User talk:Sbharris/archive13

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Archive #13 Messages from 2013.

DYK for Florbetapir (18F)

The DYK project (nominate) 12:02, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Greetings!

Hello there. I saw your essay at User talk:MastCell, and I wondered if (as a way to put something good into a repository) you might be interested in this concept, which has gotten us this and what version you now see. Happy New Year! Biosthmors (talk) 21:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Question for you

Hi Sbharris! A comment you made recently at the 'alt med' talk page made me question my understanding of exactly who uses what definition of CAM; I thought I would just quickly ask you about it here. I hope this does not offend you? In this edit you mention that the "the "Cochrane/BMJ" definition is not that, but rather....a 1995 definition by an "expert panel" at NIH's "Institute of Alternative Medicine" or IAM". There seems to be multiple reliable sources with conflicting information?

• This source that says that it is the definition of CAM adopted by Cochrane Collaboration. I do not have the full text, so perhaps there is a caveat in the discussion about this being developed by IAM, but only used by Cochrane?
• This source attributes the exact same definition to the Institute of Medicine, 2005?
  

My assumption is that you also have a source that says it is from the NIH's IAM in 1995? Any ideas how we should deal with contradictory sources? or perhaps they just all use this same definition? Thanks and best regards, Puhlaa (talk) 04:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

We've already had this discussion. I gave you the link: [1]. If that doesn't take you directly to the end of archive 21, just go down to the last proposal and read the discussion to the end. You're third from the last poster. The quote goes back to 1995, and originates from an "expert panel" in a discussion hosted by the Institute of Alternative Medicine. Your second source-- This source actually says all that, and then gives a different source for the boxed quote (Institute of Medicine, 2005) in the box! I think that's a simple error. Either that, or the IOM adopted the same language 10 years later, which I think is unlikely. SBHarris 05:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I remember where we were discussing the definition, but I still cant find where we discussed why the definition was attributed to different organizations by different sources? and I didn't recognize how you verified that it was originally from the OAM in 1995? Either way, I see now where this source actually says "The widely-accepted theoretical definition of CAM (see Box 1) was arrived at by the Office of Alternative Medicine (OAM) expert panel at the Conference on CAM Research methodology in April 1995." Thanks for pointing that out. This still does not explain why the BMJ source attributes this definition to cochrane, but I am satisfied that the definition comes from OAM in 1995. Thanks for your patience. Puhlaa (talk) 05:46, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Appreciate your perspective

I've been paying passing attention to the discussion at Alternative medicine. I've always been annoyed that the overall tone of the article, and much of the discussion, assumes that all modern medicine is evidence-based and that all alternative medicine is wacko. It was very refreshing to see your informed comments. Thanks. TimidGuy (talk) 21:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

YGM

Hi. I emailed you. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 08:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Re your question on diffs

[2]

Medical practice

Looking around a bit, with curiosity stirred by the Alt.med. article, I came across a wayback discussion at Talk:Evidence-based medicine 10 January 2007 in which an editor remarked : ... science at best tells what you can do, not what you should do. Medical practice is very often about what people WANT. Science AT BEST only tells them what they can perhaps GET, at what COST (in money and risk). So there's always that gap in any praxis (technology, medicine, engineering, art) that needs to be filled from philosophy and practicality.... [3] . This nicely stated what, in my view, is a sound basis for the current revising of Alt.med. After a series of recent edits, in the current version, EBM has been omitted from the "definition" in the first sentence, but is retained with a link in the "definition" for CAM, and again under "Misleading use of terminology", "Ineffective and misleading statements on efficacy", "Prevalence of use" and "Appeal". It would be helpful to me, a newcomer to the Alt.med. topic from September (and no expert plain vanilla), to be advised if those mentions of EBM are well-made. Can you help? Qexigator (talk) 09:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

COM frame

Would you care to respond to my note at the article talk page?--Ilevanat (talk) 22:50, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Now that you have ventured into the article, would you care to read more comments?--Ilevanat (talk) 00:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Isotope #Even and odd nucleon numbers

I will not start a quarrel over the table. Just notice that your edit [4] removed the most important link in the entire section. You certainly need a bit more attention when you try to "fix" something in articles. Or, possibly, it will be less error-prone for you to create an original content? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 13:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it. We all make errors, whatever we do. I made an error in accidently erasing the new main article ref, and then you youself made grammatical errors in reversion of it, which then had to be fixed (Dirac66 got to it before I did). We're human. The more original content one contributes, the more errors one will naturally contribute. Since I've possibly written more of this article than anybody else, and certainly at least as much as most, and certain far more than you [5], naturally many of the errors that remain in it now, will be mine. So sue me. When you write more of some article (any article) than anybody else, you'll have the same problem.

I'm not interested in fighting over the table. As explained in the revision, I don't care what the table looks like, so long as everybody's browser can read it. The original of that table isn't mine, BTW, though the latest numbers in it are. I have no proprietary interest in it, or anything else here. Come up with an alternative that works and I'm happy to use yours. SBHarris 21:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Fukushima "disaster" (discussion)

Your talk page entry of March 21 is kind of a classic. With a lot of work (on your part of course! :) this could be turned into an essay. Like the lead might caution editors about using emotionally charged words without sound basis; don't blindly follow media. But your writeup was pretty npov which is why, IMO, it deserves a wider audience. (I'd rather have it in the MOS as a proscription, but I will settle for whatever I get, I guess! :). Thanks. Student7 (talk) 19:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I did leave a comment at the "Disaster portal" talk page, [6] but probably hardly anybody will read it.

If you think it's worth discussing perhaps I can repost on the TALK page for the MoS. Of course, this wouldn't be a MoS proscription without some discussion, but a discussion is worth having, as we have a WP where you can read about the Hindenburg disaster and there is no Titanic disaster (though this and worse maritime disasters are listed, they aren't called disasters in their articles, Titanic is formally only Sinking of the RMS Titanic). We've cleaned out nearly all disaster titles from the maritime stuff, but it still plagues the newer tech articles, ala recentism. Still, we have more mine disasters and men have been dying in mines as long as at sea.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and I think I will post some note at TALK:MoS. SBHarris 20:57, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Okay, there are two logical places for MoS naming guidelines TALK where I could post the proposal, and I have done so: [7]. Each place has a link to the other. Now we just have to see what people think of it globally. Consistancy has never been one of WP's strong points. In fact, there's a really stupid essay called WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS that actually contradicts itself! Nobody cares. SBHarris 00:16, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Alas, it is often hard to get opinions. MOS seems widely watched, so hopefully, you will get a few. Try changing the guideline! That will merit a "few" choice remarks!  :)

And yes, not many editors will use an essay, but I often use a few, selected ones as do other editors. Student7 (talk) 18:53, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You can see how it's going: [8]. What would I call the essay? How about: The disasterous use of "disaster" in WP article names. link WP:DISASTER SBHarris 21:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea of including the word "disaster." Would WP:NOTADISASTER be equally appropriate? Could use both, I suppose.

The title is a good working title. Why not? Thanks again for your efforts. Student7 (talk) 21:18, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Please do me a favour

Hi, since you are a registered user on Wikipedia and the page is semi protected to non-registered users like me, please do me a favour and update Wikipedia on the page on Scurvy (the disease) as per my below comments on that article's talk page:

The article states in the fifth paragraph (just before the list of contents): "Vitamin C is widespread in plant tissues, with particularly high concentrations occurring in citrus fruits (oranges, lemons, limes, grapefruits), tomatoes, potatoes, cabbages, and green peppers." While the part on citrus fruits is correct, tomatoes, potatoes and cabbages are relatively low in Vitamin C and contain MUCH less than oranges (50-80% less than oranges). See the table on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources

Additionally, even oranges are only moderately high in Vitamin C and not "particularly high". Traditionally, oranges have always been viewed as being high in Vitamin C, but there are some much better examples that could have been used in the article. For example, according to the same link on Vitamin C I posted above, there are quite a few commonly available fruits & vegetables that have a lot more Vitamin C than oranges, such as guavas (4 times as much as oranges), red peppers (almost 4 times that of oranges), parsley (3 times as much), kiwifruit and broccoli (twice as much).

The article is protected to non-registered users like me, so please can someone update it ASAP with the facts I listed above (which are already found on the Wikipedia page on Vitamin C).

Thanks. --41.118.253.163 (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Heads up

Just in case you don't get the notification: see this thread I started at WikiProject talk Chemistry. Graham87 06:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice complement and I've tried to add something to the discussion above. "Body mass" and "low birth mass" are gaining in use, and even atomic weight will probably someday be replaced by relative atomic mass. But that day is not now, so meanwhile we call the things by their most common terms on WP. SBHarris 02:05, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Very belated apology and thanks

Hi, this is years overdue: had I not been so new and naive, I would have co-nominated you for the EH FAC - unfortunately I didn't know about co-nominations then, so there you go, I screwed up. But I've always thought you deserved the recognition because you helped a lot and continue to, for which I'm grateful. I've frankly had a shitty year - might send you an email b/c an interesting Hemingway story is part of all that but best left off public pages - and have decided they can classify him as whatever they want. He'd enjoy being classified as male anyway. Anyway, sorry these thanks have taken so long to get to your page. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the consideration. I'm not sure I really know what a FAC conomination is, either, so I haven't missed it. On WP, everybody is sort of equal, whether they know anything or not, and so far as I can tell, nobody has been able to fix that. Do you have a fix? And sure, I would be glad to read any new EH stories. There is always something new about EH. Today I realized that he is almost an exact contempary with my own grandfather, who was born 3 days after EH in 1899. And they were both in Chicago together in 1921, except that my grandfather was a Mormon missionary there, and EH was of course living there writing newspaper stories and trying to figure himself out. I can imagine my grandfather knocking on the door where EH and a bunch of other young men lived, and asking what they knew about the Mormons. Or perhaps later knocking on the door of newlyweds EH and Hadley.

Did you see Midnight in Paris? It had some good lines ("THAT was Djuna Barnes? No wonder she wanted to lead!") and a lot of misses. Mostly regarding Hemingway, who asks Gil if he's ever shot a lion (no, and you haven't either, EH, not in 1925). Now if they'd managed to do EH with the proper lisp on "l"s, it would have been better. "Gir, have you ever shot a rion?" Heh. SBHarris 01:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Couldnt resist

... this ;-) Cheers - DVdm (talk) 20:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

improving terminology of "convert matter to energy" in Mass-energy equivalence

Hi Sbharris, Could you take a look at my new topic at the bottom of Talk:Mass-energy equivalence? Nobody seems to be responding and I don't want to make a unilateral change and then everyone notices. DavRosen (talk) 21:17, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Photographer's Barnstar
	For subjecting a goldfish and crab to the perils of perfluorocarbon. Thank you for your creativity. TCO (talk) 17:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Navboxes on author pages

Since you have over 100 edits at John Steinbeck, you might want to participate in the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Novels#Derivative_works_and_cultural_references_templates regarding including navigation boxes for adaptations of and related subjects to an authors works on the author's bio page.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:40, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Head louse removed section/ deleted the entirety of it

There is no one, and I repeat, no one stupid to believe anyone suggest anyone, and I repeat, anybody who suggest lice help humanity. They live near hair, sucking blood. Logical conclusions suggest they only reduce fitness. As a result, because it is impossible to attempt to repair it, I instead removed it in its entity. --209.188.46.174 (talk) 01:58, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

ANI notification

Hello. Please participate in the current discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Long term incivility from User:BrandonTR. Thank you. —Gamaliel (talk) 19:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

GAR

Lithium, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Re: Why are doing doing this

I simply want the images that I have uploaded deleted so I don't have to deal with the image-nazis around here anymore. They've been pissing me off for years and I've had it with them. Almost all the stuff I've uploaded has been removed already and it's not worth my time or energy trying to fight to keep the few that remain. I've orphaned them voluntarily so they get deleted. If you want to re-upload them under your name, and put them back into the articles, like that other guy is doing, fine, I just don't want them attached to me any longer. Cyberia23 (talk) 05:25, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Make group 12 poor metals?

You are invited to comment on this suggestion (Zn, Cd, Hg → poor metal; Cn → only predicted; 113 → predicted transition metal) at WT:ELEM#Make the group 12 elements poor metals? Double sharp (talk) 05:06, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

George de Mohrenschildt

I'm bringing this up here because I don't want to derail the talk page discussion. I'm quite enjoying watching him try to squirm out of answering direct questions. In regards to the Epstein material, I chopped it because it looked like a generic conspiracy sinister-sounding block quote. If you think it belongs, I support restoring the information without the conspiracy-style block quote. I don't know anything about that incident, so I encourage you to take a stab at throwing in a couple sentences about it. Gamaliel (talk) 17:49, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed reference format for Alternative medicine

Greetings and thank you for your contributions to WP. I have proposed a format for references on Alternative medicine. I wanted to let you know and give you an opportunity to comment here. Good day! - - MrBill3 (talk) 17:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Signpost Report

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Elements for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day! --buffbills7701 20:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Orbitally_Rearranged_Monoatomic_Elements

I can think of no one better fitted that you for keeping an eye on this. Give 'em hell.[9] EEng (talk) 01:05, 9 October 2013 (UTC) P.S. This may help too User:Sloth_monkey/ORMEs

talk to me Goose

Bump. I like the fluorine idea, talk to me more over at Nitrogen.71.127.137.171 (talk) 21:18, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

New username

Hi, Sbharris. Just an FYI that I have changed my username from Sirsparksalot to JCMPC. Since you are on a mini crusade to police the usage of "high-energy bond", I wanted to let you know where you can now find me in case you need some reinforcements. I routinely check some pages where it might be misused, but the articles are long and many, and I don't have enough time to read through (let alone edit) all of the sections that need attention. Maybe the two of us can make more progress together than either of us can alone. JCMPC (talk) 14:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Formation modes of isotopes (nuclides)

Hi. I am writing to you since you are one of the chief contributors to the articles Isotopes of {name of element}. I note that the tables systematically indicate the decay modes of each isotope, but not the formation modes. For example I was wondering where the Co-57 used in Mossbauer spectroscopy actually comes from, but was unable to find this information at Isotopes of cobalt. Nor is it in the lists of radiogenic nuclides (which only includes long-lived isotopes of geologic relevance: 1600 years+) or cosmogenic nuclides. Is there a table somewhere on Wikipedia which allows one to look up the formation mode (or source) of a given isotope? If not perhaps this information should be added somewhere. What do you think? Dirac66 (talk) 15:07, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

No such table that I know of. I had been planning to add such data to the lists of nuclides in stable nuclide (254 nuclides) and radionuclide (34 more), as it's available, plus a few notable cosmogenic nuclides, in the excellent summary of cosmological origins of nuclides given by Anders and Grevesse, Abundances of the elements; meteoric and solar, in Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta, 53, 197-214 (1989). This article (which I don't have) is used for the table 4.2 that occurs on pp. 104-108 of McSween and Huss' textbook Cosmochemistry (Cambridge University Press, 2010) that I do have. Alas, I don't know of any compilation for the non-primordial nuclides like Co-57 which are used industrially. As you see in list of nuclides, there are about 600 of these with half lives longer than an hour, so it's a much harder problem (particularly as you can't just sum up an industrial process with an "R" or "S" or whatever).

In articles we have on isotopes, I've been putting in industrial production methods as I run across them (a good example is in isotopes of iodine). I wish they were all that good! But there are a lot where this data is simply missing, as you noticed in cobalt. Since I haven't even done the simpler work for primordials, I haven't felt much need to go looking for artificials.

If you are any good at tables it would help a lot if you could put the nuclides in stable nuclides into table form, with a column for "origin" and then I can start to load in the cosmic/primordial data from McSween and Huss. That data will eventually find its say into the "origins" sections of element articles, which are not all complete at the moment, and some of which have some old data that could be updated. However, where the synthetic radioisotope info is going to come from, and where it should go, is something I haven't thought about. Clearly there are too many radioisotopes to go into a section in element articles (perhaps a few large use commercial radioisotopes could go in, if any there be-- Co-60, etc). The primordial data could go in the indicated tables in stable nuclide, as it's simple to summarize in table space. Not so for the manufactured radioisotopes. That data can go into isotopes of element X articles, and it's a possibility to tabulate it in some monster stand-alone list article. However, this involves a short paragraph on production for each nuclide, and that makes for a long article, even for just the several hundred (?) radionuclides now on the commercial market. It's not something that can really be done in table form, and interestingly the reason is that there are usually a lot of purification steps in commercial isotope preparation that you don't worry about (by definition) for primordials, which you just describe in situ, occurring messily as they do in nature. SBHarris 19:58, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

OK thanks. I see from the Isotopes of iodine article that the question is complicated so an answer for all isotopes (or even all useful isotopes) will take a long time. No, I am not good at formatting tables, but you could try to find a table in Wikipedia on another subject with the format you want, copy it to your sandbox, and then change the irrelevant data one entry at a time to the correct data until you have the table you want. That's how I attack the editing of LaTeX formulas - it usually works except for the odd error message!

May I also ask what is your best guess specifically for Co-57 which I am curious about? Cosmogenic seems unlikely as what in the upper atmosphere could yield Co-57? Would it be one of the many uranium fission products formed in nuclear reactors?? Dirac66 (talk) 03:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Cyclotron irradiation of iron. [10]. Nearly all industrial isotopes are produced by cyclotrons firing protons or deuterons (popular for proton rich nuclides), by neutron irradiation in reactors (the neutron rich nuclides), or by cleanup of fission products (popular for those products that are large fractions of fission products, like I-131). SBHarris 04:01, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that answers my question about the isotope I was most curious about. I have now added the information with your source to Isotopes of cobalt, so now we have production information for one more isotope at least. Dirac66 (talk) 00:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Vote: Group 3 metals; group 12 as poor metals

• Should our 18-column periodic table show lutetium and lawrencium under scandium and yttrium, instead of all the lanthanides and actinides?
• Should scandium, yttrium and the lanthanides together be coloured as rare earth metals?
• Should zinc, cadmium and mercury be taken out of the transition metals element category and placed as poor metals?

As a member of WikiProject Elements, you are invited to comment and vote here. Double sharp (talk) 14:35, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.