User talk:UBX/mental health consumer

'mental health consumer'

This expression smells like a product of the politically correct bureaucratic euphemism industry.

(1) I'm not into consumerism;

(2) I don't think mental health is something that one consumes, except perhaps in the case of someone (Jane say) driving other people mad, when perhaps you can say that the Jane consumes the mental health of others;

(3) Mental health is conceptually difficult and inherently POV. To say that a liver is healthy, is to say that it is functioning correctly; to say that a person is healthy is to say that he/she is functioning correctly. While it might be relatively easy to say whether a machine or an individual organ is functioning correctly, to say what it is for a person is to function correctly can be tricky: it would involve a claim to know how a person is meant to function, which would mean that you claim to know the answer to some BIG PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTIONS, like 'what are we here for?' It is slightly easier to point to cases of gross dysfunctionality: mental illness is thus an easier concept than mental health, despite (or because of(?)) what Thomas Szasz has to say in The Myth of Mental Illness.

(Perhaps I'm conflating 'person' with 'mind' and its adjective 'mental' in the above. But I don't think the conflation matters in this case. Substitute 'mind' for 'person' in the above paragraph if you like.)

The term loony is preferable because it is short and people have a reasonable rough and ready idea of what you are talking about, and doesn't commit you to any kind of philosophical position, any more than talking about 'sunrise' commits you to flat-earthism or geocentricism.

Some might object to 'loony' as it has become a term of abuse like 'nigger', which was not originally inherently pejorative. 'Gay' might be going the same way with some people. 'Mental' has become a term of abuse amongst some. I can imagine that if 'MHC' catches on, 20 years from now, maybe less, 'MHC' will become a popular playground taunt, and Mrs Grundy and the politically correct bureaucratic euphemism industry will have to come up with yet another neologism in line with the official ideology of the day. Stand your ground and use real old-fashioned words!

--Publunch 19:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

revised --Publunch 21:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I have revised the above, as I have been accused of making a personal attack, though I don't know who I was supposed to be attacking personally. If I am supposed to be attacking loonies then I'd be a deliberate self-harmer as I'm a loony myself. If it is about people, then it is about those who take themselves a little bit too seriously. Perhaps the original was a little bit too polemical. If anyone does have a reply to what I say, I would ask them to deal with specific issues, such as point (3) above. It might also be a good idea to put the reply on this page.

--Publunch 21:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Herostratus - please don't censor my edits. I stand by my comments. Please be specific in any criticisms. If you can't do this, I believe there is an arbitration committee that can help us.

--Publunch 22:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

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OK, If you're the kind of person who calls a lavatory a 'convenience', use this userbox, but I'm not having it on my userpage.

--Publunch 04:35, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

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• Right, even the earlier version wasn't a personal attack, it was out of line and thin-skinned for me to accuse you of that, and I apologized and struck out that template on your talk page.
• OK, I removed your remarks once, on the grounds that, enh, I thought (perhaps wrongly) they were kind of divisive and pointless and that you'd probably not care. You put them back, per your right, and I won't remove then again, especially since they're improved.
• Right, as I noted, it is kind of awkward, probably created to parallel its sister template mental health provider. But I'm not sure what would be better.
• I don't think it's euphemistic so much as trying to find a way to succinctly express a complicated sentence. I guess maybe something like "This user takes prescribed mental health drugs and/or uses psychotherapy", but: (a) too long, (b) "prescribed mental health drugs" is awkward, but what other term is there? "Psychotropic" is too broad (it includes LSD), "antipsychotic" is too narrow, just "mental health drugs" is too broad (could include recreational marijuana users (not the intent)), etc. (3) even with the extra words, meaning is narrowed to exclude people in various treatments that are not psychotherapy, etc.
• As far as "Loony"... it's overly informal, charged, insulting to many, broadly and poorly defined, etc. By all means, make an alternate template that says "Loony". But don't be surprised to find it used by people who consider themselves "loony" in the sense of dances-on-a-pub-table-after-a-few, and find yourself mistaken by many if not most people, at least Americans, as fitting into that category. I think many people would take "Loony" to mean "eccentric" or "wild" rather than (say) "struggling with an affliction that has destroyed my career and family" (for instance).
• I can't see where "MHC" would become a playground taunt, or that that (at least in America) that that would be allowed, anymore than using "cancer victim" or whatever as a taunt. Anyway, if that happens, then is the time to change it.
• The philosophical questions of "what constitutes mental health" etc., become, I think, less interesting for those who have lost a child to suicide or seen a parent or sibling struggle with schizophrenia, compulsion, and so forth. While "mental health" is a little slippery, I think most people understand to mean quite simply and obviously the obverse of mental illness.
• BTW FWIW lavatory -- which means place to wash, I believe -- is hardly less euphemistic than convenience. If you really dislike euphemism, try replacing "I need to go to the lavatory" with "I need to defecate". Let me know how many second dates you get... =)

Herostratus 17:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

change link to bold

I'm changing the link to bold, in line with most other userboxes. Herostratus 19:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)