User talk:UBX/feminist2

Image?

Feminism needs more symbolism. There's the female symbol, which is nice, but I'd rather keep this template not aligned to traditional masculine or feminine ideas. There's also the "unisex" symbol, but that's only a female symbol next to a male. I don't like this one because it still symbolically places men and women as separate, and myself being anything but a liberal feminist, see that as almost perpetuation of the problem. Can anyone think of an idea for a symbol that thrashes the idea of gender roles completely? Because that would be swell. But I'd rather keep the "F" than adopt a female or unisex symbol, as an effort to keep this as a more gender-less template. After all, as the text indicates, this is the feminist template for those at least partially eschewing gender roles. Sarge Baldy 08:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a fantastic and very important point. I have carried out your recommendation. --Gmaxwell 04:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

That would be a nice joke, but you're confusing gender and sex. An amoeba has no gender, true, but neither do any species but human beings, because gender is a human social construction. Sex is a biological property. Sarge Baldy 04:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Untrue. The animal kingdom has gender roles as well. Don't be speciesist. You're correct that the amoeba has no gender, thus perhaps it's not ideal for thrashing gender roles. I've proposed a new image. --Gmaxwell 20:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, I like your image, although I still think the sea horse is somewhat better. .. In any case it's still a massive improvement over the F. Since Sarge Baldy is refusing to discuss, I guess we can't tell what he thinks... but it appears that he has something against animals, so perhaps he will be happier with your edit. --Gmaxwell 22:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't seem to be happy, he just reverted it :-( I'll find a better pic. --Cyde Weys 22:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

That image has nothing to do with gender. The top line refers to the homosexual to heterosexual spectrum, and up refers to sexuality. Down refers to asexuality, and the area shaded in shows that the individual is in that asexual block. Sarge Baldy 22:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Sexuality? So are you telling me that symbol is intended to imply that the the person is actually asexual rather then associates with the notion of an asexual gender or gender neutrality? I find that a bit hard to believe. You still have not explained your removal of the sea horse.--Gmaxwell 22:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes. That symbol was developed by AVEN [1], a website devoted to asexual individuals and asexual awareness. I myself am asexual and a member of the site. I removed the seahorse because a) I found it too "out there" for anyone to actually get the joke b) I find an image generally unnecessary and c) I don't understand your motivation for modifying a template you aren't using. User templates are created for user expression, and the people using the template were presumably happy with the template as it was. Sarge Baldy 22:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand this objection. It's a Wiki; everyone can edit every page. It's not like editing of United States is limited to Americans. --Cyde Weys 22:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

This isn't an article though, it's a userbox. It isn't for everyone, it's for the people using it. It's more like editing someone's user page than editing an article. Sarge Baldy 22:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

That's kind of a bad analogy, because everyone is allowed to edit anyone else's userpage, just like with articles. It is a Wiki, after all. --Cyde Weys 23:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

No, it's a fine analogy. You're allowed to edit a userbox just like you are a user page, but you should do so with care and respect for the user rather than just barging in and playing with things as you like. If someone makes a change to my user page, I certainly don't feel obligated to discuss the change before reverting it. Sarge Baldy 23:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Sarge, you are incorrect. This is a part of the project's template namespace... not someone's userpage which kills your argument that it isn't intended to be edited. Please stop attempting to assert ownership over a page on Wikipedia. You do not own this page or any other page. Cyde and I have proposed many different variations in an attempt to find a version that we can all agree on, and yet you insist in simply reverting to your preferred version, often without comment. You have violated 3RR and if you continue to do so you will be blocked from editing. In any case, the sea horse isn't a joke... It's an excellent symbol demonstrating a more nuanced concept of gender roles, as was requested. --Gmaxwell 07:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

TfD

This template has been nominated for deletion, and the result of the debate is keep. See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 February 22 for details. - Mailer Diablo 08:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)