Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Daniel Day-Lewis/archive1

Daniel Day-Lewis

This is a self-nomination, I've been working on this article for a while now in hopes to get to featured status. It has had a peer review where I received a few pointers that I have fixed and/or explained, although I'll admit that I cut it short in order to simply nominate it for featured article status since I have a lot of confidence in it......... but let's just see how it goes. The Filmaker 05:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support, very comprehensive and well written. However, I'd suggest having one "career" sections split up into multiple subsections.--Fallout boy 08:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Could you explain what you mean in more detail? Are you suggesting that I split say "My Left Foot" into it's own subsection? The Filmaker 06:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support: Obviously I'm supporting it since I'm nominating it and I'm working on it. :) The Filmaker 06:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• Object. The writers seem to have struggled with converting fawning press copy into a proper article, and not quite succeeded. Things like However, it has been denied by several crewmembers that he actually slept with the musket as well and Day-Lewis reportedly immersed himself once again in the character he was portraying come across as too po-faced. There's also some over- (or just plain mis-)writing: this film would showcase his last role ever; Daniel Day-Lewis felt eerily empty of emotion. I can't see any justification for four fair-use images of Mr Day-Lewis Mark^{your words} 01:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I see what you mean, I've taken out the "Ballad of Jack and Rose" photo, in addition to changing the "Gangs of New York" photo to a new close-up poster. The Filmaker 04:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
    • The justification is to show him in different roles. It does not make any difference in fair use law how many different films we show him in, just that there is an acceptable reason to do it and we are only showing a very tiny portion of the product (one frame out of thousands). Arniep 00:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment: Using four fair use images is not going overboard. Provided that they all aren't from the same movie, and are used for illustrative purposes, the image use is acceptable.--Fallout boy 00:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Hmm, I think I'm going to flip-flop and agree with fallout boy, and Arniep on this. Four images is fine as per the comments above. The Filmaker 18:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Corrected: I've rewritten the article to correct the over-writing. I hope it is to your satisfaction. :) The Filmaker 00:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Some comments from my PR review remain outstanding. Overall, this really needs a copyedit, I think. The paragraph beginning "His acting continued along with his unruly behavior" is still a problem -- that first sentence should be a topic sentence for the paragraph, but the sentence focuses on the acting, and the paragraph on his drug problem. "locked him in a room with a nurse's supervision" is more detail than really seems relevant; being hospitalized for a drug problem is the central thrust, and if more details were warranted, the fact that he was under a nurse's supervision would not be one of them. Anyone hospitalized (at least in a developed country) is under a nurse's supervision, and, as a matter of fact, under a doctor's supervision too. I don't mean to be too picky about this one paragraph, but it seems woefully out of place and is giving all the wrong details. Some other things to look at:
  • "is exact whereabouts and actions in this gap of history are not known" (makes it sound like a historical mystery, but I bet there's at least one person that knows).
  • Pay attention to where you refer to him as "he" vs "Day-Lewis" -- generally, the first use in a paragraph and definitely the first in each section should be "Day-Lewis"; otherwise it can be mostly "he"s, except of course where ambiguity is an issue.
  • Why a "Selected filmography"? That should be complete -- if there's too much to add, make a separate page like Daniel Day-Lewis filmography and then keep a summary of the most important stuff on this page.
  • Any way to cite "Many fans on message boards and websites across..."?
  • "On one visit from his English agent" -- why are we specifying that the agent is English?
• Tuf-Kat 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
  • If I could belabor the paragraph - the central problem is that it doesn't make it clear if he was imprisoned or hospitalized. It implies the latter, but I can't imagine that in the UK, you can be hospitalized against your will for simply hallucinating. And you certainly don't have to be prove yourself "sane and sober" to get out of a locked room. (probably only have to prove you're not a danger to yourself or others, or something along those lines) I know that paragraph is cited, but still... what precisely does the Jenkins biography say? Tuf-Kat 15:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
• I'm sorry that I have been gone for so long. I've had a lot too do in the last few days. But for the moment I'm only going to address a few points.

The paragraph that Tuf-Kat speaks of, I'm beginning to feel is a little too ambigous. The problem being that I don't have enough information. I can fully recall reading about the incident in the Jenkins bio, but I can't recall what was said exactly and since I do not own the biography, I can't simply look it up. This is speculative I know. How do I absolutely KNOW it is in the biography? I don't. This and all of the other red tape centered around the paragraph have simply led me to the decision to delete it. There are too many questions and I don't have any answers. So I think this is the best decision.

As for "Selected filmography" obviously Day-Lewis has appeared at Award shows, and has done guest appearances on one or two shows. I don't believe that they are, shall we say, worth putting up. If you think otherwise, let me know. But the fact that they are not up, warrants a "Selected filmography" title.

I don't know why we are specifying "English agent", so I've corrected it.

I've changed the "whereabouts and actions" sentence to be less mysterious and more straight forward.

The "message boards and websites" can be cited from my memory and my diary. But that probably won't work so I've corrected the sentence. :D

• I will correct the "he vs. Day-Lewis" problem in the morning. Take comfort in that all of your problems you've brought to my attention will be fixed very soon. :) The Filmaker 06:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Corrected I have corrected the "He vs Day-Lewis" problem to what I hope is your satisfaction and to my knowledge all of your notices have been corrected. I hope I've earned your support vote, Tuf-Kat. :) The Filmaker 19:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• Object. The screencap from The Unbearable Lightness of Being cannot be fair use currently. It is only discussed twice in the article; once by an image caption (which only states what the image is), and once by a sentence that mentions Day-Lewis played the leading part. The other images are very much fair use, because the roles Day-Lewis played are extensively discussed by the article (which delves into how he prepared for the role, the accolades and criticism he got, etc.). However, his role in The Unbearable Lightness of Being is not critically discussed at all. Under this circumstance, I must object. Please try to write more about his role in the film, or remove the image. Johnleemk | Talk 10:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I've researched and added some new information to the "Unbearable Lightness of Being" paragraph in order to make in a fair-use image. The Filmaker 06:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• I want to support, but I've found some terrible prose in the article. I'm in the process of trying to repair it, but until then, I can't support. Johnleemk | Talk 07:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Okay, done. Tentative support, since I'm not entirely sure if I got the writing right, and there still might be some bits I missed. Johnleemk | Talk 07:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Object Overall, an interesting article (DDL is...intriguing), but there are problems with writing, structure, and I think with comprehensiveness.

• Lead is poorly organized The extended explanation of his English/Irish citizenry seems unnecessary, and is not further developed in the text. Positioning it as the second sentence is odd: is there an importance to this? The intro of his family seems relevant because they are all involved in show business, but that probably should be explicitly set up ("He came from a family of..." type of thing). And the stuff in the third para should be moved up. Overall, it just didn't read smoothly.
• Overall writing needs tightening up It is an easy enough read that's unfortunately sprinkled with long, near run-on sentences. This is an extreme example, but there is more throughout: "After his three year absence following completion of production on The Boxer, Day-Lewis was convinced to return to his acting career by Martin Scorsese (with whom he had worked on The Age of Innocence) and Harvey Weinstein to play the villain of Scorsese's Gangs of New York opposite Leonardo DiCaprio, with a glass eye an intense racist attitude as New York gangleader and butcher, William Cutting."
• Sections are poorly organized "Five year absence" and "Return to acting" seem to belong within the Career section, not as main sections. Also, "Five year..." is not accurate, since the text identifies it as three years; and, these subsections don't really make that much sense, like divisions just for the sake of (it's not really established why the three year gap is such a big deal). Also, "Early life" and "Personal life" don't work well, especially the latter seems just dropped in there. Perhaps combining all that into one Biography section would be better.
• Some things missing? This may not be the case, but after reading about such a single-minded, possibly eccentric character, I couldn't help wondering, what else? DDL must have been involved in other things than acting and woodwork? No causes? No other side adventures? Nothing else about him? His woodworking and protection of privacy are noted, maybe that's all there is. If so, the section set-up, with "Personal life" at the end, left me with more questions...

The "story" is good, but it overall seems thin. The references also iffy, a couple of sources, like the plain text page off a tripod.com site are not good, but right now I think that's secondary to the basic issues outlined above. --Tsavage 23:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)