Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lettuce/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 09:37, 29 July 2012 [1].

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Lettuce

Lettuce (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Lettuce/archive1

Nominator(s): Dana boomer (talk) 13:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I initially started working on this article for the WP:The Core Contest held earlier this year. After the contest was finished, I continued working on the article, and took it to GA status and through a PR with the help of Sasata, Casliber, Manfrombuttonwillow and TheRamblingMan, among others. This is the first plant article I have ever completed significant work on, so I look forward to seeing your comments and suggestions. Thanks in advance! (Oh, and this is a WikiCup nomination). Dana boomer (talk) 13:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Dana boomer. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Support (by GermanJoe) after a complete read-through, though i am hardly an expert in lettuce (beyond eating it ...). Looks comprehensive, well-written, -structured and -referenced. Some minor prose nitpicks and suggestions not influencing my overall support:

• Lead - "Lettuce (Lactuca sativa) is a temperate annual or biennial plant ..." ==> my ignorance probably showing with the first point, but is the biennial part mentioned in the main article? "Cultivation" explains the overwintering varieties, but that's not exactly the same as being biennial, is it?
• "... first cultivated by the Egyptians" ==> "...by the ancient Egyptians" (WP:OBVIOUS, for a clearer timeframe to start).
• "...lettuce has often been [targeted] as ..." ==> "...contaminated lettuce is often ..." is more straightforward (or is there any controversy about lettuce as cause?)
• Taxonomy - "The Romans referred to lettuce as lactuca (lac meaning milk in Latin), which is now used as the genus name, due to the white substance exuded by cut stems.[8] This word has become the genus name, ..." ==> The "genus name" - information is duplicate in both sentences.
• '..."lettuce"...', "... romaine ..." ==> should be italicized without quotation marks (WP:MOS), when it refers to the name itself as term.
• Description - "They have a wide range ..." ==> Needs a new specific subject for "they" (last sentence is only about certain yellow, gold and blue-teal leaves, this one is supposedly for all leaves?).
• "Once plants move past the [eating] stage, ..." ==> "edible" is more formal.
• History - "The variety under cultivation by the Egyptians ..." ==> "The cultivated variety ..." ("by the Egyptians" is redundant here, the whole para is referring to Egypt).
• "... of changing the name of a variety ..." ==> "... of changing a variety's name ..." to avoid the of ... of ... structure.
• "Documentation from the late 19th century showed there to be ..." ==> "shows", could be tightened to: "Documentation from the late 19th century shows between 65 and 140 distinct varieties of lettuce ..."
• "...; however, domestic lettuce's wild relatives produce a leaf that more closely resembles tobacco." ==> resembles in what regard (form, scent, taste, ...)?
• Production - Table source - the embedded citations within the tables make maintenance more difficult (see WP:LINKS and MOS:ECITE). All references in the references section would be better to handle (same for second table below in the article).
• "...have become much larger in scale ..." ==> "... have increased...", avoids "scale"-repetition.

• I've done some other reworking on this paragraph, although I didn't use your exact suggestion. See what you think... - DB

• "Folk medicine has also claimed it as a treatment for pain, rheumatism, tension and nervousness, coughs and insanity; scientific evidence of these benefits in humans has not been found, although similar effects have been demonstrated in mice and toads." ==> Which effects specifically were demonstrated? ("Insanity" and "coughing" for mice?) The studied scientific effects probably need to be listed on their own and briefly described (they are notable enough as the only "proven" medicinal effect).

• The source just says "some of these effects have been shown in mice and toads." It gives a bibliography at the end, but doesn't have footnotes, so I can't be sure which of the studies listed at the end it is discussing. I'm also not sure that additional information is really relevant - if anything, this is probably trivia. - DB

• template "ports" - at the moment the majority seems to want to delete and/or merge this template (and it doesn't fit in "cited literature" anyway). I would remove it and list the portals in a small "see also" section. Just a suggestion.

• I switched it to template:portal, which it probably should have been using in the first place and did some rearranging. See what you think. - DB

GermanJoe (talk) 10:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comments and support, German Joe! I have added individual replies to the things above that I had questions on; the rest I just addressed, so they should be good to go. Dana boomer (talk) 20:36, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• All Done, thanks for the quick fixes. I corrected a minor format bug and moved the table sources to the top (purely for optical reasons, the isolated "source:" was a bit distracting). As the whole tables are each based on one source, this should be ok. GermanJoe (talk) 06:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Comments: Supported below a pleasure to read, looks pretty well written. Some minor comments:
• "The 16th through 18th century saw the development of many varieties in Europe, and by the mid-18th century varieties were being described that can still be found in gardens." Is "century" correct here or should it be "centuries"? Also, minor issue, but is there a good way to avoid the repetition of "varieties"?

• Yes, "centuries" is correct. I've replaced the second "varieties" with "cultivars" to spice things up a bit :) - DB

• There is some repeat linking, check Lactuca serriola, Nitrogen, Calcium, Copper, and Yersinia.

• I think I've taken care of all of the overlinking. Let me know if there's anything I missed. - DB

• "measuring 3 to 4 mm long" Might want to covert this.

• I was told during the GA review that plant articles didn't generally include conversions for measurements this small. However, if you think it is necessary, I can include it. - DB

• No, that's probably correct, makes sense now that I think about it. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• "The domestication of lettuce over the centuries has resulted in several changes through selective breeding; these include slower bolting..." This is fine, but I'd suggest "The domestication of lettuce over the centuries has resulted in several changes through selective breeding: slower bolting..." Mark Arsten (talk) 16:38, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• Done. - DB

• I believe I have addressed all of the above. Thank you very much for your comments, Mark! Dana boomer (talk) 20:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• No problem, this article inspired me to have a salad for dinner tonight. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• There are a few WP:PLUSING constructions in the article, not a big deal, but might want to rephrase some.

• I think I've taken care of these. If you see any others that need to be fixed, would you mind pointing them out? - DB

• Check for instances of "United States" that could be abbreviated to "US".

• Abbreviated several instances. - DB

• "The researcher posited that this may be due to the product's short shelf life, indigenous microflora competing with the Listeria bacteria, or possible properties within the lettuce that cause the bacteria to be unable to cause listeriosis." & "including hepatitis A, calicivirus, and a Norwalk-like strain," Is the serial comma intentional here? I don't think you used it earlier. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• No, that wasn't intentional. Now fixed. Thanks again for the comments! Dana boomer (talk) 02:18, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support Alright, I'm satisfied that this meets FA quality as best as I can tell. I can't speak to completeness, but otherwise this looks fine, good job! Mark Arsten (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks, Mark! Dana boomer (talk) 02:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Source and images - spotchecks not done.

• Be consistent in how you notate multi-author works

• Could you please point out where they are inconsistent? I looked through, but couldn't see any that were out of spec. - DB

• File:Romaine.jpg: any way to fill in the unknowns? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• I've changed out the image for one with better licensing. Thanks for the comments and review, Nikki! Dana boomer (talk) 02:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Buttonwillowite (talk) Hey DB, it's me again.. Just re-reading the article and I realized that there isn't any real history of how lettuce became so common on our supermarket shelves. Because it is so perishable, for the vast majority of its history it was largely restricted to local markets for a limited period of time, right up until the advent of the refrigerated railroad car (it used to be packed in ice, but now it is cooled using a vacuum-type system which allows the product to be packed in the field, a rather critical development which allowed rich growers to bust lettuce packing-house unions and further concentrated power in the hands of a few large multinational corporations who could afford the expensive vacuum systems, and may have also contributed to the increase in E. coli infections occurring through lettuce that we've been seeing over the last several decades [2].. but I digress).

Anywho, nowadays (in the US, at least) the product can be found year-round at relatively stable prices, which is a rather amazing anomaly. I don't know much about the world market, but I do remember reading that McDonald's used to airlift lettuce to Japan from the Salinas Valley in California. I think these facts would be interesting to include, although they are rather US-centric. I can try to track down some sources, if you agree that it would be worthwhile. Buttonwillowite (talk) 19:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Here's an interesting article that discusses the shift towards bagged lettuce: Page 1 Page 2

• I've integrated a bit from this into the Production section. I've also added a bit from the above journal article (on E. coli uptake/survival during vacuum packing) to the Food-borne illness section. Dana boomer (talk) 02:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

• And here's one that document's the shift from ice-pack towards field-pack/vacuum cooling (with some extraneous details): [3] Buttonwillowite (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Added some to the Production section. Dana boomer (talk) 01:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• Here is an article describing the origin of domesticated lettuce. You already have a great description, but it might help flesh things out a bit: [4] Buttonwillowite (talk) 21:33, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• I've read through this, and I don't really think it has anything to add. It's 15+ years out of date, so I'm leery of using any of the genetic info that it contains (many strides have been made in plant genetics in general and lettuce specifically since then), and the history section pretty much covers everything that we already have, and ends in the 19th century. If there was anything specific that you were looking at, though, that I missed, please let me know. Dana boomer (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• This is a picture of a page from a book I read recently, and has a short history of lettuce production in the US: [5]. I'll read some of it again to see if there's anything else that would be good to add. It's from the book "Trampling Out the Vintage". Buttonwillowite (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Somehow I'm doubtful that a biography of Cesar Chavez will have much to add to the article that isn't hopeless trivia or US-centric, but if you come across anything interesting, please let me know. Dana boomer (talk) 02:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

• I've applied for an interlibrary loan of a thesis called "From Seed to Supermarket: Study of the Lettuce Industry", which is cited in "Trampling out the Vintage". It may take a while. Buttonwillowite (talk) 22:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

• Let me know if there's anything interesting there when you get it. I think the article is good as it stands with regard to comprehensiveness, but it's always nice to find little "fun facts" to add in and make things more interesting. Dana boomer (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Under the "Cultivars" section, it is stated that stem lettuce is used in east Asia in stews and creamed dishes, but I believe that stem lettuce is the primary type of lettuce grown in east Asian countries, and considering that China apparently accounts for almost half of all the world's lettuce production according to the article's FAO statistics, I think it would be worth mentioning this under the "Culinary use" section. Let me know if you need a source. Buttonwillowite (talk) 18:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Similarly, any added discussion on chinese production and consumption of lettuce that you can find would be most welcome. Buttonwillowite (talk) 18:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I've found a couple of sources on stem lettuce/Chinese consumption and will add them in, probably tomorrow. I've been swamped in RL and haven't had much chance to work on this, but have begun to add replies above regarding the articles that I've read. Thanks for looking through this again. Also, if there is additional detail that you were thinking should be added, please let me know. I'm mainly concerned with not making the article US-centric... Dana boomer (talk) 02:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

OK, I've integrated some additional material on Chinese production and consumption in the Culinary use section and a couple of different places in the Production section. Let me know if there is specific stuff that you were looking for that I've missed. I should be able to get to the rest of the sources above tomorrow morning. Dana boomer (talk) 01:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I've now finished reading/integrating all of the articles above. I've added a paragraph in the history section on the evolution of the lettuce industry in the past 100 years, so hopefully this addresses your concern in that area. Please let me know if there are additional issues that you see. Thanks, Dana boomer (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you again Dana! I agree that it is essentially complete. I'm still waiting to see if I will be able to gain access to that last thesis and will let you know if it's worth anything. I'm planning to support, but I want to look over it a bit more before making my position formal.. Buttonwillowite (talk) 04:47, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Image check (ok, 2 could use a slightly better tag).

• File:Iceberg_lettuce_in_SB.jpg - Cc-by-1.0 - OK
• File:Lactuca_sativa_seeds.jpg - PD-USGov (author attributed) - ok (should be tagged with the more specific PD-USGov-USDA-NRCS tag)
• File:Kropsla_vruchten_(Lactuca_sativa_fruits).jpg - GFDL / Cc-by-sa - OK
• File:Lettuce_romaine_variety.jpeg - PD-USGov-USDA (author attributed) - ok (should be tagged with the more specific PD-USGov-USDA-ARS tag)
• File:Planche_Lactuca_sativa.jpg - PD-self - OK
• File:Lettuce_mix.jpg - PD-self - OK
• File:Starr_081031-0356_Lactuca_sativa.jpg - Cc-by-3.0 (authors attributed) - OK.

All files have author and/or source information, where needed and are either PD or PD US-government. Some sub-departments of USDA have own, more specific license tags instead of the generic ones, an easy fix. GermanJoe (talk) 19:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC) ==> Done GermanJoe (talk) 06:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, GermanJoe. I have switched out the tags on the two images mentioned above, so everything should be good to go. Dana boomer (talk) 21:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Per WP:GTL See also is for internal links. Links to Commons cats are supposed to be in external links. PumpkinSky talk 13:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

• Changed to external links. Dana boomer (talk) 21:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)

• "an aggressive weed": I don't understand what "weed" means in this context.

• I've linked weed - basically a non-cultivated variety. - DB

• "The name for cos lettuce": "cos lettuce" hasn't been defined at this point; I take it it's another name for romaine?

• Yes. I've restructured this spot, see what you think. - DB

• "3 to 4 mm long": different wikiprojects handle conversions differently; most would add a conversion template here.

• As per the above, I was told during the GA review that plant articles didn't generally include conversions for measurements this small. - DB

• "Work in several of these areas continues through the present day.": Which areas, per that source?

• All of them, actually. Changed. - DB

• "a weedy plant": What does "weedy" mean? Is it different from "weed" above?

• Re-written a bit. - DB

• "Lettuce appears in many medieval writings, especially with regards to its use as a medicinal herb.": "with regards to", "related to", "concerning", etc., are quite common in the media and in academic writing ... but then, many academics and much of the media seem to be on a quest to appear to being saying something, without actually saying anything specific enough to be challenged. In good writing, it's better to be specific. Would this be wrong, per the source? "Lettuce appears in many medieval writings, especially as a medicinal herb."
• "previously-used": no hyphen per WP:HYPHEN, Chicago and Garner's.

• Two above points done. - DB

• Otherwise, So far so good on prose per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, at Lettuce#Cultivation. These are my edits. (The toolserver may not show the most recent edits.) - Dank (push to talk) 14:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks, Dank! I believe I have addressed everything above. Please let me know if there is anything else that you see. Dana boomer (talk) 18:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
  • One tweak. Your edits all look good. - Dank (push to talk) 19:33, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support Comments finally reading through this article (again) now on prose and comprehensiveness - sources not spot checked - I'm happy with calling L. serriola an aggressive weed. MOre notes now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Might seem obvious but should warrant a note - why is production combined with chicory....rationale for this should be explained in text or as a footnote. Otherwise looking well-polished and good to go methinks....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:24, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Cas! I've added a brief mention of this in the text - I'm not exactly sure why the FAO combines the two, so I just said "for reporting purpose". Check and see what you think? Dana boomer (talk) 18:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Support: I must apologise for getting to this so late. It has been on the periphery of my interest for ages, since I encountered it months ago during the last Core Contest. I saw a FA in the offing then, since when much work has been done, not least through the thoroughness of this FAC. I have just a couple of points:

• In the lead, "Despite its beneficial properties, contaminated lettuce is often..." This reads oddly. I think the meaning is "Despite its beneficial properties, lettuce when contaminated is often..."
• There is reference in the "Medicinal lore" section to lettuce as a religious symbol, but I see no examples of where this is so. Also, the last line of the article reads: "The religious ties of lettuce continue into the present day among the Yazidi people of northern Iraq..." I don't think any previous "religious ties" have been established, beyond beliefs in folk medicine which are hardly religious in nature. Maybe a little rewording in this section?

Otherwise a thorough and creditable job. Brianboulton (talk) 11:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Spotchecks

• Article: Other bacteria found on lettuce include Aeromonas species, which have not been linked to any outbreaks; Campylobacter species, which cause campylobacteriosis and Yersinia intermedia and Yersinia kristensenii (species of Yersinia), which have been found mainly in lettuce.[46]
• Source: Yersinia enterocolitica was the only species isolated from grated carrots, whereas Yersinia intermedia and Yersinia kristensenii were mainly isolated from lettuce. The presence of Aeromonas ... strains have been isolated from a wide range of seafoods, meats and poultry as well as from seed sprouts, lettuce or salad greens...Campylobacter enteritis has also been associated with lettuce
• Article: For example, ancient Egyptians thought lettuce to be a symbol of sexual prowess[40]
• Source: lettuce symbolisms in, 2:378
• Article: Nutrient deficiencies, including a lack of boron, phosphorus, calcium, molybdenum or copper, can cause a variety of plant problems that range from malformed plants to a lack of head growth.[28]
• Source: This information is given on pages 137-140, not on page 129.
• Article: Lettuce grows best in full sun in loose, nitrogen-rich soils with a pH of between 6.0 and 6.8. Heat generally prompts lettuce to bolt, with most varieties growing poorly above 75 °F (24 °C); cool temperatures prompt better performance, with 60 to 65 °F (16 to 18 °C) being preferred and as low as 45 °F (7 °C) being tolerated. Plants in hot areas that are provided partial shade during the hottest part of the day will bolt more slowly. Temperatures above 80 °F (27 °C) will generally result in poor or non-existent germination of lettuce seeds.[28]
• Source: Lettuce grows best in rich, loose soil with a pH between 6.0 and 6.9. It likes full sun..grows best at temperatures between 60 and 75 F, but will tolerate temperatures as low as 45 F. Plants exposed to high temperatures will bolt. Page 137, not on page 129
• Article: Lettuce is closely related to several Lactuca species from southwest Asia; the closest relationship is to L. serriola, an aggressive weed found in much of the world.[7]
• Source: Lettuce, Lactuca sativa L., from the Compositae (Asteraceae) family...its closest wild relative is weedy L. serrola, which abounds in the Mediterranean basin and south-west Asia. It is an aggressive summer weed in much of the subtropical and temperate climate zones of the world.
• Article: Leaf – Also known as looseleaf, cutting or bunching lettuce,[32] this type has loosely bunched leaves and is the most widely planted. It is used mainly for salads.[29]
• Sources: Looseleaf, Leaf, Cutting or Bunching...These are the easiest kind of lettuces to grow, and they form no heart or head, as the name indicates.[32] Leaf lettuce, the most widely adapted type, produces crisp leaves loosely arranged on the stalk. Nearly every garden has at least a short row of leaf lettuce, making it the most widely planted salad vegetable.[29]

No issues apart from the different page ranges noted above, please check these. Graham Colm (talk) 13:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Graham! Are we perhaps looking at different copies of the Bradley book? I double checked, and for my version (2009 paperback), the information is definitely on page 129. Pages 137-140 cover completely different plants... Dana boomer (talk) 01:27, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.