User talk:SatyrTN/Archive 3

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Delany tagging by bot

Just wanted to note that your bot tagged a bunch of Samuel R. Delany pages (including some early work with little or no LGBT content), but managed to miss Phallos. No need to reply, just wanted to make you aware of the oversight. --Kdring 02:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll check and remove where not appropriate. Or, better yet, perhaps I'll just ask him which ones he thinks the tags are appropriate for!--Kdring 05:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Oooh! That borders on WP:AUTO, doesn't it? But tell him I'm a fan – not that he knows who I am or that I'll ever meet him, but still... :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:51, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's just regarding a tag, not regarding actual content, and while he may have an opinion . . . Okay, he does have an opinion, but he told me to simply use my best judgment. To be honest, I've been in touch with him about the edits I've done to the pages regarding his work – but such contacts are generally an email to say I've made a major change and ask if he has any comments regarding what I've done. He's always said to write what I feel is right. The only comments he really makes are regarding my use of the language – I use way too much passive voice. And that's not a content thing, it's just style. The content comes from either reading the books themselves (plot summaries) or from reading critical analyses and reviews of his works. About meeting him – you never know. If you make it to New York and walk around the right streets it's quite possible just to bump into him. You certainly can't miss the beard! He's a hell of a nice guy. About LGBT tagging, though . . . What is the criteria for inclusion? Is it material that would only be of interest to the LGBT community (excluding most other people)? Or is it material that, while it may be of interest to anyone, has a certain amount of content that might specifically be of interest to the LGBT community? That will certainly help in deciding what to include/exclude. Chip seems to think the former is the best criteria, while it seems to me that you were going by the latter. Personally, I tend to agree with the latter approach, but I'll work within whatever guidelines are deemed best. Let me know! --Kdring 18:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's a really good question. First, you should know that the LGBT project (which you're welcome to join, by the way - we'd love to have your input) has only really been active for the past two months, so most of our processes and guidelines are in development. In fact, someone raised the very same question only a week ago, and no one has come up with a good guideline. Personally, regarding an LGBT author or performer's work, I think that if a) the work has significant LGBT content, or b) the work significantly impacts members of the LGBT community, then it should be included in the project. The former would be typified by Times Square Red/Blue, the latter by Stars in my Pocket. But that's simply my opinion - your mileage may vary. :)

As to personal contact with Chip, I think you've got it about right. I've been in contact with Nicola Griffith, but only about getting a picture for the article. She's actually been on here, and even done some minor copy-editing, but pretty much stays away from her own article :)

And thanks again for your help! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see Stars in my Pocket . . . (though by Chip's interpretation it wouldn't fit), but what about something like Dhalgren? The main character – Kid – is bisexual, but it's presented in a very matter-of-fact way. There are no real issues to deal with. It just is. If that makes any sense. Or, even more on the margins, Babel-17 – it contains three people in a relationship, but it's certainly not central to the novel.

Getting back to the personal contact thing, I recall getting involved in editing stuff here on Wikipedia because I read the Dhalgren article and thought it was, well, not right. I contacted Chip and basically said "what's up with this?" He wasn't happy with it, either, but what could he do? He said if I thought I could improve things he'd be happy to see what I came up with. So I gave it a shot and got hooked. --Kdring 19:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

If they're major characters, I'd say include them. IIRC, Dhalgren should be included. It's been too long since I read Babel-17, so I can't make a call on it. And it sure is easy to get hooked on WP, isn't in :)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue III - February 1, 2007

Announcement: If someone requests help or feedback on an article, please try your hardest to help them out if you are able. Thank you. Project News The LGBT Portal has once again been revamped and a work rota started. Efforts towards Featured Portal status are slowly coming together. The assessment system has been a great success, we have tagged over 4000 articles! Please tag any LGBT related articles you come across by adding {{LGBTProject | class=}} to the talkpage. Please see the Assessment Department for how to assess an article according to the grading system. The Translation department has changed its focus, to LGBT articles about non-English topics and people on which there may be more information on the relevant foreign Wikipedia. Please add your name if you are fluent in any language other than English. Jumpaclass is picking up slowly, with nine people having entered. With over 2000 stubs we need to improve our article quality. Please sign up and get it going! Challenge another user to see how far you can jump a stub! There is an ongoing discussion about the current LGBT categorisation system here, here, and a little bit here. A special page has now been set up here to deal with this. A Watchlist has been set up to monitor controversial and/or highly vandalised articles. It can also be used for article disputes, just add a note explaining the nature of the dispute. With the influx of so many active members, there is now enough support for a LGBT studies peer review, which may be found here. It's in the beta phase at the moment, so bear with us if we make any mistakes. Feel free to peer review any articles you have been working on. It was agreed this month to start reducing the uses of the Notice board, as many members felt that it was not effective. An open tasks template has been created, bringing together important announcements, FAC/FARs, Peer reviews, XfDs, the COTM, and requested articles. You may desire to watchlist it. A Deletion sorting subpage is also now working to bring together XfDs - this should be bot-driven, but we have not currently tagged enough articles to make this fully automated, so please update the list with any LGBT-related XfDs you come across. Article news Two articles were recently shepherded through the Featured Article process by two of our members - Same-sex marriage in Spain and The Well of Loneliness. Congratulations go to (respectively) Raystorm and Celithemis! Member News We more than doubled our membership this month! 53 new users have joined the Wikiproject: Aleta, Koweja, Profriend, Andrewn, Carolynparrishfan, Cpnlsn88, Brian1979, Tullerk, Garydw, Ganymead, Celithemis, Burnley, Lquilter, Parammon, Forsakendaemon, Allyn, bcatt, Dfeuer, Raystorm, Fabienne1, Esprix, Antanta, Janusvulcan, Elizabeth Lund, Ashleyvh, E. Sn0 =31337=, MiraLuka, White hotel, Zythe, Athena2006, CosmicWaffles, Emiellaiendiay, Musimax, AlexReynolds, Swollib, Nield, Kriza, 100110100, Andral, thickslab, Ronline, Iamvered, FisherQueen, William percy, Viannah, Ssbohio, Ali-oops, Anyaanomaly, Revolución, Ender2155, LuciferMorgan, Kathryn NicDhàna, and Artgoyle. Please make them feel welcome!

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please drop me a line. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

An Automated Message from HagermanBot

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 02:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Speedy delete tags

Please place speedy delete tags on the article pages rather than the talk pages. This will help avoid confusion. Thanks! ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh! Thanks - I didn't know that. Appreciate your help! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

No worries

I'm difficult to offend, and we're all trying to make a better encyclopedia. Avt tor 02:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

SatyrBot and Gender issues in the British theatre and music hall

Thanks for your speedy reply, I will remove the transgender cat on those two performers (I will leave Drag Kings). You might still want to bring it up as a discussion point - both that UK audiences have no problem with cross dressing performers, and that outwardly 'straight' actors should have no difficultly with the roles. Kbthompson 15:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Werdnabot

If you have a little free moment, could you please take a little peek at my talk page to see why that fucking stupid bot isn't archiving my talk page like I ordered it to????? Thanks bunches. :-) Jeffpw 16:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Lol! No, really, I did! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

<looks quizzically at Dev> What are you talking about?

BTW, Jeff, looks like you found the parentheseseses (sp) that were probably causing the problem. I also created the archive page - don't know if it needs to be created first, but it can't hurt. You might want to put that archive-nav thing on the new page. Hope that helps! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you both. Those instructions were clear as mud. Let's hope it works now. Archive nav thing???? <sigh>. sometimes I hate computers. By the way, if you want to, read Philippe Servaty. I'm curious as to your opinions. Jeffpw 16:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I just thought his comment was put in an amusing manner. I removed the parentheses - Jeff didn't read the instructions, the silly sausage.

But, the real reason for my being here. Can I ask you to deploy SatyrBot to update the deletion discussions, peer reviews and article requests on the open tasks template? It's a chore doing it by hand. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought I mentioned? I run the bot to update the open tasks. It updates the full list page, then takes a random sampling and updates the "Articles needing attention" section of the Open Tasks template. Note - it does not update the XfDs section - that still has to be done manually. I'm planning on automating it, but haven't yet. Note also - I've only run it twice and plan on running it once-a-week. That should be enough, don't you think?

Hmm - I only just noticed your comment about the peer reviews and article requests. Can you elaborate a little on those? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

That's the to-do list. The open tasks template is the one that brings them all together. What I was thinking was that your bot could go through the list of peer reviews and XfDs, and add/remove them from the template - for that to be any use though it would need to run about every three days at least. The article requests are listed at Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social Sciences and Philosophy#Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender, and I converted them by hand: it would be good if both lists are kept updated whenever someone adds to either. Seems good? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Where are the Peer Reviews listed? Or does that mean going through tagged articles looking for the "peer-review=" parameter? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Peer review. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Having reviewed the available data, then, the answer is "yes". I'll have to do some coding (oh the horror!) to get that in. Expect it in the next couple days. But it still won't do XfDs. Well, maybe it will. We'll see. :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:05, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:LGBT/Jac review?

So are we all ready? I suggest (since this was a challenge thing) we each review the other three articles on the talk pages and consense to the new ratings - any objections? The four articles are:

• Trembling Before G-d, stub - Dev920 (Have a nice day!)
• Morris Kight, stub – SatyrTN (talk | contribs)
• Declaration of Montreal, stub. WJBscribe
• Anne Fleming (writer), stub - Jeffpw

-- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, someone completely forgot to edit their article... *looks ashamed* Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I say this with love in my heart... OMG! ROTFL!! :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, ole Anne may not look like much, but if you see the diff, there's a visible difference. Jeffpw 22:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

And ok, Satyr, you take the cake. That's a bona fide article. Looks like a B to me. I'd read it now, but I just got home from seeing Willeke Alberti in concert and I have to get up in 6 hours. Jeffpw 22:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Damn, Satyr... we need to hold this competition again sometime. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Of course, FisherQueen has given you a run for your money. Look what she did to Billy Tipton. Jeffpw 23:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, what we could do if we had 100 each of Satyr, FisherQueen, Jeff and Raystorm - LGBT stubs wouldn't exist... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Was FQ (hmm... interesting initials....) participating in the contest? I didn't include hir in my messages on y'alls talk pages - should I? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

She wasn't actually in our challenge, but was doing it at the same time. She jumped from stub to B, which is where I see your article. Jeffpw 05:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Kewl - but that article doesn't need to be reviewed - it's already been done. So we'll announce that as part of the contest. I thought you'd gone to bed!?!? Oh wait - it's been six hours. Never mind. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the edits on the Matthew Shepard page, today.ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 06:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah - it was nothing. The capitalization alone was enough to make me want to just revert his additions, but I saw that nothing would do except his having a bit in the article. <shrug> :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs)

LGBT project

Thank you for your invitation, but my language is Italian, therefore it does not make sense that I contribute in English. Thank you anyway. --G.dallorto 20:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

> From looking over your Wikipedia contributions, I wondered if you might be interested in joining the LGBT WikiProject?

Good evening,

Thank you for the info! My schedule is often sporadic, however I can certainly contribute relevant information on appropriate pages when I can. I often glance back at previous pages I have edited, to see how they are coming along too. I'll explore this great group more!

• G

Thank You

SatyrTN, thank you for the welcome. I look forward to participating in LGBT discussions and I hope I can make contributions to the related topics.

I am curious about something on your Userpage, how did you get that "Status" feature, in the upper right, to show? --Clay 23:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Clay! I stole it from another user page :) You're welcome to steal the code from here, if you'd like! Or, if you don't feel secure in wikicoding, let me know and I'll put it on your page. It's a bit flashy, but I like flashy :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to "Steal" the code, but I was unable to identify it by looking under the "edit" tab. If it isn't too much I'd appreciate some assist here. By the way you have quite a bit of interesting code features that have peaked my interest. I'm hoping I can learn more about wikicoding so I can better dress up my userpage.  :) --Clay 01:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL! I'm a coder by trade, so it comes naturally to me. Let's see - take a look at User:SatyrTN/Status, User:SatyrTN/StatusTemplate, and User:SatyrTN/StatusTemplate2 – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Tim Henman

Yup, isn't it weird that the only good copyright free picture of Tim Henman is one in which he's shirtless? There are two version on Commons at present: Image:Tim Henman Headshot.jpg which is cropped from Image:Tim Henman, 2006.jpg. If you want to check out the original photo its here: [1] :-) WjBscribe 02:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

List MP

From what I know of New Zealand politics they operate a form of proportional representation known as the top-up list. It aims to ensure that votes from people who support the loosing party in a particular constituency still count towards electing someone. So in addition to MPs who represent individual consituencies, each party also has a separate list (or a list per region) of candidates in order of preference. The more overall votes, the more MPs on the list are elected. It makes it harder for a party to get a large majority by winning almost every seat with a small majority. WjBscribe 02:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ack! Politics is weird. – SatyrBot 05:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm intrigued, how do politics work in the land of Bots? Is there a heirarchy? Do you elect leaders? WjBscribe 05:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

<sigh> I keep doing that. The bot guide says you shouldn't do edits that aren't related to the bot's function when you're logged in as the bot. But I keep messing up :) Hmm - maybe I should play up the alter ego? Nah - I'm only thinking about that because I've been tagging Category:LGBT characters in comics. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD

Hi Satyr...I responded on my talk page, thanks...Shaundakulbara 02:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[2] I have to say, I'm not overly happy with this. I know it says No one is telling you how to vote but why does there need to be a specific message at WT:LGBT at all? Its not as if any more sources need to be found. Including it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sexuality and gender is one thing, but on the Project talkpage I think such a notice is likely to misinterpreted. The message is neutral but the audience is bound to be felt to be partisan... WjBscribe 03:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Never mind - you're right. Though sources can always be added - I just added an actual article about Adam4Adam, something that seems to be rare... Anyway, I've removed it (again). – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I suspect that given the DRV/AfD and the Chairboy RfC there are a lot of people watching the project for suspicions of votestacking at the moment. Best not to offer ammunition. Well done on finding that source... WjBscribe 03:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Votestacking

Thanks to both of your for your astute opinions in recent weeks. Since what should and what shouldn't be deemed votestacking is likely to be a subject of continuing concern, I want to offer a perspective. It’s great for people interested in a certain subject give their opinions in relevant debate. Such people should not be deemed any more partisan than people who now nothing about the subject but participate in AfD or other debates as a hobby. I am sure we've all seen debates where there is one camp decrying the content as fancruft or not notable and there is another camp emphatically asserting the opposite. Right or wrong, both sides are entitled to opine. There are tons of folks, myself included, who generally stay away from Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting and other places admins haunt. I don’t even see anything wrong with folks dropping notes to one another saying “we are discussing X in case you want to weigh in”. We know damn well that many people on Wikipedia rally allies to their causes in private emails anyway. I guess if there is a single theme to my thoughts on this matter its support of always including as many people as possible who are interested in and knowledgeable about a given subject rather than leaving debate largely the province of people who are interested in and knowledgeable about Wikipedia business procedure.--House of Scandal 14:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Spain tag

Your comment: If it's okay with you, I'll start today with Category:Spanish culture. There are 49 articles, so that's perfect. In your request at WP:BOTREQ, you said to add {{User WikiProject Spain}} - surely you mean {{WikiProject Spain}}? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, surely, I do mean {{WikiProject Spain}}! Thank you - your bot will magically check to see if there's already a tag there, and if not one there will place one? Whew! EspanaViva 22:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeppers - it's trained well (I hope :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

¡Muy excelente! Please do let me know when you take off the leash! About how long will it take to do these 50 or so once it has started? EspanaViva 23:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm training him at 5 edits a minute, so not long at all :) As to the leash, I have to wait for the approval from the WP:BRFA, which could take anywhere from a day to three. Once that's done, I'll unleash him on all the cats you have there at 5 or 6 edits per minute. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

¡Miau! <- that's what cats sound like in Spain, in case you're curious. I'll be waiting to hear. EspanaViva 02:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ran the trial - see results Special:Contributions/SatyrBot and by looking at any page in Category:Spanish culture. Note that 10 pages in the category already had templates - for example, Talk:Iberian naming customs and Talk:Don Juan. I've reported to WP:BRFA, so I'll let you know when they get back to me. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so very much - I've been through many of the pages listed on the log, and they all appear to have worked perfectly - your creature lives! I understand that it may be a while before you get the feedback about your trial run back - thumbs up from here!

In the meantime, I hope that you'll understand if we continue this project with other bots, while you're waiting for your OK. Don't worry, there will be lots of work to do on this project over the next several weeks! Thanks again. EspanaViva 07:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL - not a problem! I understand :) And thanks for letting me use your project for my trial! When I get the approval, I'll let you know and see where you are in your process. Thanks! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 07:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, that went a lot quicker than I expected! If you'd like, I'll start unleash the bot today and continue tagging the project :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, ooh, yes, please! We're just going to do this a chunk at a time, so if you go to this page, and pick the initial number of categories for a first set that you're comfortable starting with (no more than 50 though), and unleash your beast, let's see how it goes on this first set!

Once that first run is done, let's wait for a bit (say a day) to deal with any "over-inclusion issues" and then run a second batch (again no more than 50), etc. If you want to start with, say, five categories and work your way up, or start with 50 categories right away, you can decide. I would ask that you try to work your way through the list in numerical order (smallest number first), and remove names from the list at the top of the page as they are processed, and add them to the list at the bottom of the page (or tell me which cats have been processed, and I'll move them from the "to be processed" list to the "processed" list).

Any of that make sense?! EspanaViva 01:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, EspanaViva! I'd like to move further discussion to the bot's current project page so as not to extend this talk page too much :) See that talk page for where I am in the process and how I've organized this project. Thanks! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Welcome

Thanks for the welcome to the project and for the swift rating of the article on Bernard Boursicot. I look forward to working on the project.Lisapollison 23:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Bot

I was wondering how your bot processes list for tagging WikiProjects. I have seen some very crude methods and was hoping to help improve yours. Can you please explain your method? Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 18:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Beta! I set it up to take as its parameters a category (or set of categories), a WikiProject template, and a tag to put on the talk pages. Those last two are separate, since the tag may have parameters in it that won't always be there if a page has already been tagged. So then I run through this cycle, using the query.php api:

1. Fetch pages that are in the category
2. For each page, fetch the list of templates on the talk page
3. Check the template to be added against this list
4. If it's not there, then perform the edit to put it at the top of the talk page

That's actually a bit simplified. It's set up to take an array of categories to check, as well as an array of tags / templates to add. But that's the basic cycle.

I'd appreciate your feedback on other methods that might be more efficient! Thanks! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

FOR THE LOVE OF OUR SERVERS please stop. this method is loading a massive amount of pages that are not needed. here is how I processes a tag run.

1. Get all items in given categories.
2. remove and obvious cats that shouldn't be tagged
3. repeat the last two until i have all items
4. then I do a what transcludes here here search

   that gives me a list of all pages that were already tagged and don't need re-tagged

5. then I filter the two list removing everything they have in common.

   that is my setup for a run during the run I do:

6. then Load the page
7. check if someone has added the template since run has started if template is there skip
8. If template is not there add template to top of page
9. save
10. go to next page

doing the pre-run screening can reduce server load and bot efficiency by over 20%. (this makes brion happy). if you have any questions please feel free to ask them. Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 15:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm - good point! I didn't think of pre-screening like that. I've just finished my second run, so I need to stop for a bit at the WikiProject's request anyway. I'll code in the pre-screening before I start any more runs.

Thanks for that - I appreciate it! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Shortcuts.

Can you not simply add the letter of the department to the normal shortcut? So instead of WP:LGBT/Members we have WP:LGBT/M, and so on and so forth. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Grade?

Heya, can you grade Parvez Sharma for Jumpaclass? I'm not sure. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure! I rated it a Start class. It's got good references and looks like the sections on the film and works are good, but it could use a bit more about the person himself. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Bot For Wikiproject Aircraft

Well I guess that you could say that they are all in the aircraft category. There is also the specified form sort of like intro boxes. Ones without information in them could have tags added for aero specs. Aero table would be a lot harder. Looking back it would be too hard to do that part. Message me if you have any more questions. Redskunk 18:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Election notification

Hi. Re: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Coordinator Elections. I guess we should message the membership to make sure as many as possible endorse Dev as coordinator. Is that something your bot can do? Or is there a script that can be used to do it simply? WjBscribe 18:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

If it has to be done by hand, I'm happy to do it. Just let me know. Jeffpw 20:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I know that AWB can do it. I haven't set up the bot to do anything like that. And the only person I know that has AWB is Dev :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I can do it with AWB if necessary, though, really, everyone should have it it's so amazingly useful. What was that you were saying about true democracy, WJB? ;) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

No need. I just hacked an extension to SatyrBot to add notices to everyone on the members list. What do you think of this notice:

== [[WP:LGBT]] Coordinator Election Notice == This is just a quick, automated note to let you know that there is an election being conducted over the next 7 days for the position of "Coordinator" for the LGBT WikiProject. Your participation is requested. – ~~~~

Thoughts? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Making it the same colour as the notice on the top of the main page might be a good idea. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

That's cool. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

That notice looks good, thanks. Go ahead... WjBscribe 23:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:WereWolf

WereWolf left on January 30, 2007, claiming that his homosexuality has one of the reasons why he left. The System 3000 01:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It may be a bit premature to say WereWolf has left. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:LGBT Coordinator Election Notice This is just a quick, automated note to let you know that there is an election being conducted over the next 7 days for the position of "Coordinator" for the LGBT WikiProject. Your participation is requested. – SatyrTN (talk · contribs)

Would I mind.

I will agree to your suggestions when they stop watching me, and making sure that I don't "pull another... stunt", and my name is removed from the Discussion boards by archiving it. Until that time, I will try to remove the personal attacks made against me. Eedo Bee 05:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for archiving that dispute. I will now continue on my way. For the record, I was actualyl trying to apologize earlier in that, but it seemed too many people had made their mind up about me. Eedo Bee 05:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but I suppose if the tables were turned I would react the same way. I just get carried away. Seeing as you're a member of LGBT studies, do you think scissor sisters should be part of it the list? Eedo Bee 06:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Just curious

Just curious why the Eedo Bee discussion was archived. Not that I'm questioning your judgement, again just curious. I was watching the edits and found the AIDS crack highly offensive. Personally I think the project needs to keep an eye on him and his animus seems to need no prompting.ParAmmon (cheers thanks a lot!) 06:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem - curious is okay :) First I asked him if he wouldn't mind moving on. He replied saying he would if the discussion were archived and the group stopped watching over him. I couldn't guarantee the latter, but I could take care of the former. I'm hoping he'll stay true to his word. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Indef blocked now by Proto.[3] — coelacan talk — 10:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The LGBT Barnstar
		I would have thought you had been awarded this already. Perhaps you are hiding your barnstars beneath a bushel basket? Regardless, I am glad to acknowledge the good work you're doing. Keep the faith. House of Scandal 14:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

<blush> Aww, shucks! Thanks, HoS! I've only received one other barnstar, but now I'll be able to put a gallery of them together! Thanks much! And I'm glad to see you active again – here's hoping you resume your wonderful work in DYK and other areas! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Ahem! I gave you two barnstars. Did you lose one already? ;-D Kids today... Raystorm 14:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

OMG!! I'm such a ditz! Sorry, Raystorm! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Eedo Bee

I responded on his page, but I forgot to mention there that you should check ANI. I provided the diffs that eventually got him blocked, and I am glad of it. Sorry you don't think it's justified, but we'll have to disagree on this one. Jeffpw 19:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Replying here because I, at least, am basically a polite person: Jack the Ripper probably helped an old lady across the street once in his life. Adolf Hitler was kind to puppies. Everybody can do something un-hateful once ion a while. That doesn't mean that their basic character is un-fucked up. him tagging articles for us was just one more example. Jeffpw 20:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, hon, I'm not saying that he should be forgiven or nominated for sainthood :) And comparing him to Hitler and Jack probably wouldn't be considered WP:CIVIL, would it?

I honestly think Eedo has some internalized homophobia he's dealing with - consider his fascination with the project, with adding the tags, etc. Combined with the anger and hatefulness, "methinks he doth protest too much". But that's just my opinion, and certainly doesn't excuse the behavior. All I'm really saying is calm down, step away, smell the roses. The anger stirred up doesn't do anyone - you, Eedo, me, anyone - any good. Eedo may have said some awful things, but they're probably not Hitler, either.

Note that I'm not really disagreeing with you in any way - your points are valid, the block is good. I'm just urging a bit of calmness into the situation.

Basically I'm just too nice a person :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

You're a rose, Satyr--It suits you. I'm the thorns, and that suits me, too. Together we make a pretty good package! Jeffpw 20:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

And you're right. Comparing him to Jack and Hitler was uncivil. I hope neither of them were offended! Jeffpw 20:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Awww - a Barnstar and a rose - all in one day! I'm going to blush myself silly! And thanks - without the thorns, the rose would get eaten up in a second :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Delaney

Really, it's in "other facts". It is said that only his friends call him this. It's not really "lead" material. Could be mentioned earlier in the biography section, but it is overly familiar and I think rude to refer to him by it since neither Wikipedia, the editors or the readers are his personal friends. It's a fact, though, but we shouldn't call him by it. IPSOS (talk) 02:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Drats. When I saw the edit summary I thought this was a nice post about Kim Delaney, whom I have loved ever since she was Jenny Gardner on All My Children. Jeffpw 14:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL - ENTIRELY different :) But if you get a chance to read him, Delany's got some great stuff! Sci-fi or non-fiction (among other things). He's one of my heroes! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll check him out! In the meantime, check out Jenny and Greg's beautiful wedding picture, which I've just added to their biography. Oh, what a happy, care-free day that was! Jeffpw 15:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I remember reading about this guy on your page before. He interested me then, and I said I would have to checkout his books. Jeffpw 15:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Your proposal for speedy deletion

Hi SatyrTN,

I'm the creator of the page "Integrality". It's a stub, and I only created it a few hours ago. I wonder what prompted you to tag it. Could you clue me in? Joeldl 09:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Joeldl! Mostly what caught my eye was that the articles looks like a dictionary definition - and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. That link has some useful tips on Wiktionary, where dictionary definitions go, as well as information about how (and whether) the article could be expanded into a real encyclopedia entry. If you feel up to it, feel free to put a {{hangon}} tag on the article and have a go. And please don't let my speedy tag discourage you from creating and/or editing! I spent an hour or two watching new articles last night - yours was a bit of a challenge, since a full half of the articles were silly bios that said things like "John Smith is a cool guy from Springfield, Iowa" :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi SatyrTN,

I'm sure your proposal was made completely in good faith, but I'd like to emphasize that stubs are meant to be expanded beyond just a definition. The criterion for deletion is then "expandability" rather than "already expanded". Also, it appears to me that you are probably not familiar with the technical area — mathematics — that the article was in, based on the unusual array of articles you tagged. I think it's difficult for someone outside a technical area to judge the expandability of an article. Joeldl 00:36, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Joeldl! Actually, I was a math major in college and have a BS in Mathematics, so I'm fully conversant in integrals and their uses and the definition. My reason for tagging the article is that I can't really see much being done to it besides the definition. Also, there's already a ton of information at integral - would this article provide anything different? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 00:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi SatyrTN, Sorry for saying you didn't know anything about math, then. But you've still made my point, because the subject of the article has nothing whatsoever to do with integrals, a more important concept, but one in calculus, not commutative algebra. This should have been clear to most people familiar with math, just by looking at the definition of an element integral over a ring in the article Integrality. Note that I am using integral as an adjective, not a noun. Joeldl 03:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I confess - I only glanced at the definition you gave and automatically applied the word to what I knew.

As you know, I don't have any particular power over what gets an article and what doesn't. And I'm not going to nominate it for AfD because, truthfully, I'm not fond of that whole process. However, I'll be interested to see if you get anything more on the page besides a definition - which doesn't belong on Wikipedia, but rather at Wiktionary.

So don't take my speedy tag personally - I believed (and still do) that it was a definition, so I tagged it. Have fun editing - and sorry if I caused any offense! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Your speedy tag to Apartment (burlesque orchestra)

Hi, I was just wandering through the AfD's and noticed you'd put a speedy tag on an article that was 1 minute old. I know that Wikipedia does attract some dross from time to time, but such a quick repsonse to the creation of an article from a new editor almost certainly comes into the realms of WP:BITE. This also applies to a couple of other tags you have issued this morning. Please do not take this as a criticism, I'm just politely asking that maybe you slow down a bit on the issuing of speedy deletion tags or maybe downgrade some of them to AfD. Regards ^Khukri 14:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right - that one's growing in to an actual article. Is it possible for me to "un-tag" for SD? I just went to the AfD page and noted a speedy keep. Thanks for the advice! I trolled NPP last night for an hour, and you're right - WP does attract some dross! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately people will argue blind that their article on the Apalachian moon ferret breeding characteristics is the most important article ever to hit Wikipedia, but we have to be even handed across the board. You know it's dross I know it's dross, but some of the stuff that appears on the front page did you know? often starts out from these same articles as they've developed. As for untagging if you ever have a doubt, I would just leave a comment in the edit summary and maybe a note on the talk page, or just close it out yourself as a speedy keep. Anyway thanks for the response, and good luck. ^Khukri 16:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Template stuff

Thanks Satyr! You may regret saying those words hehe. ;-) I may just take you up on that offer, coding is soooo boring to me..! I'll let you know if I need help with future templates ok? Cheers Raystorm 00:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Please Help

--Scoreed 08:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC) Hey I am new to Editing Wikipedia (Account has been existent for a while). I am just asking you why the speedy deletion was put on the page "Allco Finance Group" Can you please help me Improve it?

Thanks

Thanks for you quick reply, when tagged I saved and had a break. Do I now Remove the Tag? I will keep working on the page, but can you please help create a template for the company?

Thanks

Scoreed

Turing refs

Hi, many thanks for cleaning up the references on Alan Turing. Unfortunately, some of the references to particular page numbers have been lost; these are quite important when the reference is to a 500+ page book. Any chance you could add them back? I don't have time to work on it right now, regrettably. — Matt Crypto 18:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do - I don't find a quick way to do Ibid's using the {{cite book}} template, but I'm sure there's a way. I'll take care of it - the page numbers are still there, just not showing up. Thanks for pointing it out! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 18:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

That'd be much appreciated, cheers! Looking at [4], I think a couple of numbers have been lost.) — Matt Crypto 18:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that's fixed 'em, but would you check it over? And I wasn't sure about the "cf. Hodges" reference... – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Template

Hey, I've had a go at making a template for the bottom of articles: User:WJBscribe/Drafts. In that form it can probably have the rights articles in it all the time. Please have a look and see what you think.

The question is whether we want to offer an alternative template that takes the form of Template:LGBT sidebar with a Template:LGBT rights element at the bottom of it if the parameter 'rights' is used? Do you want to have a go at such a template- its beyond my coding abilities? That way we can have alternatives and people can choose which looks best in the context of any given article... WjBscribe 02:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at User:SatyrTN/LGBT_footer and let me know what you think. Another option I thought of is to have all the sections, but show/hide buttons for each one. I haven't coded a show/hide, but Dev has some experience :) And I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Show/hides can be done. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting find

Take a look at {{LGBT}}. Looks like someone else had the same idea a long time ago. I think ours is superior though (especially with the features you introuduced). Do we want to use that name or would {{LGBT footer}} be better? From WT:LGBT it appears all that really needs sorting now is the name of the template (i.e. whether it should continue to mention "queer studies". WjBscribe 03:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hunh. Created back in June, used on two pages. Let's take it over, since it's not used much! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 09:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

LBGT Barnstar from WereWolf

		The LGBT Barnstar
		I have seen your edits, and I think they are a big help. So I, WereWolf (talk · contribs · count), am giving you this LBGT Barnstar for your amazing work! WereWolf 03:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Awwww - <blush>!! Thank you very much! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

That AfD discussion

Hooray, now you've commented in it I can refer to it without risk of votestacking accusations. ARGHHHHHHHHH! I can't believe it, I am serious close to loosing my temper with the nom. His last post, with a cite tag!!!!, was clearly designed to wind me up. Surely that AfD won't succeed?!? WjBscribe 04:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and apparently you only mentioned List of African Americans to inflame the discussion! wtf? WjBscribe 04:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering about WP:POINT on this one - what's his history like? I don't know the guy at all. And yeh, my temper's going too. I just can't believe it'll go through! And yes - I pulled the race card! To me, anyway, questioning the importance of sexuality is the same as questioning the importance of race - my opinion, but it's at least worth thinking about :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Going to bed. If I can get to sleep with my blood pressure running this high. Grr. :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Never come across him before. All I can see from his contribs is that its mainly talk and process- doesn't seem to write much. What happened to that {{frown}} template Dev got on her talkpage once? I feel like promoting a bit of Wikihate right now :-). If he thinks that list is indiscriminate he should see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of literary characters with nine fingers!!! I guess I should sleep on this. When I wake up maybe 90% of the !votes will be keeps... WjBscribe 04:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

!votes - you're a coder, aren't you :) And just wait til Dev sees this! She's going to hit the roof! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah that's a point- think of all the work she put into A-E. Lets hope she had a really good Valentine's Day.... Could definitely get messy. WjBscribe 05:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

• hits roof* Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

ROTFLMAO!!!!! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

• Thank y'all for being the first to respond to this farce. It looks like it will probably be saved! Currently 11 against deletion and 7 for. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 14:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

doesn't seem to write much??? look again... jerry_lavoie (talk • contribs • count) Jerry lavoie 04:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

New template

I've copied the new template to: {{LGBT}}. I've left out the queer studies bit pending more discussion about whether the term should be included. Could you add an explanatory note about the parameters? WjBscribe 23:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The da Vinci Barnstar
		Thoroughly deserved for your work in adding the 'parameter' options to {{LGBT}} and other templates. Its great to have someone to do the coding I can't manage :-). WjBscribe 03:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! Though, really, it's what I do, so I don't deserve *too* much praise :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Bot?

Heya, can I ask, yet again, for the deployment of your bot? Could you create me a list of everyone who is tagged or categorised as LGBT that isn't on the LGB list? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

So just people articles? Do I get that from them being in Category:Living people, Category:Disappeared people, Category:Possibly living people, and Category:Dead people?

Then go through that list and find {{LGBTProject}} on the talk page, or within the Category:LGBT tree. Would that pull together all LGBT people do you think? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

We don't have that many people tagged: if you could go through everyone in Category:LGBT people, that would be good. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 18:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused... Go through Category:LGBT people and make sure they're all on the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs)

No, no, no, no, go through Category:LGBT people and create a list of people who aren't on the LGB list. that way we can either add them to the list or remove their category, therefore making everything nicer and more reliable. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Right - sorry - I said that in reverse, but that's what I meant :) Sure - I can probably pull that together fairly quickly. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Does Category:British and English royal favourites really belong in Category:LGBT people from England? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Given every one of those men had sex with their King, I'm thinking yes. ;) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dev920 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

(edit conflict) No it doesn't. It was added to the cat by an IP editor. Actually quite a few of the people in the cat are LGBT people but not all. And those added to the list in future would not necessarily be LGBT people. The category needs renaming if were supposed to read something into "favourites". WjBscribe 20:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) But what about Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough and Abigail Masham, Baroness Masham? I mean, it's not a list of "Gay British and English royal favourites"... – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me, I've always assumed something into royal "favourites". I guess we still need that category reform, huh. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, if this is the worst we find in the LGBT cats, we're golden! :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Here you go: List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/To be sorted – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

You wonderful man:

Award

	Dev920's Award of Honour
	For answering every one of my requests, for your efforts on Wikipedia, and for being an AWESOME human being, you have my affection, loyalty, and respect!

Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

If I had any hair, I'd be blushing right up to the roots :) Thanks! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about Prince of Asturias awards

I've let the people who gave us information know that their concerns will be fixed! Sorry, we misconnected, and I hadn't gotten that far down the list yet! I'll do some more looking now . . . EspanaViva 17:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, EspanaVivi! Sorry for the misconnect - and I didn't check the list at all. That'll teach me! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Namespace

I have moved your page List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/To be sorted to Wikipedia:List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/To be sorted. This page appears to be editing-process-related, rather than encyclopedic content, meaning that it belongs in Wikipedia: userspace, rather than the main space, which is only for articles, lists, and disambiguation pages. — Swpb ^{talk contribs} 21:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Spain removal

Satyr - I've been told that someone is going through and removing many of the WikiProject banners that your sweet bot has been placing, and putting their own WikiProject banner in its place. :( Do you know who would be a good person to tell this to? Here's what was posted on the WikiProject Spain talk page: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spain#Reaction_on_their_part:_.22The_Empire_Strikes_Back.22 EspanaViva 01:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't. If it's a particular person (or people), you can probably go through the RfC process or ANI. If it's another project, you can express yourself on the project's talk page. Or you might be able to go to the WikiProject Council. I'm afraid that's all I can think of, though. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

M'kay - do you know anyone at WikiProject Council that our admins could talk to about this? EspanaViva 01:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, maybe false alarm - I haven't found any WikiProject Spain banners actually removed. I'll let you know if this is something that might need an admin. Keep your fingers crossed! EspanaViva 01:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Your multi-box template

There are some issues with the current code (the parameters should really be renumbered so that the invocation is backwards-compatible with the template currently being deployed), but the major outstanding technical concern relates to the bars themselves: where is the text going to come from?

(And no, leaving it to be free-form entered by talk page editors isn't a very good idea; experience suggests that people will put stuff other than what's expected into any field that allows free-form text entry.)

There are really two obvious alternatives:

• The brute-force approach: a single template (e.g. User:Kirill Lokshin/Sandbox/Template13) that produces valid WikiProject links. This is conceptually easy, but requires that the template be updated for each WikiProject banner to be used in this form.
• The elegant approach: having each banner collapse itself to a single bar (e.g. User:Kirill Lokshin/Sandbox/Template7) with the wrapper template simply providing the shell. This is a cleaner approach, but requires that each banner implement the needed functionality.

(Basically, though, this isn't really ready for deployment on any significant scale, in my opinion. The last thing we want to do is to start a proliferation of not-quite-working "alternatives" that we'll then have to clean up by hand once we figure out what we're actually planning to do.) Kirill Lokshin 23:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I would think so. (Note that what exactly they should implement isn't quite finalized either. In particular, I'd like to eliminate the extra margins that result from using the single-bar version inside another template; this will probably require manually overriding the width & margin settings in that mode.) Kirill Lokshin 00:06, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, the technical work is done. Here's the executive summary, if you will:

• {{WikiProjectBannerShell}} is the outer shell; it takes in a single parameter that's just all of the project banners together, as they would normally appear on the talk page; an example can be seen here.
• The banners inside must be called with a parameter to make them shrink as appropriate; I've decided to name this mode "nested" (as in "|nested=yes").
• The actual size control is done by a new CSS class, messagebox nested-talk. To implement the needed mode, the project banner should be modified as follows: take the table-opening line, which is usually in the following form:

{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-

and replace it with:

{| class="{{#ifeq:{{{nested|}}}|yes|collapsible collapsed messagebox nested-talk|{{#ifeq:{{{small|}}}|yes|messagebox small-talk|messagebox standard-talk}}}}"
|-
{{#ifeq:{{{nested|}}}|yes|
! colspan="2" style="text-align: center" {{!}} [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|Military history WikiProject]]
}}
|-

substituting the correct WikiProject link.

Feel free to proceed however you think is most appropriate. Kirill Lokshin 02:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I put it into Common.css, so it should be available (after a cache purge) to everyone. No promises on whether or not somebody will decide to remove it, though.

As far as finding the most active projects: what you actually want is a list of the heaviest-tagging projects. The easiest way to compile one is probably by going through all the stats pages in WP:1.0/I and seeing which ones have more than a few thousand articles tagged. Kirill Lokshin 02:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The biography one is broken in some strange way; it displays uncollapsed in both cases. I'll try to see what's causing this, but the code is quite messy, so it might take a while.

Other than that, looks good. I don't know if going after the smaller projects is going to be useful, at this point; it may be easier to get some of the bigger ones on board first, before spreading your efforts around too much. Kirill Lokshin 20:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, figured out what the problem is. The little trailing boxes (generated by needs-infobox and something else) can't be collapsed in their current form; they need a valid table header row for the collapsing to work (and, if they don't have one, they break other collapsible tables on the page). In the interests of a quick demo, I've just pulled the code from them; in the long run, though, we need to encourage WPBIO to absorb those things into the main banner itself, rather than hanging a chain of secondary ones off the bottom. Kirill Lokshin 20:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Neat idea, but I would leave the assessment unlinked, as it's competing with the main project link for attention. (Nobody really needs to browse through most assessment categories, anyways.) Kirill Lokshin 22:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I came across this template on the WPBIO talk page. This looks like another great solution (I was a fan of the WikiProjectBanners template, but this is even better). It still looks like this template is under a sort of beta testing. Once it is done, I'd be more than happy to assist making the modification to other WikiProject banners. If you need any help, let me know.↔NMajdan•talk 22:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Nmajdan! The {{WikiProjectBannerShell}} is up and working fine - you can see it in action on Talk:Timothy R. McVey (not the terrorist). The notice I posted on WP:WPBIO (and WPAlbums and WPAustralia) was to see if I could get the "biggest" WikiProjects involved.

With respect to WPBio, that template has some issues to be solved before the "nested" option will work correctly. I believe I posted them in my notice, but the short description is that several of the "add on" sections of the banner are outside the main box. This is fine for the BLP box, but messes things up with the rest of it. So in order to get the WPBio banner nested, some relatively major work will need to be done. For all the other banners I've looked at, adding the "nested" function takes a change of three or four lines.

So to the point, I would say that the Banner Shell is fully functional and stable, but we have implementation issues with WPBio. If you are interested in getting that one to work correctly, that would be simply awesome! – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, great. I probably won't have any free time until Monday. But I will start making the above changes to other WikiProjects banners and I'll take a look at the code of the WPBio banner and see what I can figure out. A complete rewrite might almost be easier. We'll see.↔NMajdan•talk 16:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe check in before you get started - I'd like to see if there are any comments / criticisms / questions before altering many of the banners. – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming you mean check with the WikiProject first before making changes. I will do that. I'm going to start with the College football WikiProject, on in which I am very active on. But I will branch out over the next few days. I'll leave a comment on that project's talk page and see if they have any questions.↔NMajdan•talk 17:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Well - that too. But I want to see if WPAustralia, WPAlbums (and WPBio) have any more feedback - that's what I meant about checking in. If those three (some of the largest) don't have any major concerns, then branching to the other wikiprojects will go smoothly. And if either of us run in to any major concerns, we'll have to let the other know - or I guess we can leave it on the Banner Shell talk page - that would probably be ideal :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:43, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Race

Are you and Dev having some kind of race to see who can welcome new members first? [5] :-) WjBscribe 04:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

OMG! LOL :)

I wouldn't say race - that sounds too official :) But I do check every new member to see if she's gotten there yet :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Some days I do it, some days I let you do it. I try to personally welcome the people I've invited though - I've personally recruited 38 members, which I'm quite happy about. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 04:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, both of you have forgotten to invite that nice young man, Enzedbrit to our project. I have corrected this oversight. He must think we are terribly ill-mannered, not asking him to join. Jeffpw 09:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, hon. Just as a tip, piece of advice, thought for you to process... You might consider inviting people you *aren't* in edit wars with. Just a thought, mind. :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way I think we should "subst:" {{LGBT Welcome}} per WP:SUBST. WjBscribe 03:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeh, I keep thinking I should probably do that. I'll make an effort :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Another thought about the welcome list. Given how long its getting I was thinking that maybe we should make it alphabetical? It might be a bit off-putting for people to feel they're the 100th odd member of the project and suggests a kind of heirarchy from who joined when. I wouldn't have thought it made welcoming people much more difficult :-). I notice that MilHist has an alphabetical member list. What do you think? WjBscribe 09:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I kind of think *not* alphabetical is the way to go. As it is, we have to "fix" an entry maybe once or twice a month. Having to alphabetize people who blindly add their name to the end would happen more frequently - guaranteed. And this is WP - people are used to going to the bottom :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'll keep that idea on hold until Dev is next around to comment. WjBscribe 14:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Is she on a WikiBreak? – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, taking a short break from various Wikidramas. We must strive forth coordinatorless for a little while I'm afraid. WjBscribe 14:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't delete and ask questions later. AFG. Sheesh

Yes, yes. Give me five minutes, for crying out loud. Don't just delete and then leave a message on my talk page. Obviously I'm still working here. See the times?SBHarris 06:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

LGBT template

User:DantheCowMan/working/tsx is my template sandbox, where I improve templates using other templates as templates. Currently I am testing multiple rendering modes of the CCM template against the LGBT template (checking style, functionality, coding, etc.); pay no attention. Dan, the CowMan 15:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

"Nested" was actually what caught my eye about this particular template, so I’ll defiantly let you know when I’ve found the time to implement it. Dan, the CowMan 16:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I have finished (?) implementing the "nested" option. The code is at User:DantheCowMan/working/ts, while the finished product is at the previous link, currently showing several modes. It handles unrated articles more cleanly than the LGBT header (a major issue for some projects) and also shows a flag if the article is the current collaboration. Comments are welcomed. Dan, the CowMan 03:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely awesome! Nice work! Will you be rolling that out for the banner? If so, I'll do a check for where we have overlaps - the current working "nested" banners are WP:INDIA, WP:MILHIST, WP:LGBT. Probably not much overlap between those four, but it's a start :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Rolled out tonight, even stumbled across an two articles that fit the description: Talk:Dennis Jernigan (LGBT+CCM) and Talk:Joseph J. Palackal (INDIA+CCM). BTW, the jumplink for the project is WP:CCM. Dan, the CowMan 07:17, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Helping out with the Unassessed Wikipedia Biographies

Seeing that you are an active member of the WikiBiography Project, I was wondering if you would help lend a hand in helping us clear out the amount of [unassessed articles] tagged with {{WPBiography}}. Many of them are of stub and start class, but a few are of B or A caliber. Getting a simple assessment rating can help us start moving many of these biographies to a higher quality article. Thank you! --Ozgod 22:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Howdy!

Somehow I ended up at your bot's talk page, but I'm not sure how. From there I got to here, and you seem cool from your user page so I figure it'd be rude to not say "Hello" while I'm here. So ... Howdy! Hope you're having an awesome day! - fmmarianicolon | Talk 23:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay - that's the nicest comment I've had on my talk page in days! Thank you very much :) Did my bot annoy you in any way? Maybe put a banner on an LGBT article? Or a WikiProject Spain banner? Or was it just running amok visiting random people's pages? It does that sometimes. Well, not really :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

No, your bot didn't annoy me. :) I found the link; I accidentally clicked on a link referencing your bot in the Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_February_19#Template:WikiProjectBanners. An editor who works on LGBT + Spain + Heroes articles though, that's an awesome combo though! - fmmarianicolon | Talk 21:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey!

See also: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Heroes § Mr._Muggles

I just wanna say Welcome to the Heroes wikiproject! Um, about the Mr. Muggles article, we at the wikiproject created the AFD for the article to be deleted. I was actually the one who found that the article was created and recommended to the wikiproject that it be deleted. Mr. Muggles isn't a notable character for its own article, so it was best to just merge it into the List of characters in Heroes. Anyway, it's good to have you on the team. ^_^ If you wanna help us out, there is a dispute over content that needs a consenus. Check out the wikiproject for details. dposse 03:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sigh - I know... But he's so *CUTE* :) – SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Haha. Indeed, Mr. Muggles is cute. It's too bad he's caught up in such a ugly situation, huh? dposse 17:21, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your kind invitation to join the LGBT wikiproject. Unfortunately, I feel that as I don't know much about LGBT stuff (except a little yuri) I wouldn't be much of a help. I tend to tag articles with wikiprojects, even ones I'm not in, just as a "I don't know much about this subject, but this wikiproject might know more..." kind of thing. -Malkinann 07:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

BtVS

I really don't agree that a show that had three gay characters on it counts as an LGBT show. I love Buffy to bits, but really, I don't think it counts. And I don't see why many of the shows you listed, with the possible exception of South Park and maybe SFU, count either. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, fine you dreadful man, have it your way. :) Btw, just sent off the GLBTRT Newsletter article, should be out March/April sometime. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

GLBT Round Table - it appears to be the American Library Association's equivalent of a subgroup. What were you thinking? :P Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully. Be nice to get some people with immediate access to thousands of books who like referencing in. :) Tbh, I keep forgetting to ask how many people this newsletter is being sent out to. I like to think that some will have their curiosity piqued though! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Jeff Novak Article Deletion

Hello SatyrTN,

I received a message that an article I added over the weekend was going to be deleted. I went over to put a hangon on there and it was already gone. The reason stated in your message was "it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable". Jeff Novak played in the NFL for several years and is one of the few people to ever successfully sue an NFL team for damages. I have seen other NFL players in wikipedia so I thought that he would be acceptable. Was it because I didn't have a source listed? I am happy to include an article on ESPN about his career with the NFL and the lawsuit.

Please tell me where I messed up here. I am rather new to wikipedia and don't want to err in judgment.

Thanks! Spiel 03:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

commons:User:SatyrTN

I assert that I am the same user as commons:User:SatyrTN SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)