by USA Today (link). In this case I'd call him the "established expert" they're drawing from. Rolling Stone also quoted the hotline (link). Dunphy has also been interviewed by Kevin and Bean on LA radio, but there's no link to that, so you'll just have to believe me on that one. Drewcifer (talk) 03:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vimeo isn't necessarily a reliable source, but Reznor himself surely is. Drewcifer (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • How do we know the channel is Reznor's? RB88 (T) 22:12, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • The channel isn't Reznor's, but it's an interview with Reznor. Hence, the words are coming from his own mouth. Drewcifer (talk) 02:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Then how do we know this user has permission to post this video on vimeo? Cite the video where it came from, e.g. radio, TV, press pack etc., without a link. RB88 (T) 02:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • The video wasn't "from" anything, besides this exact vimeo link. NIN fans organized themselves on NIN forums echoingthesound.com, and formed these questions to be asked to Reznor, by a member of the community, over a webcast/posted video. The account that uploaded the video (Questions For Trent) uploaded only this video for this purpose. Drewcifer (talk) 03:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Go through the refs and put in italics the names of print media.
  • I'm not sure if I follow you on this one. I went through the refs again, and everything seems in order. Print sources (Cleveland Free Times, Rolling Stone, etc) are all italicized, and online-only sources (Allmusic, Pitchfork, etc) are all un-italicized. Are there specific refs that looked wrong to you? Drewcifer (talk) 04:16, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove italics from online-only publishers.
  • Same as above. Drewcifer (talk) 04:16, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed a few myself. RB88 (T) 22:12, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some refs need the publisher added for uniformity with the rest. Or remove all the corporation publishers from the rest. Your call.
  • Added a few, but the corporation publishers don't apply across the board, so there's a few still missing. Namely, in some cases (Pitchfork for example), its basically self-published, so it would be the same name repeated. Same with ABC News. Drewcifer (talk) 04:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RB88 (T) 16:01, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • A few quick comments An interesting read. Allmusic is published by "Rovi Corporation" after "Macrovision" changed its name last July. In the lead, The Slip is described as the "eighth major album". Is that eighth studio album? Also in the lead, you state that the physical release was not free but this isn't specified in the body of the article. Plus, I have never been a fan of references in the lead. The quotation needs citing but the other facts are surely cited later in the article. -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 01:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments; all have been addressed, I believe. Drewcifer (talk) 02:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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