User talk:Timtrent/Archive 45

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Re User:Ahmed12322/sandbox

Please do not decline CSDs without first looking at the page's deletion history. The page was previously deleted by Fastily under WP:U5, making it not eligible for a WP:REFUND, and was re-created six minutes later with identical content. Uhai (talk) 17:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Uhai Thank you for your words. I disagree with the prior deletion. We are entitled to disagree. It is how we handle the disagreement that says a great deal about us. Since no editor has a greater status than any other, and since any editor may express an opinion regarding speedy deletion at any time it seems to me that your route should have been MfD now. That would fulfil WP:BRD, too.

I find Herb Cohen's thoughts to be relevant here. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Uhai Seems that ‎Smartse also disagrees with CSD. I've pinged them so that they are aware of your objection, and to save you from the trouble of messaging them as well 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for taking my advice on the use of MfD. In these cases the community is a better judge than any individual.. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:07, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

If you disagree with a prior speedy deletion, then the only two valid avenues are to communicate with the deleting sysop followed by going to WP:DRV. Inhibiting the redeletion of a verbatim recreation in a non-WP:REFUND CSD category is disruptive. This goes as well to Smartse, the sysop who declined the CSD tag, in that they should have discussed with Fastily before making one decision or another. Furthermore, that my nomination of that page for CSD in any way constitutes WP:BOLD is an entirely invalid assertion. If anything, your decline would be considered bold factoring the previous U5 deletion and my re-tagging being a valid operation in response to a bold edit. It is only upon another reversion by yourself or another editor would I go to MfD to avoid edit warring, which I did.

In the future, if you're going to nominate pages for CSD or clerk CSD categories, please do a thorough check of the creating user's contributions and registration date, the deletion history of the page, along with a perusal the contents of the page (including and especially external links present).

I appreciate your concern for new editors and your desire to not WP:BITE, but as someone who regularly deals with promoters and UPE, I'll tell you that normal editors don't create content like that within five hours of registering their account, especially without some other edits elsewhere that they're directed to make via newcomer tasks. Just because CSD-fulfilling content is in a user space draft, may be a valid attempt at genuine content (though a complete failure), and is theoretically improvable doesn't make it immune to CSD in the meantime, in response to your statement There is scope for development and Smartse's obviously an attempt so not U5. At the end of the day, it's an unsourced essay with external links in the body to the same company's website and no discernable subject for an encyclopedia article, prime WP:U5 material if not WP:G11—an essay which, by the way, is copy pasted from some marketing materials somewhere; just compare the English skills on the page in question to those demonstrated by the editor in the Teahouse post.

If we WP:AGF, as we should, and this user really wrote this content himself and doesn't understand how encyclopedia articles are written versus essays, the page should still be deleted as Wikipedia does not host this kind of content. Full stop. The editor received a welcome message with the first CSD nomination and is more than welcome to ask for guidance, as he eventually did after a tendentious recreation and several tendentious AfC resubmissions, for how to create content that is suitable to remain published on the website, first and foremost, and how to make it suitable for the main space, secondly. Uhai (talk) 04:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Uhai Thank you for this guidance. I have read it with interest. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

You are most very welcome and please don't hesitate to get in touch with me in the future with any questions regarding the CSD or identifying spam. In the meantime, please do check out the latest creation by this editor at Draft:MVP which, in the sixteen hours since his first creation, demonstrates his improvement via careful study of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines which he was informed of via talk page notices and AfC declines. Uhai (talk) 16:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Uhai He has created a WP:ESSAY. I am not at all sure of the point you are seeking to make? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Carmody Notability

Thank you for your quick response to the review of the draft new page about Bill Carmody. User:Backyard116/sandbox/Bill Carmody. I appreciate that you have tried to give me a path forward in your note. I see you have been an editor on Wikipedia for many years, and I am new, so I appreciate this very much. But you are mistaken in some of your comments. Perhaps you over relied on the previous comment/review by CNMall41 for some of the facts – which I addressed in this latest draft, which was almost totally rewritten from scratch because of CNMall41’s feedback. This is also why I removed the June 29, 2023 Comment from CNMall41 that you later restored, as it responded to a completely different draft. I still think it ought to be removed because most of what it says isn’t relevant to the draft as it is now.

I understand you probably only had a few minutes on the review, whereas I spent dozens of hours on this draft, including studying the relevant Wikipedia policies. I have left an extended note as a new Comment at User:Backyard116/sandbox/Bill Carmody to address the very detailed concerns you raised. Perhaps we can further discuss it here after you have looked at my Comment. The crux of the argument for notability lies in the fact that Carmody has been profiled in multiple, independent, high-quality reliable sources. It does not depend on his participation in legal cases. Unfortunately, several of these in-depth sources are paywalled so to remedy this problem, I have left extensive excerpts on the Talk page. Next, all the facts in the article are verified with high-quality secondary sources, including Carmody’s participation in various cases. There’s no use of sources that do not mention Carmody. There was only one Primary in the draft, to support the year of school graduation, and out of an abundance of caution, I replaced it with a secondary source, though it meant removing the year of graduation. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that every fact on the page must be verified by a source that is about the subject of the article. WP:NOTEWORTHY. I do appreciate that you said providing sufficient references to verify the facts in the draft “is likely to make this draft a clear acceptance (0.9 probability)” and I hope you’ll agree if you check the references more carefully, that there is proper WP:Verify and the page should therefore be approved. Thanks so much! Backyard116 (talk) 19:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Backyard116 I have little time left today. I will consider what you say when I do have time. Meanwhile please feel free to submit for further review. Another reviewer will be along to review. Appreciate your detailed message. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Backyard116 I have managed to find the time. I have read your draft based rebuttal of my review and your message above.

First, I made my review based upon the draft, not on another reviewer's comments. I noticed them and also saw the edits history, and it was obvious to me that the draft had changed substantially since that review

Second, if you are not relying on "notable cases" why are there eight paragraphs about these cases (lawyer's work) and two paragraphs about the man himself. A lawyer is not his cases. Let me try to explain. If they manufactured vacuum cleaners, the cleaners would be their work. A vacuum cleaner could not be a reference for them, simply because it is the product they make. So it is with research, writings, cases etc. However, a review of their work by others tends to be a review of them and their methods, so is a reference.

I stand by my comments. Your job is to prove Carmody passes WP:BIO. A reviewer's job is to accept a draft when in our personal opinion we believe it stands a better than 50% chance of surviving an immediate deletion process. What I see with this draft is that, were it to be accepted in this iteration it would either be massively précised or be offered for deletion and likely be deleted.

And references to verify notability must be about Carmody not about a case, must be independent of Carmody, in addition they must be significant coverage (three or more paragraphs), and the sources must be reliable.

References to verify uncontroversial facts do not need to pass these tough criteria. That is what I said in my review, and I say it again, here, in different words.

You might wish to follow the link to the Articles For Creation Helpdesk and ask there. Be brief and specific in your question. You can always ask supplementary questions in the same section.

If you resubmit it for a further review you will get other eyes on it. It is very rare indeed that I review a second time. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@Backyard116 Well, I replied as soon as I was able because it appeared that your need to know was important. It appears that was not the case after all, and I received your message as part of a "fire and forget" missile barrage, evidenced by the fact that I see you have been asking for help from 25 individual editors and one Wikiproject. Your message to me was not couched in language that endeared you to me, yet I still decided to give you a reply.

With a chid we would call your approach "Asking the other parent" - an approach that doe snot endear the child to the first parent asked. In this case you have asked 24+ other parents. I have no idea what they will say, and I no longer have any interest.

When you ask for help, recognise that you are not better than me, as I recognise that I am not better than you. Yet your tone implied that you do not recognise this.

Note that your copying and pasting of verbatim references was a breach of copyright, They have been removed and redacted. I have left a formal warning on your talk page not to do it again. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Stats

The latest backlog drive leaderboard stats, just now, have us both at 339 reviews. (Snap!) Of these, you've accepted 115, vs. my 27. Remarkable difference! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing very remarkable.. One of us is likely to be correct!! I wonder who 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

We could both be right. Perhaps we tend to pick up different kinds of drafts, and if we were to swap, the stats might also then flip. Or maybe we both agree that something is borderline, but you marginally fall on one side of the fence, I on the other, and neither is more right or wrong about it.

Then again, we could of course both be wrong! :)

I don't put too much store in these numbers, and certainly wouldn't endorse any arbitrary acceptance % 'target'; just thought the contrast in our figures was interesting. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I think I hit the older entries early where some had not even been reviewed. There was a lot of low hanging fruit there. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing This might amuse you. I am not at all sure what to make of it. The best I can do is irony. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Ha! Did you enjoy your complimentary tutorial on egg-sucking, grandma? :)) DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:13, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing It was quite delightful 😈 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing I got another one, different this time! What did I do to deserve so much fun! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:09, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

You almost have to admire that "I know you're experienced and I'm new here, but let me tell you how this whole thing works" chutzpah, though. :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:56, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing Oh I am. My admiration knows no bounds. I suspect a fellow lawyer. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:58, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

As long as you appreciate someone generously giving of their time to educate you... -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing Time spent in education here is never wasted 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Editor experience invitation

Hi Timtrent :) I'm looking for people to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 10:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft:David "Feet" Rogers

Hello, this is in reference to the following article that I'm writing:

Draft:David "Feet" Rogers

Your First critique regards my references. Please be specific and tell me which references do not pass your muster.

My References include:

1) Troutman, John (2016). Kika Kila: How the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Changed the Sound of Modern Music (1st ed.). USA: University of North Carolina Press. pp. 206–225

--John W. Troutman is Curator of American Music at the National Museum of American History. This book is independently published by a reliable source. Futhermore, there IS significant coverage of David "Feet" Rogers in that book, as there are many references.

2) Ruymar, Lorene (1996). The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and its Great Hawaiian Musicians (1st ed.). Anaheim, CA: Centerstream Publishing. pp. 88–106. ISBN 978-1574240214.

--This is an independently published book and it considered an authoritative source and historical document of Hawaiian Lap Steel Players. There IS significant coverage of David "Feet" Rogers in that book, as there are many references.

--Both of these above mentioned books are listed as sources in this accepted wikipedia article of Alan Akaka.

3) The University of Hawaii archives. This is predominant academic institution in the State of Hawaii.

4) Honorees » HMHOF". HMHOF. Retrieved 2023-07-09. This is the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame. David "Feet" Rogers is an honoree and inductee to the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame.

--The Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that was established in 1994. They have a board of directors with 12 prominent members amongst the politics and business community of Hawai'i.

Honestly, I went through this same issue with another editor, Theroadislong . He helped me in making my references much stronger, and they passed his approval after many edits.

I have read the Wikipedia guidelines and am very familiar with them, and I argued these very same issues with Theroadislong.

Please be specific as to exactly HOW these references do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people).

Especially seeing as how the wikipedia article Alan Akaka uses many of the same references, please explain to me how the references are adequate in the approved Alan Akaka wikipedia page, but they are not adequate for the page I am trying to create.

Your Second critique regards using the word "Notable" in the title of a section of the article.

--If you take issue you with that, and all I have to do it take out the word "notable", I'm am happy to do so.

I just want to assure you that I have nothing personal to gain financially nor otherwise in creating this article of David "Feet" Rogers. I have never met the man, and he died in 1983. I just want this humble Hawaiian man who has significantly contributed to the music and culture of Hawaii to have a small place on the internet, and on Wikipedia's platform so that future children of Hawaii and Lap Steel lovers around the world can easily find out and learn about the man who played lap steel on so many prominent and beloved recordings of Hawaiian music.

Thank you for your time. I truly hope that I can get this article approved and finalized.

Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 16:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thepublicschoolmusician I cn tell you for sure that Youtube is deprecated as a source.

Please look ar your chosen references with the eyes of a critic. One does not even mention him. AT cleats one is a passing mention, none that I have been able to access have significant coverage. All you have to do is too prove that he passes WP:NMUSICIAN and resubmit it for editing.

Forgive the brief reply. I have been travelling all day and am tired. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:41, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I edited the article and took out all the words "Notable".

I did not add any references.

David "Feet" Rogers was included in 2 separate and independently published books, University of Hawaii archives, recorded on an album of Hawaiian music by National Geographic in 1974, and is an inductee to the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame.

Please explain to me in detail how any of these things are NOT significant by your measure. And please explain how they do not meet Wikipedia's guidelines. It is my firm belief that these measures ARE significant, and that they DO meet Wikipedia's guidelines. Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 16:49, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Mr. Tim Trent, if you want me to take out the YouTube link, I'll be happy to do so.

It's a direct link to the 1974 National Geographic recording of David "Feet" Rogers playing the song Hilo March. And it has his name on the album.

Furthermore, ALL of my references cover David Rogers. You said (presumably) "At least one is a passing mention". Which reference are you talking about? If you are giving editorial feedback, please be specific.

You claim that "none that I have been able to access have significant coverage". Well, sir, I would say that you would have to purchase these 2 books like I did and read them to verify significant coverage: Troutman, John (2016). Kika Kila: How the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Changed the Sound of Modern Music (1st ed.), and Ruymar, Lorene (1996). The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and its Great Hawaiian Musicians (1st ed.). Anaheim, CA: Centerstream Publishing. pp. 88–106. ISBN 978-1574240214.

I can assure you, I own these 2 books and they have significant coverage of David Rogers.

Furthermore, I own the DVD of the documentary of the Sons of Hawaii, and there is significant mention of David Rogers. Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 17:03, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tim.

If you are referring to this University of Hawaii article: https://digital.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/music/artists/pahinui, yes there is no mention of David "Feet" Rogers.

This is a reference for Gabby Pahinui. Gabby was mentioned in my article as someone David "Feet" Rogers played with. It's more of a reference for Gabby within the article to prove that Gabby was a real person and significant in his own right.

Should I remove this reference?

As per Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles guideline #6, "Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles"

Gabby Pahinui is extremely notable. He is amongst the most prominent and loved Hawaiian musicians in history. Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 17:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thepublicschoolmusician I may revisit this tomorrow. But you can tell what is and is not a passing mention. You don't need me to tell you that.

If you feel he passes the criterion, please resubmit it, Someone else will be along to review it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:21, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Mr. Tim Trent,

I just want to thank you for your quick replies, and your feedback.

I just noticed that my Wikipedia article was approved! Thank you so much. In some small way, I know that this humble Hawaiian man will be remembered, and now it will be easier for future children of Hawaii and Hawaiian Lap Steel enthusiasts to learn about this man and his significant contribution to the music of Hawaii.

Happy Holidays! Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 18:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thepublicschoolmusician I’m glad it all worked out. I was too tired to be any real help today 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:56, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tim! I do have a follow up question for you.

I will be going to Hawaii next month, and spending time with friends of David "Feet" Rogers. I would like to include a picture of Feet for this article. Any pictures I have submitted before were taken down.

If I am given a picture of Feet Rogers by the original copyright owner of the picture, how can I post that picture to this article in a way that Wikipedia approves? Thepublicschoolmusician (talk) 21:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thepublicschoolmusician please see WIkipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. That gives you all the information you need. Thank you for asking before trying to upload. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:52, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Done.

I reduced the Cite Bombing Adambenji (talk) 13:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@Adambenji Thank you. When you are ready, and only when you are ready, please resubmit it for review. Another reviewer will review it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you for putting me through. You're the best. Adambenji (talk) 13:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey

Just a personal takeoff. I want a copy of Queer Me. Van Mastashat (talk) 01:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Mastashat You should be able to find it at mybook.to/Qme which links to the Amazon site nearest to you. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you for asking me. I'm afraid the link is blocked here, but paste it into your browser and all will work.

The WikiJaguar Award for Excellence

		The WikiJaguar Award for Excellence
		For prolific stalking of user talk pages, never for drama, always for the benefit of editors. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@Chris troutman You are more than kind. Thank you 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 23:04, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@Chris troutman. Wow! I have looked at the examples you have chosen. You have gone to a great deal of trouble, worth far more than simple thanks. But simple thanks are all I have. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 23:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

The Africa Report

FYI this was undeleted at REFUND recently due to it being a soft-deletion. Just a courtesy heads-up given you were the last AfD nominator, and may wish to re-nominate. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 20:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@Daniel There has been no change, so I have nominated it again. Perhaps a consensus will form this time around. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:46, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

All good, and agree on both fronts for what it's worth. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 21:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Question

hi Tim how you doing. hopefully well.

can you see community resolution side there is no progress at all I think they're having hard time to translate things. I want to know how does voting system works if someone had voted in favour or against how I can know or how I can know-how many against and in favour are voted - maybe you could tell me abit about it thanks 🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 21:16, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint The system works thus:

• It is not a ballot. Majority does not win the day except by coincidence
• This will run until at least 4 December. If no consensus exists it may be extended for a maximum of two further seven day periods
• The !votes (the ! shows it is not a vote, and is shortened for an expressed opinion) are judged usually by an administrator, but not always. The expressed opinions are considered, both to keep and to delete. If eventually there is no consensus it is kept by default, without prejudice against a future renomination.
• If kept it may still be nominated for deletion after the passage of some time. The discussions are meant to be independent of each other, but people may refer back
• If deleted then it may be recreated, but only if it is substantially different form the deleted version. It is wise to use Articles for Creation for this purpose, and to leave significant time between attempts, perhaps no less that a year
• All opinions cast are in the discussion, transparently. One may not canvass for additional !votes, and it is always discovered. I do not imagine you would consider this, you strike me as a fair minded person.
• If anyone at all disagrees with the outcome they may ask for a deletion review. The only grounds for overturning the closing decision is if policy and process has not been followed.

Does this help? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes. exactly thank you for explaining this. I just wanted to understand how this thing works as I'm figuring out a couple of things on Wikipedia. 🙂 Wikipedia commons is what I'm now trying to understand next SaneFlint (talk) 00:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

appreciates it. without your guidance I wouldn't come closer to learn more things All the best SaneFlint (talk) 00:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint Commons is similar to Wikipedia, but has very strict rules about what may be uploaded. It will protect a copyright holder a well as it can, so any doubtful files are deleted, c:COM:PCP applies to any doubtful pictures. Wikimedia Commons also protects itslef against claims of breach of copyright, so ts processes are rigorous.

The deletion process there has very few participants, often the nominator and an admin only, but anyone is welcome to give a policy based opinion. Opinions that are not policy based, for example, "But this picture deserves to be seen" are ignored.

You will find its rules on Commons, as well as a help desk. If in doubt, use the help desk to ask before uploading.

The world of copyright is very difficult and very simple at the same time. Ask "Would my white haired old grandmother approve of me if I uploaded this file?" It is assumed that granny is 100% law abiding! If she would have even the slightest doubt, do not upload the file, or ask at the help desk first. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

there are some letters I have obtained from some press members. which has very historical value and importance. I was thinking to put them on commons to publish. which was also about same personality I wrote an article about but I'm not sure if it's acceptable SaneFlint (talk) 10:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint For that you need specialist advice. I cannot give that, it is outside my expertise 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

yes I asked theroadislong maybe he can advice me or theteahouse I think will be a good side to ask about thus subject :) SaneFlint (talk) 10:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint c:Commons:helpdesk is the right place to start. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

thank you SaneFlint (talk) 10:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

hi

I was trying to post the letter known as Qasida on commons but during upload my account kept getting logged out. don't know if it's a bug or glitch?) SaneFlint (talk) 15:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint I have no idea, I'm afraid 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:24, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I think I'll try with web browser thankss SaneFlint (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

The letter which was presented in 1923 remains to be only one original letter. there was no copy of it being published.it contains 8 pages while I have uploaded 2 of them. SaneFlint (talk) 15:51, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

It is still the date of the death of the author which is significant. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I'll check about his death. but where I'll be posting his date of death ? death of author should have a website link? I'm not sure if there will be any link or website post about his death but possibly I can know from some press members who authorise about biographies works SaneFlint (talk) 15:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

It should form part of the file information on Commons, something I have already edited once to correct two fields. You need to explain there the date of death of the author. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Let me get the author date. Thanks for fixing captions 🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 16:05, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

hi

I have kept three pics with captions added properly. but I just kept them there as to shade lights on the subject to know there is authenticity even its Unreliable. I really.hope editor's will review those Urdu references and verifies them.

one more thing I want to remind is that when they will write subject name in urdu on Google it will show more information about him. subject has article on Wikipedia Urdu as well. SaneFlint (talk) 08:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

https://ur.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%86_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%DB%81_%D8%B4%D8%A7%DB%81_%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%AF%DB%8C

if it wasn't notable it wouldn't have a article on urdu Wikipedia but both English and urdu holds different policies I think. 🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 08:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint The Urdu and English articles are now linked. See left hand margin. If you notice, no-one is saying "Delete" though no-one is yet saying "Keep". This is not a typical deletion discussion. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

exactly 💯 I hope we will clear out this matter. Probably, some editors are having a hard time due to references in Urdu, but they will figure out these things.

I was asked not to add more things as it will make them delay in a process of verifying references so I decide to keep three pics and wait for guys to review

I hope for the best. I SaneFlint (talk) 08:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I cannot predict the outcome. I am hopeful that we will get at least "No consensus" because I doubt it will achieve a full "keep". That will be sufficient. However, the process is not always predictable.

I suspect it will be re-listed for a further period.

If you are able to add more references that meet WP:42 (shorthand!) in the meantime, that is the thing which will create the fun argument for keeping. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

true. I'm afraid that most reliable and full sources are found in a urdu or Sindhi language. which is a problem for English editors to translate. like currently we are having troubles with the translation.

I have couple books written about article subject. which are mainly written in urdu and Sindhi but poor courage in a English side is very bad.

like one article says in last line of article that, "Today these Pirs of Sindh are either absent or on the margins of our history books*

https://www.awazthevoice.in/culture-news/sufi-pirs-of-sindh-were-bedrock-of-gandhi-s-movements-17976.html SaneFlint (talk) 09:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

If the sources are compliamt with our needs, the language is not any problem at all 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

sources number 1 2 - 5 are very important and should be analysed. as they contain whole chapter story about subject which I wrote on Wikipedia, editor's were focusing mainly on English sources. I hope its time to confirm these sources as well🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 09:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

hi hope you're doing well.

I have a question

as afd has been extend to more days with no consensus. there has been no updates from editor's

what I should do 🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 12:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint Absolutely nothing. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

another question

I found a page which was a victim of afd deletion due to no response from early creators now I have built it back from the scratch

is it OK for me to rebuild a page which was deleted for being abandoned?) SaneFlint (talk) 12:11, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badi%27_ud-Din_Shah_al-Rashidi?wprov=sfla1 SaneFlint (talk) 12:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint I see every reason to have done so provided the references show it to be notable 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

yess))

and

Biographies articles are Unreliable?

someone said this I'm curious about it :) SaneFlint (talk) 12:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint it depends upon the media the biog is published in. Is it reliable and is it index;endent of the subject 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

thanks for your assistance 👍🏻 👍🏻 SaneFlint (talk) 12:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Can I ask you a question ?

I just feel something SaneFlint (talk) 21:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

It's OK for someone to share another subject afd link to the one someone is commenting on? 🙂 [ not me] but someone did that's why I felt to ask if it's permissible or not SaneFlint (talk) 21:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

SaneFlint If there is legitimate interest in it I believe it to be permissible 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

exactly 💯 SaneFlint (talk) 22:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi

can you help me with one thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badi%27_ud-Din_Shah_al-Rashidi?wprov=sfla1 as you can see it has instructions of translating from its another language Wikipedia pages I want same instructions on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ihsanullah_Shah_Rashdi?wprov=sfla1

that would be great SaneFlint (talk) 11:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

{{Expand language|otherarticle=سید احسان اللہ شاہ راشدی|langcode=ur|}}

is it correct?🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 11:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

SaneFlint If that is the correct article in Urdu than it is correct. I've surrounded it with <nowiki></nowiki> tags to stop it from "acting" on my talk page.🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

sorry I was copy and pasting that keyword suddenly it appears with long note In a chat.

and sure that article has some information which might extend to English one but I left it for community to see for now :) SaneFlint (talk) 13:20, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint That is because the {{}} element is syntax which embeds another file, in this case a template. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:23, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

it's been over 18 days since I've joined Wikipedia, i have learnt a lot with your assistance,

I was able to fix many dead articles, and some were reported for citations, too,

recently, I've fixed an article that was showing completely wrong details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_Mangho?wprov=sfla1

now is in a correct form,

I'm now checking 5 to 10 articles on a daily basis to catch and spot fake or with not enough reference to prove its existence [notability] SaneFlint (talk) 13:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint This is a great thing to do, and is also good fun. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

yesss.

and I think editor removed one or two pages which I had uploaded from qasida - Tribute. he claims there was no mention of the subject but

translation shows name on first line

https://ibb.co/p4ZS4jd

I have sent him this but he's has not responded to it 🙂 SaneFlint (talk) 20:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sayyid_Ihsanullah_Shah_Rashdi&diff=1189410683&oldid=1189383363&variant=en SaneFlint (talk) 20:23, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint One can do-nothing about such things 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

yes I agree

there was a confusion between a title * Pir Jhandey wala* which was used for father and son both on many chapters but I explained it there SaneFlint (talk) 20:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

how do I add this template {{ Translated|ur|سید احسان اللہ شاہ راشدی }} on a subject talk page 🤔🤔 just there is a notice to add but I'm trying to figure it out though. I did something on a subject talk page. I'm not sure if it's the same thing SaneFlint (talk) 20:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint you just add

{{Translated page|ur|سید احسان اللہ شاہ راشدی|small=no}}

Below any banners on that talk page, at or near the the top of the talk page 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I've been using Wikipedia application I can hardly see anything except making a comment on page comment section SaneFlint (talk) 22:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

last more thing before I go to sleep.

can you see I have added an quote there

it's reference link is reliable ? I have put screenshot link there too just to help editor's to point where to look at SaneFlint (talk) 22:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaneFlint The app is poor. The browser interface is best. I will look in the morning 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 23:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Review of Draft:Colin Bloom

Hi Timtrent,

I hope you are well

I noticed you reviewed my submission for the article on Colin Bloom. Having been rejected a couple of times I have made edits accordingly, however you seem to have rejected my submission again on the grounds that the person's DOB is not externally referenced. Could you please explain why this is the case, and what kind of reference this would require to be validated? Having read many Wikipedia articles I have not come across articles which reference the date of birth - it seems to be taken for granted, or inferred by the surrounding information. In terms of validating the person himself, there are plentiful sources which I have referenced.

I look forward to hearing from you

-- The LegendaryBossMan -- TheLegendaryBossMan (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@TheLegendaryBossMan one of us is confused. It seems to me that it is not I. Have you read the review I left? I see no mention by me of DOB. It was the second reviewer who mentioned it.

When you have read what I said please come back and ask about anything you do not understand in the review.

And rejection is not the same as a decline, which means it has been pushed back to you for further work. Rejection means it will not be considered further. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 23:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Johnel

I just declined the draft, again, honestly I think one more ref could meet NMUSIC but I am not sure, you seem to have looked into it further, any advice? Also, I take a particular ire towards paid editing in general. Seawolf35 ^T--C 23:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

@Seawolf35 I hold paid editors to a much higher standard, probably higher than is required. Good paid editors are fine, those using us to learn their trade, not so much.

He might meet NMUSICIAN, but that is the subjunctive! To pass he must meet it. I can't see it yet, but maybe someone will. I'm not sure which criterion he passes. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

C. John Wilder

Thanks very much for your review of the draft page for C. John Wilder in August. At the time, I mistakenly posted an older first draft that didn’t include all of the sourcess and duplicated sourcing in other places. My apologies. I’m sure it was difficult to isolate the qualifying in-depth independent reporting about Wilder because of my mistakes. I brought the page back to my sandbox to do a complete rewrite based on your feedback (and using my later draft0. It is here: User:W12SW77/sandbox/Wilder.I’ve included a comment at the top that highlights multiple in-depth stories about Wider. Please also note that Wider was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. Under AfD guidelines WP:NBUSINESSPERSON, pages about Fortune 500 CEOs should generally not be deleted because Fortune 500 CEOs are not ordinary business executives. I wonder if you have any feedback? Since this version and the version from August have have very little overlap, I omitted the previous AfC review, but I can add it back if that’s preferred.. W12SW77 (talk) 19:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@W12SW77 I would suggest that you re-add the AFC review history. An uncharitable reviewer might siggestthat not doing so looks like an attempt to game the system. I do not believe that is what you are doing.

The item you quote is neither guidelines nor policy. It simply explains common outcomes at WP:AFD. It suggests that they are kept, not that they be kept. Referencing must show them to be worthy of retention. If they are presented as WP:ROTM then that is how they will be judged from that article at that time.

As long as your references are suitable I see little problem, but you are paid to get it right. Forgive me, then, if I do not advise you on this draft. I do not feel in any way interested as a volunteer in helping you to earn your crust. You should be able to create drafts that are accepted at once. That is why you are hired. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for participating in AfC November 2023 Backlog Drive

		The Articles for Creation Barnstar
		Thank you for your participation in the Articles for Creation's November 2023 Backlog Drive! You made a total of 357 reviews, for a total of 463 points. – robertsky (talk) 06:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

– robertsky (talk) is wishing you Happy Holidays! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user Happy Holidays, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Happy holidays}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

– robertsky (talk) 06:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Seasonal greetings!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2024!

Hello Timtrent, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2024. Happy editing, ~~ αvírαm|(tαlk) 09:55, 25 December 2023 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Please help me

Hi, regarding the draft I made, please review it again? Chiyemi (talk) 05:03, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I think the article is much better, as time goes by I will continue to develop it. please move the draft to the main article, thank you Chiyemi (talk) 05:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Chiyemi I do not re-review drafts, nor do I review on request. Please just resubmit in the normal manner and await a review 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

hi, very happy to hear your reply. Today I was so busy that I forgot the draft I made. Then what about the draft, should I move it myself to the main room, or develop it in the draft room, please provide a solution so that the article is not deleted in the future. Chiyemi (talk) 13:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Chiyemi Just submit it for review 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmong New Year (Hmong Noj Peb Caug)

Hello,

This reply is for article that is said Hmong New Year (Hmong Noj Peb caug). This is also to say that I am not agree to merge my article that is said Hmong New Year to the other one that is said Hmong_Customs_and_Cultures's article. This is because they are totally different from one to another, especially in Hmong community. Only new borns of today are saying they are the same thing.

The proposed article does not have sufficient content to require an article of its own, but it could be merged into the existing article at Hmong_customs_and_culture#Hmong_New_Year. Since anyone can edit Wikipedia, you are welcome to add that information yourself. Thank you.

First of all, I want to talk and discuss with you about the Hmong New Year and Hmong_customs_and_cultures. I think you don't see the difference between them. From then on, I want to let you know that there is a difference between the two terms and events. One is the family event like marriage ceremonies, shaman ceremonies, greeting guest ceremonies, and moreover. As for the other which is Hmong New Year, it is for all Hmong people. It is a Hmong national/international event/festival celebrated once a year. Anywhere if there are Hmong people living, they would celebrate it. Please check it with Google search in typing "Hmong New Year". Besides, the person who wrote the article of “Hmong_customs_and_culture” that you cited above should be a newborn the day before yesterday in Hmong community. He mastered neither the Hmong language, nor Hmong customs, nor Hmong culture. He mixed up all kinds of Hmong customs and culture to Hmong New Year including Hmong shamanism. He speaks as he hears without knowing what the terms “Hmong customs, culture and New Year in Hmong” mean. Speaking about Hmong New Year, it is a celebration festival. It happens/celebrates only once a year. As for Hmong_customs_and_culture, people can do it whenever they want when they like. This is a kind of family events/ceremonies, not ike Hmong New Year. However, in Hmong community, each Hmong group has its own custom and culture. Only in Laos, there are more than dozen of Hmong groups and clans. They are split by White, Green, Black, Dou, Leng hmong, and more. In each community, people practice differently their customs and culture with the others. Among the White Hmong, they do their customs differently from the Green Hmong or the Black Hmong. The culture is totally different for everyone. Everyone does what they want and when they like in their own way.

I know that you and I were born in different countries and also in different cultures. When you went to read that morons write nonsense in their thoughts and articles, and then you believe it's the same, or makes more senses. Let me take an example, don't confuse "rice" with "noodles". although both dishes are prepared with rice, they are different. It's exactly the same thing for spaghetti, why not call it noodles like the others? Are they prepared with the same material base? For my part, I don't believe it. Actually, you can say what you read, but whoever wrote the Hmong_customs_and Cultures article must be a child born in the 21st century. He should not know about Hmong customs and culture, especially their way of life within the Hmong community. For me, the New Year is a national holiday among the Hmong. Otherwise, the Hmong should not celebrate it in almost the same way and at the same time. Have you typed “Hmong New Year” into Google search to see what that comes up with? One thing I want to mention about the "Hmong New Year" celebration, if you have a chance to see the pictures and photos/videos and then read the articles that some young people have written about the Hmong New Year, I want to tell you that there are There are a lot of things that people didn't do before, especially in my time, in the 1950s, or in other times, but young people are doing it today. That's why New Year's has changed and become a kind of state fair or flea market. It’s no longer the New Year’s party like before. Thank you if this helps you.NruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 05:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@NruasPaoYPP Than you for your message. Please place it im the formal merge discussion. Placing it here is useless 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your review, especially on my article of Hmong New Year. I am here to say that the Hmong New Year is a bit different with Hmong_customs_and_cultures. The 2 things are different from one another. The first one , Hmong_customs_and_culture, it's more about family ceremonies and events that they are doing daily or weekly or monthly. When a family hires a shaman to come to do marabou at home for a person sick, it's also called customs and culture. When a Hmong parent declines her daughter to marry a black/white people, it is a problem of custom and culture in Hmong. This is not Hmong New Year. I think there is a problem of culture and education between you and me. You were born in western country, Christmas is part of your religion then it's important to you. You may celebrate it as you like, not me. I don't think Christmas is New Year for you. But Hmong New Year is my Hmong people annual festival which celebrates each year almost at the same time in all corners of the streets where there are Hmong people living. I think the misunderstanding is about culture and education. You can assume what you like and say what you want, but the Hmong New Year event is not the same as Hmong_customs_and_culture. If you want to merge my article Hmong New Year to Hmong_Customs_and_culture, then you would also need to merge the Wikipedia Spaghetti article to Wikipedia Noodle page too. Why? This is because they are the same. Don't you know that spaghetti is from Rice flour. Spaghetti is cooked by baking based on Rice flour. From there, it's rice. Why calling it spaghetti? This is originally Asia foods, not italian. Why don't you say nothing about this? Do you know who is Marco Polo? This traveler had traveled into Asia in 1271. When he returned home, he then brought the noodle receipts with him to make profits in Italy and moreover thereafter. Now what do you say about Wikipedia Noodle and Spaghetti pages (articles)? is this need to merge together like Hmong New Year and Hmong_customs_and_culture? Thanks NruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@NruasPaoYPP I am really not of the same opinion as you are. Please place your comments in the merge discussion. Placing it here is useless. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you help me how to put it in the merge discussion page? ThanksNruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 00:57, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@NruasPaoYPP put it at Talk:Hmong customs and culture#Draft:Hmong New Year (Hmong Noj Peb Caug) 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hmong_New_Year_(Hmong_Noj_Peb_Caug).

The link showing above is my article Hmong New Year . Can you help me please? In addition, would you like to take a look on it please? The comments showing below are the reasons that I am not agree to let you merge my article Hmong New Year to the the page or article that is said Hmong_customs_and_cultures. This is because they are different from one to another.

Hello, This reply is for article that is said Hmong New Year (Hmong Noj Peb caug). This is also to say that I am not agree to merge my article that is said Hmong New Year to the other one that is said Hmong_Customs_and_Cultures's article. This is because they are totally different from one to another, especially in Hmong community. Only new borns of today are saying they are the same thing.

The proposed article does not have sufficient content to require an article of its own, but it could be merged into the existing article at Hmong_customs_and_culture#Hmong_New_Year. Since anyone can edit Wikipedia, you are welcome to add that information yourself. Thank you.

First of all, I want to talk and discuss with you about the Hmong New Year and Hmong_customs_and_cultures. I think you don't see the difference between them. From then on, I want to let you know that there is a difference between the two terms and events. One is the family event like marriage ceremonies, shaman ceremonies, greeting guest ceremonies, and moreover. As for the other which is Hmong New Year, it is for all Hmong people. It is a Hmong national/international event/festival celebrated once a year. Anywhere if there are Hmong people living, they would celebrate it. Please check it with Google search in typing "Hmong New Year". Besides, the person who wrote the article of “Hmong_customs_and_culture” that you cited above should be a newborn the day before yesterday in Hmong community. He mastered neither the Hmong language, nor Hmong customs, nor Hmong culture. He mixed up all kinds of Hmong customs and culture to Hmong New Year including Hmong shamanism. He speaks as he hears without knowing what the terms “Hmong customs, culture and New Year in Hmong” mean. Speaking about Hmong New Year, it is a celebration festival. It happens/celebrates only once a year. As for Hmong_customs_and_culture, people can do it whenever they want when they like. This is a kind of family events/ceremonies, not ike Hmong New Year. However, in Hmong community, each Hmong group has its own custom and culture. Only in Laos, there are more than dozen of Hmong groups and clans. They are split by White, Green, Black, Dou, Leng hmong, and more. In each community, people practice differently their customs and culture with the others. Among the White Hmong, they do their customs differently from the Green Hmong or the Black Hmong. The culture is totally different for everyone. Everyone does what they want and when they like in their own way. I know that you and I were born in different countries and also in different cultures. When you went to read that morons write nonsense in their thoughts and articles, and then you believe it's the same, or makes more senses. Let me take an example, don't confuse "rice" with "noodles". although both dishes are prepared with rice, they are different. It's exactly the same thing for spaghetti, why not call it noodles like the others? Are they prepared with the same material base? For my part, I don't believe it. Actually, you can say what you read, but whoever wrote the Hmong_customs_and Cultures article must be a child born in the 21st century. He should not know about Hmong customs and culture, especially their way of life within the Hmong community. For me, the New Year is a national holiday among the Hmong. Otherwise, the Hmong should not celebrate it in almost the same way and at the same time. Have you typed “Hmong New Year” into Google search to see what that comes up with? One thing I want to mention about the "Hmong New Year" celebration, if you have a chance to see the pictures and photos/videos and then read the articles that some young people have written about the Hmong New Year, I want to tell you that there are There are a lot of things that people didn't do before, especially in my time, in the 1950s, or in other times, but young people are doing it today. That's why New Year's has changed and become a kind of state fair or flea market. It’s no longer the New Year’s party like before. Thank you if this helps you.NruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 05:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@NruasPaoYPP Than you for your message. Please place it im the formal merge discussion. Placing it here is useless 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 08:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your review, especially on my article of Hmong New Year. I am here to say that the Hmong New Year is a bit different with Hmong_customs_and_cultures. The 2 things are different from one another. The first one , Hmong_customs_and_culture, it's more about family ceremonies and events that they are doing daily or weekly or monthly. When a family hires a shaman to come to do marabou at home for a person sick, it's also called customs and culture. When a Hmong parent declines her daughter to marry a black/white people, it is a problem of custom and culture in Hmong. This is not Hmong New Year. I think there is a problem of culture and education between you and me. You were born in western country, Christmas is part of your religion then it's important to you. You may celebrate it as you like, not me. I don't think Christmas is New Year for you. But Hmong New Year is my Hmong people annual festival which celebrates each year almost at the same time in all corners of the streets where there are Hmong people living. I think the misunderstanding is about culture and education. You can assume what you like and say what you want, but the Hmong New Year event is not the same as Hmong_customs_and_culture. If you want to merge my article Hmong New Year to Hmong_Customs_and_culture, then you would also need to merge the Wikipedia Spaghetti article to Wikipedia Noodle page too. Why? This is because they are the same. Don't you know that spaghetti is from Rice flour. Spaghetti is cooked by baking based on Rice flour. From there, it's rice. Why calling it spaghetti? This is originally Asia foods, not italian. Why don't you say nothing about this? Do you know who is Marco Polo? This traveler had traveled into Asia in 1271. When he returned home, he then brought the noodle receipts with him to make profits in Italy and moreover thereafter. Now what do you say about Wikipedia Noodle and Spaghetti pages (articles)? is this need to merge together like Hmong New Year and Hmong_customs_and_culture? Thanks NruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@NruasPaoYPP I am really not of the same opinion as you are. Please place your comments in the merge discussion. Placing it here is useless. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 15:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Can you help me how to put it in the merge discussion page? ThanksNruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 00:57, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank youNruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 01:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@NruasPaoYPP Writing these great walls of text here is not going to achieve anything. I have now shown you how to use the discussion page. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:45, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmong_customs_and_culture mainly concerns the whole culture including customs, ceremonies, festivals, religion, and then other beliefs of a group of people like you and me. So the Hmong New Year is like Chinese New Year, Vietnamese New Year that is called Tiet. They are all accepted in Wikipedia pages, why not the Hmong one? Therefore I don't see what is wrong. About the Hmong, the Chinese, and the Vietnamese people, they do celebrate their New Year once a year as I know and as it is said in Wikipedia pages. But you don't. Even you, westerners, do it is different from us. This is why I said celebration is not called the same.

However, if you can take a look on wikipedia pages such as Wikipedia Chinese culture, Wikipedia chinese new year, Wikipedia Chinese custom gold, can you tell me why they are not merged together in a single article? Why they are accepted separately? What is about Vietnamese new year Tết (Vietnamese: [tet̚˧˦]), short for Tết Nguyên Đán? Why it's accepted? From there, Hmong New Year should be accepted as others.

In the Hmong_custom_and_culture article that you cited, have they been talking about the Hmong New Year for over 900 years? Tell me the names of the writers who wrote articles about the Hmong New Year and cited in the Hmong-Customs_and_culture article. I could miss their links, but I didn't find anything. Tell me the authors or the links of the pages where I can take a look on it please.

ThanksNruasPaoYPP (talk) NruasPaoYPP (talk) 02:54, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@NruasPaoYPP Go to the history tab of the relevant article. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:44, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Request for review: Frank Slootman

Hi Timtrent. You added Template:Paid contributions to the Frank Slootman page on July 31, 2023, a couple hours after I submitted it to Articles for Creation. @CNMall41: apparently agreed, rejecting the page for promotion and excessive detail on November 1, 2023, about three months later. I took both of your feedback to heart and made large cuts/rewrites to the page shortly afterward in November (see e.g.), resulting in the new version of the page being approved out of AfC by @WikiOriginal-9: in late November of 2023.

Since the page was reworked after you added the tag, I was hoping to see if you felt the page still "may require cleanup" and if so what issues there are that need to be fixed. You can see more context at: Talk:Frank_Slootman. Despite the allegations there, I have always disclosed my conflict of interest and I made large cuts after you placed the tag, as indicated in the dates and links provided above. Still, I'm committed to addressing the substance of the tag if there are any issues, especially if I have introduced any content that is not in conformity with Wikipedia's rules.

Thanks in advance for your help if you choose to chime in.Kiwikarma19 (talk) 22:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kiwikarma19:, thanks for the ping. You stated on the talk page you made the disclosure on your userpage but I do not see if. Please do so and ping me again. I will take a look at the page and clean up anything necessary. Cheers!--CNMall41 (talk) 22:14, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kiwikarma19 I agree with CNMall41. If we cannot see it it is not present. If you are paid please do not edit an article in mainspace that you are paid to edit 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41: Neither myself nor anyone else from Snowflake has ever edited the live article. This can be verified in the article history here, which shows no significant edits since it was approved at Articles for Creation.

There has been a disclosure on the Talk page using a standard template and a disclosure on my user page since July 31, 2023, the day I created my account. I have also disclosed in the two posts I've made here and on Talk respectively.

Just now, I put the disclosure on my user page in giant bold font. Can you confirm that you have each gone to my user page at User:Kiwikarma19 and the disclosure is not there on your screen? I may need to go to the Help Desk to find out why other people can't see it. It shows just fine on my screen. Kiwikarma19 (talk) 00:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kiwikarma19 That is not actually true, though. See this edit. Full transparency is important. Neither myself nor anyone else from Snowflake has ever edited the live article is not full transparency

What you need to do is to comply with all aspects of WP:PAID, not your own special interpretation, and cease from dissembling in your statements about it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

The conflict of interest guideline further advises editors to supply a clearly visible list of their paid contributions on their main user page. Please do so if you would like me to respond to your request for review. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

draft:Ancient Egyptian Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine

I would be happy to have help with this subject. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy My time on Wikipedia is limited at the moment but I am happy to offer such help as I am able. What particular areas are you looking for help in? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Just trying to get it to articlespace. FloridaArmy (talk) 20:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:AJH (disambiguation)

Hello, Timtrent. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:AJH (disambiguation), a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 12:06, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Request for Feedback on Draft:Troy_Bronson_2024

Dear Timtrent/Fiddle Faddle,

I hope you're well. I read through your user page standards and understand your policy of not reviewing drafts on direct request or more than once. I value your time and efforts to Wikipedia.

With this in mind, I'm writing to offer the Draft:Troy Bronson 2024 and its talk page debate, where I've sought to clearly highlight the subject's importance. While I'm not asking for a review, I'd be glad for any ideas or input you can provide on the notability issue.

Your knowledge and viewpoint would be invaluable, and while I recognize this may not fall under your standard engagement criteria, I thought it was worth reaching out. Of course, any degree of input or even a quick look would be really appreciated!

Thank you for considering my request and your continuous contributions to the Wikipedia community.

Draft:Troy Bronson 2024

Best Regards,

EagleSleuth~~~~ EagleSleuth (talk) 20:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@EagleSleuth I am sorry. I am taking a wiki break right now. I an unable to help you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Michael De Santa

Hello, Timtrent. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Michael De Santa".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! ☘️ King ᚺᛒ ☘️ Talk, Guestbook 20:43, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@KINGHB190 Not mine. Looks like a redirect from an accepted draft? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Seems to be. I think this message was automatically sent as a formality when I submitted the article for deletion as you are listed as the first editor. ☘️ King ᚺᛒ ☘️ Talk, Guestbook 21:27, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I declined the speedy as redirects are exempt from WP:G13 deletion. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:7DCC:BBFD:FADA:4719 (talk) 21:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@KINGHB190 the IP editor makes a valid point 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Marcus Pearl

The article Marcus Pearl has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Reliant on primary sources.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Not mine. Prod endorsed 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Request to delete draft of Stiven Mikhail.

Hello sir, I submit to Stiven Mikhail's drafts every time But Stiven Mikhail's draft is declined every time.Please help me fix this draft.If Stiven Mikhail's draft is not fixable So please delete Stiven Mikhail's draft as soon as possible.It will be your great kindness. Gairathimonikagairathi (talk) 07:24, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gairathimonikagairathi I have no idea what you are talking about. However, if you wish a draft to be accepted and it is about a living person please note:

For a living person we have a high standard of referencing. Every substantive fact you assert, especially one that is susceptible to potential challenge, requires a citation with a reference that is about them, and is independent of them, in multiple secondary sources which are WP:RS, and is significant coverage. Please also see WP:PRIMARY which details the limited permitted usage of primary sources and WP:SELFPUB which has clear limitations on self published sources. Providing sufficient references, ideally one per fact cited, that meet these tough criteria is likely to make this draft a clear acceptance (0.9 probability). Lack of them or an inability to find them is likely to mean that the person is not suitable for inclusion, certainly today.

Your job is to show that the person is notable. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey :)

Good to see you, it's been a while! Hope all is well? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:01, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing I'm only half back. I stepped away for a while to stop getting addicted. Glad you've been looking after the place while I've been away! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:04, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, better have you half-back than... umm, prop or hooker! :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:06, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing Love it! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

AfD

I thought you should be informed that P. J. Sudhakar is at AfD, following a short Wikipediocracy thread from which I learnt that you were the one who accepted it at AfC 10 years ago. Apart from that ... glad you're still around, even fractionally. Yngvadottir (talk) 23:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

@Yngvadottir Thank you. I am definitely a fraction at the moment. I have a personal policy of making either no comment at all on of making a neutral comment at AFD where I am the reviewer who accepted a draft. Wow, 10 years ago. If it was not up to standards then why woudl it not have been nominated 10 years ago? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 06:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)