User talk:ThePromenader/Archive 1 2014 October
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Paris, suite
Il y a eu quelques mots sur la fr:WP à ce sujet, bistro du 14 octobre. Je vais porter un peu d'eau au moulin.
Si on peut toujours arguer que la Défense n'est pas dans Paris intra muros, que la Tour Montparnasse n'est pas significative, il est assez curieux d'ignorer que Paris est la capitale politique d'un pays, d'ignorer le métro parisien - la carte de la RATP est probablement le second symbole de la ville, après la Tour Eiffel mais sans doute avant la pyramide du Louvre ;)
A titre de comparaison, les photos montages de Berlin, Londres, Washington DC incluent des photos du Reichstag, du Palais de Buckingham, de la Maison Blanche...
Enfin, comme déjà noté sur la page française, chapeau au photographe pour obtenir des images sans humains et sans voitures. Il y a encore beaucoup de curiosités sur ces photos, mais je laisse le soin aux anglophones de les analyser pour rester un observateur curieux de la situation, sans prendre part plus avant au débat.
Ce montage me rappelle de manière frappante la venue de connaissances des États-Unis, qui ont été surprises de voir que Paris n'est pas un parc d'attraction, mais bel et bien une ville, dont la première ressource n'est même pas le tourisme... A bientôt v_atekor (talk) 10:16, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- Peut-être peut-on continuer ce discussion sur Talk:Paris? En tout cas, merci! THEPROMENADER 17:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- Volontiers, mais soyez tolérant avec mon anglais... ;) v_atekor (talk) 19:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- Comme vous avec ma français ; ) THEPROMENADER 21:00, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- Volontiers, mais soyez tolérant avec mon anglais... ;) v_atekor (talk) 19:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Bonjour Promenader,
Je me laisse souvent emporter par les mots, celà étant, je pense que la situation est très mal vécue par beaucoup de Français, mais aussi d'Européens. Paris n'est pas la seule ville dans cette situation ; je suis plus barcelonais que parisien, et il est un peu rapide de traiter l'article du Monde par dessus la jambe, c'est un journal très consulté et très suivi... Donc, je participerai, si les intervenants sont de bonne volonté, et s'ils sont d'accord pour accepter leurs erreurs (j'en fais moi même beaucoup ; Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum ). D'accord pour intervenir, à mon niveau, mais dès qu'un consensus sera trouvé pour pour photo, et un consensus dans lequel, faute d'être en accord total, je ne serai pas en complet désaccord. Il y a déjà eu un article sur un journal pour un photomontage, et je ne tiens absolument pas à faire la Une du Monde ou du NY times lorsqu'il y aura un débat sur le plan. On commence par cette photo, on verra pour le reste ensuite... v_atekor (talk) 17:04, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- If you don't mind, I'll answer in English here - I was made fun of enough for today ; )
- Don't worry too much, and I'm Canadian, so what the hey (okay, I live here, but that's why I worry too much too). Don't worry about the Le Monde article either, it was nothing but a 'fait divers'... and the reporter didn't really know much about Wikipedia. He didn't know what an 'aire urbaine' was, either, which really made me laugh (okay, that's irony about something here, and a side-story)... but if you know the facts, it's okay, and I research and re-reference even what I do know as I write. And the entire point of working together is catching each other's back (mistakes)... avoiding the perseverare diabolicum part, what ; ) THEPROMENADER 17:35, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- BTW : I read the Barcelona article which is mainly in the same position : it doesn't mention ... the harbor (which is in the Zona franca de Barcelona out of the administrative limits of Barcelona because of a special status (international zone, transit...) but obviously the harbor of the town... v_atekor (talk) 17:26, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- Don't pay too much heed to the 'mysterious ulterior motives' insinuated over the past days... the content is there already, it was just a fight over language. How is it possible not to speak of a city without its dependencies? Yet a few wanted to say that those dependencies were the city, for example saying "La Defense is in Paris" instead of saying "Paris's La Defense district, 2km to the west of the City". There were other weasly ways of going about that, like including detailed text about suburban things (remember, this is the 'Paris' article) without ever mentioning that they are in the suburbs... or farther. I haven't really read the article lately, but I think those problems are a thing of the past, and that photo was a last-ditch attempt at pushing that 'misleading language' agenda (because a picture is worth a thousand (unreferenced) words ; )... that's actually a good sign, come to think of it. THEPROMENADER 18:02, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- I agree almost all you write, and I think we can reach a good and neutral article together. I hope other people working on it will also pay more attention to the city as a whole than his own particular point of view. I absolutely don"t want to fight with anyone, I have too much work to do here with Spanish painters and architects for that, so I will leave the work on such problems. (I have near 20 FA on my counter, after 10 years working I am sure of one thing : don"t fight, just wait for the fighters to disappear... ). Even with this, I know my words are going far away than necessary, the heritage of 3 Latins languages maybe ;). Nice to learn you are Canadian, I though you were an us French teacher or something like that. I know some people from Calgary, at the north of the north. v_atekor (talk) 19:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- I really wouldn't worry about other editors, it's the content that speaks for each. Those who do disrupt normal editing (through reverting, unconstructive criticism (or absence of criticism), absence of explanation, insults, other underhanded tactics) at best seem suspect and at worst shoudn't be here at all. Thanks for the kind words, though ; ) THEPROMENADER 21:59, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- Quod erat demonstrandum... I did worry, and, I really don't want to be a scapegoat for them. So, as indicated in the other pages, I am working on several other subjects, you are really welcome if you want to help me (us). Most is translated from Spanish and Catalan, and then enhanced with several references you can find in English, French or whatever, as usual. I did hope to do the same here with Paris, it seems that will be reported for a future time. v_atekor (talk) 13:53, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
- One thing about Wikipedia that many forget is that there's no "me" in the text the reader reads, just the text. And for sure there's a bit too much "me" going on in the talk pages right now. ; )
- Just do your thing, sir, and I'll let you know when things get going. In the present light of things, I don't think it will be for a while, though. Meh ; P But take care. THEPROMENADER 14:52, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
- I agree almost all you write, and I think we can reach a good and neutral article together. I hope other people working on it will also pay more attention to the city as a whole than his own particular point of view. I absolutely don"t want to fight with anyone, I have too much work to do here with Spanish painters and architects for that, so I will leave the work on such problems. (I have near 20 FA on my counter, after 10 years working I am sure of one thing : don"t fight, just wait for the fighters to disappear... ). Even with this, I know my words are going far away than necessary, the heritage of 3 Latins languages maybe ;). Nice to learn you are Canadian, I though you were an us French teacher or something like that. I know some people from Calgary, at the north of the north. v_atekor (talk) 19:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
- Don't pay too much heed to the 'mysterious ulterior motives' insinuated over the past days... the content is there already, it was just a fight over language. How is it possible not to speak of a city without its dependencies? Yet a few wanted to say that those dependencies were the city, for example saying "La Defense is in Paris" instead of saying "Paris's La Defense district, 2km to the west of the City". There were other weasly ways of going about that, like including detailed text about suburban things (remember, this is the 'Paris' article) without ever mentioning that they are in the suburbs... or farther. I haven't really read the article lately, but I think those problems are a thing of the past, and that photo was a last-ditch attempt at pushing that 'misleading language' agenda (because a picture is worth a thousand (unreferenced) words ; )... that's actually a good sign, come to think of it. THEPROMENADER 18:02, 19 October 2014 (UTC)