User talk:Noclador/Archive 3

Re: OrBat graphic

Thanks for making the graphic! I have a few concerns though. First of all, I'm not aware of a prison guard company in the Home Front Command. Do you have more information on it? It seems strange because I mainly know about MP units. Also, I don't believe that the Erez and Taoz Battallions are subordinate to GOC Headquarters (mazi), but it's possible to check this. Thanks again, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure isn't exactly correct though in the image, and actually globalsecurity has it right. As you can see on the globalsecuty page, the page deals with all ground forces (basically, structure of all combat and combat support forces which are not subordinate to the airforce or navy), not the actual Ground Forces Command (mazi), which actually doesn't have many subortinate units. Mazi is covered in the first part of the globalsecurty page, then it lists northern command units, etc. Therefore you cannot say that the northern command and other commands are subordinate to the Ground Forces Command. The IDF structure is actually very different from the US Army (as far as I know the US Army), because it has many commands, Ground Forces Command being just one of them. There are about 20 commands, such as Ground Forces, Airforce, Navy, Southern, Northern, Central, Home Front, Human Resources, Military Intelligence, Logistics Medical and Operations, Planning, etc. You can see this approximate structure in my previous image.

About the prison guard company, I'm fairly sure that it's also not subordinate to the Home Front Command, but I will find out. There is now just one company-level prison guard unit for Palestinian prisoners in the IDF, in Mali, I think that's subordinate to Ground Forces, not entirely sure. Furthermore, there are 2 battalion-level prison guard units for Israeli soldiers as prisoners, that's Prison Four and Prison Six.

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Great job on that graphic, as usual! And it seems that it gathered some interest that might lead to improvement, which is a good thing. Russoswiss 02:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF_Ground_Forces.png

I'm sorry, but it is full of mistakes...

Ground Forces Command neither above Home Front Command (witch is regional command), nor "Logistics, Medical, and the Centers Directorate". Directoriates should be under Genereral Staff, regional commands (North, Central, Southern, Homefront) should also be under Genereral Staff, and the same with IAF, navy and Ground Forces Command, independently.

Corps should be under Ground Forces Command (except Intelligence Corps, Military Police, Education and Youth Corps, General Corps, Medical Corps, and of course, Sea Corps and Air force). But, divisions and brigades (except those of training, like 828 infantry, 460 armor) should be under corresponding regional command (except Homefront, of course).

It would be great if you can fix that, and then I'll tell you all the rest. There are many more little mistakes, like missing or split units, wrong names...

I thing the png should be removed untill it is OK... Flayer 14:01, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Look, I am in MAZI, I know the structure well, and I'm aware of the structural changes that took place, and those that did not yet took place. Your sources are totally wrong and major thing and in small details. Do you thing I'm telling this to just for fun? The graphics is great, but the structure is just totally wrong, no maters what those magazines write. Flayer 15:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure is like here: [1]. When it is done, you can just put in the regular divisions under corresponding regional commands, brigades under divisions, training brigades under corresponding corps, and so on. And then it would be easy to fix the structure of each infantry brigade, the structure of its recon batalions (recon company, AT company, engineering company, sometimes communication company), structure of the armor brigades, independent units of certain divisions, under regional command level, SF units of the higher level, and so on. Flayer 11:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure here (Israel Defense Forces#Military structure) is correct. Lets start from Northern Command: It has 36th "Gaash"/"Rage" armor division, 91st "Galil"/"Galilee" territiorial division, some reserve divisions, 605th "ha-Mahatz"/"The Crush" engineering battalion, "Shahaf"/"Seagull" field intelligence battalion, alpinist SF reserve unit, and probably some other units.36th "Gaash"/"Rage" armor division has 7th armor brigade "Saar me-Golan"/"Storm from Golan", 188th armor brigade "Barak"/"Lightning", 1st infantry brigade "Golani", artillery regiment "Golan" (not sure about the number), and some other units, including the "Golan" territorial brigade. 7th armor brigade has its Merkava mk 2 battalions (Later i can check the names the numbers), AT company, "sayeret 7" recon company, and and probably some other units. 188th armor brigade has its Merkava mk 3 battalions (Later i can check the names the numbers), AT company, "sayeret 188" reserve recon company, and and probably some other units. Infantry brigade "Golani" has its batallions (names & numbers - later), "Egos"/"Nut Tree" anti-guerilla SF battlion, special/recon battalion, signals company, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, and engineering company (names & numbers - later). Artillery regiment "Golan" has its artillery battalions, one of them with MLRS (names & numbers - later). 91st "Galil"/"Galilee" territiorial division has two territiorial divisions 300th "Bar'am" and 169th "Hiram" - both are reserve infantry brigades, 299th "Herev"/"Sword" druze independent infantry battalion (arguably, it belongs directly to northern command or even directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command) which has a recon "sayeret" company (note that not every SF unit is a "sayeret", "sayeret" means recon unit, so only recon untis should be called "sayeret"), and and probably some other minor units.

Now, Central Command: it has 162th "Ha-Plada"/"The Steel" armor division, West bank territiorial division, some reserve divisions (including 98th "Ha-Esh"/"The Fire" paratroopers reserve division), 601st "Asaf" engineering battalion, "Nitzan"/"Bud" field intelligence battalion, and probably some other units. 162th "Ha-Plada"/"The Steel" armor division has 401st "I'kvot Ha-Barzel"/"Iron Trails" armor brigade, 933th Nahal infantry brigade, 900h "Kfir"/"Yong Lion" designated infantry brigade, 215th artillery regiment "Kala David"/Sling of David", and some other units, including the "Jordan Valley" territorial brigade (sometimes called "The Valley" brigade or "Arie"/"Lion" brigade) 401st armor brigade has its Merkava mk 4 battalions (names & numbers - later), AT company, "sayeret 188" recon company, and and probably some other units. "Nahal" has its batallions (names & numbers - later, one of them is paratroppers battalion), special/recon battalion, signals company, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, and engineering company (names & numbers - later). "Kfir" has 6 designated infantry battalions permanently assigned mainly to West bank territiorial division (names, numbers, assignment order - later), and probably some other units. 215th artillery regiment has its artillery battalions(names & numbers - later). 98th "Ha-Esh"/"The Fire" paratroopers reserve division has 35th regular paratroppers brigade "Flying Serpent, some reserve paratroppers brigades: 226th "Ha-Nesher ha-Shahor"/"The Black Eagle", 551th "Hetzei Ha-Esh"/"Arrows of Fire", 623th "Hod Ha-Hanit"/"Head of the Spear", and some other units propably including "Maglan"/"Ibis" (arguably, it belongs directly to central command) SF unit (which is not "sayeret"), AA parachuting unit (arguably, inside "Maglan") and other. West bank territiorial division has 7 territorial brigades ("Yehuda", "Etzion", "Benyamin", "Shomron", "Ephraim", "Menashe", and "Maccabim") and the "Duvdevan"/"Cherry Tree" SF undercover srike unit (arguably, it belongs directly to central command), and some other units, including some MP units.

Sothern Command: it has 366th "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" reserve armour division, 80th "Edom" territorial division, "Gaza" territirial division, some reserve divisions, 603th "Lahav"/"Blade" engineering battalion, "Nesher"/"Eagle" field intelligence battalion, 33th "Caracal" unisex independent light infantry battalion (arguably, it belongs directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command), 585th bedouin desert recon battalion (arguably, it belongs to any of the 2 territorial brigades or on the other hand directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command), and probably some other units, including a reserve Eilat area CT unit. 366th "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" division has 84th "Giv'ati" infantry brigade, 460th "Bnei Or"/"Sons of Light" training armor brigade (arguably, it belongs directly to Armor Corps Command), artillery regiment "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" (not sure about the number), and some other units. "Giv'ati" has its batallions (names & numbers - later), special/recon battalion, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, engineering company and signals comapny (names & numbers - later). 460th training armor brigade has its training battalions (names & numbers - later). Artillery regiment has its artillery battalions (names & numbers - later). "Edom" territorial division has "Arava" territorial brigade, "Sagi" territorial brigade and other units. "Gaza" territorial division has "Northern Gaza" territorial brigade, "Sothern Gaza" territorial brigade and other units. "Rimon"/"Pomegranate" SF unit was disbanded decades ago. To be continued. Note that I do not expose any undisclosed inforamtion, and I don't know everything. Flayer 14:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF Northern Command.png

Great job! It would be great to merge all such png graphics into one complete graphic when everyhing is done. Minor things:

• Regular engineering battalions (like 605th) not long ago became formally under regional command level (on paper, taken out from the divisions). Can't comment this.
• I'll check later what can I say about Unit 427. Keep it there.
• There is no such armored recon battalion under any division.
• "Sayeret 7" is the one armored recon company of 7th brigde. It is not a SF unit, but an armor recon unit, though fairly capable of on foot operations. Same thing with 188th brigade, but "sayeret 188" is a reserve unit.
• Later I'll check the names of the battalions.
• There is nothing I can say about other units (8200, I-HAWK, target acquisition....)

Flayer 16:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Sayeret 95 Company of the Golani Brigade a reconnaissance unit. Generallly, the role of the reconnaissance units ("yehidat siur" = "YAHSAR" = "sayeret") in IDF is more then just reconnaissance. Such units usually are the prime units of its "mother units". It makes a confusion, 'casue some think that any prime unit or elite unit is a "sayeret" (=reconnaissance unit). Anyway, instead of YAHSAR Battalion we better write Reconnaissance Battalion, and instead of Sayeret ## Company (of Reconnaissance Battalion) we better write Reconnaissance Company. Later I'll get the names and the numbers of most infantry Reconnaissance Battalion and its companies. Aah, and I suggest removing training Btn from the structure. It is not excactly a battalion, rather a training facility... We better remove it. That's all about Northern Command, until I give you some names and numbers (and whatever I can say about unit 427). Flayer 20:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

::Great! "Special Troops Btn" is OK, though we better not call it (untill i find the real names) and its companies "Golani", like "Golani" AT Coy., "Golani" Recon Coy... It's enough one "Golani" inf. br. on top. Typo: name of the art.reg. is "Golan", not "Golani" once more.

• 7th brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 75th btn "Romach"/"Lance"
  • 77th btn "Oz"/"Courage"
  • 82th btn "Gaash"/"Rage"
• 188th brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 53th btn "Sufa"/"Storm"
  • 71th btn "Reshef"/"Spark"
  • 74th btn "Saar"/"Tempest" (just another word for storm)
• 1st brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 12th btn "Barak"
  • 13th btn "Gideon"
  • 51th btn "First Breachers"
  • 351th signal company.

Unable to verify names and nubers of the artillery rgt. Flayer 09:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

• I see 609th "Alexandroni" reserve infantry brigade also belongs to Gaash div. Flayer 09:26, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• 2nd "Carmeli" reserve infantry brigade belongs to 91th ter. div.. Flayer 09:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• Typo: "Hiram" is 769th brigade, not 169th. Flayer 17:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget the updates above, please. Flayer 16:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC) Can't see the updated file yet. Did you upload it? Flayer 16:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF Central Command.png

• 401st Armor Brigade -> 401st Sayeret, sure.
• "Sayeret" Company of Nahal recon Btn. is a recon company, same like in Golani, Giv'ati, Paratroopers...
• As far as know, Maglan and YANMAM are under 98 Div. Maglan soldiers have the same shoulder tag like 98 Div logo. Maglan is not excactly an AT unit, rather SF destruction unit. Moran (possibly 8899) and Meitar (possibly 427) are much more in terms of AT units then Maglan. It is very complicated and mostly classified... In my opinion, it would be better to put both Moran and Meitar SF/AT units under Artillery Corps Command without any comments.

I'll check up later the MP units.

• structure of 35th brigade "Flying Sepent" (no such thing "tzanhanima"):
  • 101st btn "Cobra"
  • 202th btn "Viper"
  • 890th btn "Echis"
  • ### Recon btn "Serpent"
    • (possibly) 5173th recon company "Taipan"
    • #### AT company "Naja"
    • #### engineering company "Coluber"
  • #### signals company "Python" Correct: "Eryx" (Flayer 09:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
• structure of 933th brigade "Nahal":
  • 50th btn "Basalt"
  • 931th btn "Shaham"
  • 932th btn "Granite"
  • ### Recon btn "Topaz"
    • #### recon company "Flint"
    • #### AT company "Gazit"
    • #### engineering company "Sapphire"
    • #### signals company "Agate"
    • #### scouts & snipers company

Flayer 21:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

• It seems like signal company of Nahal is a part of the Special Troops Btn, unlike Golani. Verifying... NOT part of the btn. Flayer 09:49, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• Globalsecurity maybe got it right, but it is still undisclosed info.
• YANMAM (unlike "Maglan") is an abbreviation. Capital letters would be better, I think.
• "Tzanchanim" is a hebrew word for paratroopers, but "tzanchanima" sounds like someone wants to fight with one of them. :-)
• "Sachlab" unit no longer exists, and it wasn't a SF battalion anyway. "Erez" and "Ta'oz" are in the right place.
• I try to verify the territorial assignment of the battalions of "Kfir". Good night! Flayer 23:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Another (the last) reserve paratroopers brigade of 98th div., is 646th "Shualey Merom"/"Sky Foxes" reserve paratroopers brigade. Flayer 09:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
"Jordan Valley" brigade has a number: 417th. Flayer 09:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
"Serpent" ST btn has a number: 5135. Flayer 09:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

401th armor brigade battalions:

• 9th "Eshet" btn
• 46th "Shelah" btn
• 52th "Ha-Bok'im"/"The Breachers" btn

Flayer 17:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF - general

• I think, all of the regular and reserve infantry brigades, except Kfir, should be considered mechanized infantry. But all territorial brigades, except Bar'am and Hiram, should be considered general infantry by definition (brigades responsible for the security of a specific region, is permanently stationed in one place but the individual soldiers are periodically changed). Bar'am and Hiram would be reserve territorial (worth to update the file) mechanized infantry brigades, unlike "normal" reserve brigades, unlike "normal" territorial brigades. Nevertheless, Kfir also can oparate APC's and IFV's if necessary, Golani can also oparate M113 (not just "Achzarit") if necessary. I think, it would be better not to mention which APC's and IFV's they use - they may use any kind of APC's and IFV's that IDF has. Paratroopers may also make use of any APC's and IFV's, jeeps... anything IDF has, not just parachute behind enemy lines.
• Things you propably didn't notice: 212th artillery rgt of Northern Command called "Golan", not "Golani". Companies of the special troops btn of the "Golani" brigade, and the btn itself, aren't called "Golani". Maybe the don't have official names, maybe I just can't find it, but the only "Golani" thing is the brigade.
• Possibly tomorrow I'll go through Southern Command.png, homefront, corps commands, directorates and whatever remains.

Flayer 18:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Additional general info from official source:

• Every division and regional command has a logiscitcs rgt. Each logiscitcs rgt has:
  • Ammunition btn
  • Supply btn
  • Medical btn
  • ABC (NBC) comapny
  • MP company
  • (some irrelevant units)

Another info: each regular armor engineering btn (601th, 603th, 605th) has a heavy equipment company (with D9 armored bulldozers and other vehicles). Moreover, "Gaza" territorial division has its own heavy equipment company ("Abirey ha-Plada"/"Knights of Steel"). Same with West Bank territorial division ("Hatuley ha-Bar"/"Wild Cats" heavy equipment company). Flayer 15:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I got a mistake. Regular armor engineering btn (601th, 603th, 605th) still belong to regular armor divisions (correspondingly, 401th, 7th, 188th). But yet each regional command has a battalion-size engineering unit.

Special command teams of each regional command no longer exist. Flayer —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:40, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

IDF_Southern_Command.png

460th training armor brigade (arguably belongs to armor corps command)

• 195th "Adam" training btn with Merkava 2
• 198th "Ezuz" training btn with Merkava 3
• 532th "Shelah" training btn with Merkava 4
• 196th "Shahak" tank commanders training btn
• ###th "Adam" "Magen"/"Shield" tank instructors training btn (Flayer 07:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
• (460th brigade doesn't have a recon company)
  

Givati has a normal structure. some sources say its signal company is a part of special troops btn.

• 424th "Shaked"/"Almond" btn
• 432th "Tzabar"/"Cactus" btn
• 435th "Rotem"/"Furze" btn
• 846th "Shualey Shimshon"/"Samson's Foxes" special troops btn
  • ###th "Dikla"/"Palm" AT company
  • ###th "Dolev" engineering company
  • ###th "Shualey Shimshon"/"Samson's Foxes" recon company
• ###th "Maor" signal company

Flayer 14:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF engineering

Brigades, I meant brigades...

Regional commands engineering units build fortifications, bunkers, outposts, pave roads, cooperate with civilian contractor that do the same... Flayer 20:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF - commands, directorates, corps...

• General Staff
  • Northern Command - done (I suggest removing I-HWAK and 8200. Unreliable inclusion, classified issue. Flayer 13:13, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
  • Central Command - done
  • Southern Command - done (Note it has HQ, just like Central and Northern) Flayer 13:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Home Front Command
    • HQ
    • National Search and Rescue SF Unit
    • "Shahar"/"Dawn" Search and Rescue btn.
      • "Shavit"/"Commet" search and rescue coy.
      • "Hez"/"Arrow" search and rescue coy.
      • "Rotem"/"Furze" search and rescue coy
    • Search and Rescue School (BAHAD 16)
    • Unified Northern District
      • NBC btn (reserve)
      • rescue btn (reserve)
        • recovery team / trained by Military Rabbinate
    • Dan (Tel-Aviv) District
      • NBC btn (reserve)
      • rescue btn (reserve)
        • recovery team / trained by Military Rabbinate
    • Central District
      • NBC btn (reserve)
      • rescue btn (reserve)
        • recovery team / trained by Military Rabbinate
    • Jerusalem District
      • NBC btn (reserve)
      • rescue btn (reserve)
        • recovery team / trained by Military Rabbinate
    • Southern District
      • NBC btn (reserve)
      • rescue btn (reserve)
        • recovery team / trained by Military Rabbinate
    • Protection Department
    • Population & NBC Department —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flayer (talk • contribs) 13:45, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
  • Operations Directorate
    • Operations Division
    • Special Means Division
    • Instruction and Doctrine Division
    • Spokesperson's Unit
    • Campaign Design Department
    • Inspection and Supervision Department
    • General Staff Security Department
    • Center of Consciousness Operations
  • Planning Directorate
    • Planning Division
    • Strategy Division
    • Center of Systems Analysis
    • Organization and Infrastructure Department
  • Intelligence Directorate
    • Intelligence Corps Command
      • Intelligence SChhol (BAHAD 15)
    • SIGINT Formation (Unit 8200)
      • "Hatzav"/"Squill" OSINT unit
    • VISINT Formation
      • Mapping Unit
    • HUMINT Formation (Unit 504)
      • 1391th Facility
    • Research Division
    • Collection Department
    • Information Security Department
    • Supervision Department
    • External Foreign Relations Department
    • Military Censorship
    • General Staff Reconnaissance Unit (Sayeret Matkal) / main SF unit
  • Human Resources Directorate
    • Military Police Corps Command
      • Military Police School (BAHAD 13)
      • Prison 4 (394th Facility)
        • Prison 400 coy. / females
      • Prison 6 (396th Facility)
      • Special Unit for Traffic Supervision (YAMLAT)
      • Investigations Unit (METZAH)
        • Central Unit for Special Investigations (YAMLAM)
    • Education and Youth Corps Command
      • Education and Youth Corps School
      • Capm Mihve Elon / New immigrants' course
    • General Corps Command
    • Military Rabbinate Corps Command
    • Chief Reserve Officer
    • Individual's Division
    • Manpower Planning & Administration Division
    • Behavioral Sciences Department —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flayer (talk • contribs) 12:08, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
    • Staff Department
    • Resources Planning & Control Department
    • Town-Majors & Casualty Administration
      • MIA Branch
    • Public Appeals' Officer
    • Soldiers' Complaints Commissionerу
    • "Meitav" Unit
      • Enlistment Administration
      • Reception and Sorting Base (BAKUM)
  • Computer Service Directorate
    • LOTEM Unit
      • Center of Computing and Information Systems (MAMRAM)
      • Center of Encryption & Security (MATZOV)
      • Systems & Projects Department (MAOF)
      • "Hoshen" Unit
      • "Shoham" Unit
      • "Leshem" Unit
  • Logistics, Medical, and the Centers Directorate
    • Medical Corps Commmand
      • Medical School (BAHAD 10)
    • Logistics Division
    • Reconstruction & Maintenance Center
    • Ammunition Center
    • Warlike Stores & Spare Parts Center
    • Construction Center
    • Equipment Center
    • Fuel Center
    • Transportation Center
    • Food Center
    • Medical Equipment Center
  • Ground Forces Command / set to become an arm
    • Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command
      • 828th training infantry brigade (BAHAD 3 - BISLAMAH - School for Infantry Corps Professions and Squad Commanders)
        • 17th training btn
        • 450th training btn
        • 906th training btn
      • Fitness School (BAHAD 8) of Wingate Institute
        • Krav Maga (close combat) School
      • Center of airborne supply and special training (MARHOM)
        • Parachuting School
        • Airborne Supply Unit
        • Snipers and Marksmen School
        • Counterterrorism School / a CT SF unit, which instructors are capable of executing complicated CT operations, not just school.
        • "Oketz"/"Sting" SF dog unit and dog trainers
    • Combat Support Center ("Magal"/"Sickle") non-combat basic training formation
      • Camp Dotan (Camp 80)
      • Camp Zikim (BAHAD 4)
      • Camp Nitzanim
      • Camp Havat Ha-Shomer (for special needs)
      • BAHAD 12 Officers School (for special needs)
    • Armor Corps Command
      • Armor Corps School (BAHAD 5 - BISLASH)
    • Engineering Corps Command
      • 76th NBC "Yanshuf"/"Owl" btn.
      • Military Engineering School (BAHAD 14 - BAHALATZ)
      • "YAHALOM" ("Diamond") Special Operations (SF) Engineering Unit
        • Sayeret "Yael"/"Ibex" engineering SF recon coy. /engineering support for other SF units, HE deployment
        • SAP coy. /engineering support for other SF units, HE disposal
          • National Ammunition Disarming Study Unit /works with SAP
        • "SAMOOR" ("Weasel") coy. /tunnels warfare, locating weapons and HE
        • "Hevzek"/"Flash" robotics platoon
        • "Snowy Slope" breakthrough with HE platoon /CQB, CT, hostages
        • "Giv'ol"/"Stalk" reserve NBC SF platoon /NBC support for other SF units
    • Artillery Corps Command
      • Artillery School (BAHAD 9 - BISLAT)
      • "Meitar" SF AT btn
      • "Moran" SF AT btn —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flayer (talk • contribs) 18:06, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
    • Field Intelligence Corps Command
      • Field Intelligence School (BISLAMASH)
    • Adjutant Corps Command / merge with Manpower Division
    • Ordnance Corps Command
      • Ordnance School (BAHAD 20)
      • Ordnance Corps' Technological College —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flayer (talk • contribs) 16:11, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
    • Logistics Corps Command
      • Logistics School (BAHAD 6)
    • C⁴I Corps Command
      • C⁴I Schhol (BAHAD 7)
        • Computer Professions School (BASMAH)
    • Planning and Strengthening Division
    • Land Division (Doctrine, Instruction and Training Division)
    • Technology Division
    • National Center of Land Training (MALI) / main training facility
      • Anti-Guerilla Combat School
    • Officers School (BAHAD 1)
    • Adjutantcy School (BAHAD 11)
    • Company's & Battalion's Commanders School
  • Air and Space Arm
  • Sea Arm
  • Financial Advisatory
  • Womens' Affairs Advisatory
  • General Military Advocatacy
    • Chief Military Advocate General
    • Deputy Military Advocate General
    • Chief Military Prosecution
    • Chief Military Defense
    • Legal Supervision and Doctrine Branch
    • International Law Branch
    • Legislation and Consultancy Branch
    • Military Law School
  • Military Court of Appeals
    • Central and Air Force District
    • General Staff, Sea Corps, and Home Front District
    • Ground Forces Command and Southern District
    • Northern District
    • Special Military Tribunal / times of war
    • Naval Military Tribunal / times of war
    • Field Tribunal / times of war
  • Military Academies
    • National Security College
    • Command and Staff College
      • Tactical Command School
      • Battalion & Brigades Commanders School (BAHAD 2)
      • "Har'el" military boarding school
      • "Or Etzion" military boarding school
  • Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories

Flayer 09:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC) Later I'll complete it...

Not yet completed.... Flayer 11:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Almost done! Flayer 16:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Air and Space Arm and Sea Arm remins! Flayer 16:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF:Sources

Great work on the IDF Noclador! Am I correct to think that most of your information is coming from Flayer? Cheers Buckshot06 07:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

And my information is coming from the old IDF official site (soon it will be available again in the new site), other IDF units' sites, IDF official magazine "Bamahane", IDF spokesperson's publications, verious publications via israeli and worldwide media, professional discussion groups, forums, hebrew and english vikipedia, and from being in IDF Ground Forces Command HQ... Note that I would never publish undisclosed information, but if any information already published anywhere in Israel and the IDF military censorship did nothing about it, it implicates that this informations isn't classified. Flayer 08:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note Noclador. How many ground manoeuvre battalions are in that 125,000? I ask because usually armies have a nearly 50-50 teeth:tail ratio- as evidenced from things I've read about the British Army and my own experience working for the NZ Army. Cheers Buckshot06 07:06, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Answers

• Commander of each Directorate is an Aluf rank officer. Also look here and here. Flayer 15:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

• All these "Centers" neither under Logistics Division of ALRAM, nor under Logistics Corps of MAZI, but directly under ALRAM itself. Actually, there is/was a plan to converd both Logistics Corps and the Ordnance Corps of MAZI (both subordinated to MAZI not long ago) into one "Supply Division" that would assist ground forces, while the "Centers" would stay in the same relationship with MAZI, IAF, navy... Flayer 12:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF - by the way

• One of the # reserve armor divisions of the Southern Command is 252th "Sinai" division. Flayer 15:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

• The official name of "Gaza" ter. div., is "Shualey ha-Darom" = "Southern Foxes". Flayer 16:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• The recon coy. of Golani called "Flying Tiger". Flayer 17:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Organization charts

Just out of interest, what software do you use to make these organization charts? -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 06:27, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I tried using Microsoft Visio and it didn't work out too well, even though it's a program specifically meant for this kind of task. I can't imagine spending the time to actually draw these in Photoshop. If I drew something like this on paper and scanned it, would you be able to create a chart? Thanks, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF - well done!!

I would suggest only a few things:

• National Search & Rescue SF unit is NOT 669. 669th heliborn evacuation unit belongs to IAF.

• YALTAM diving unit belongs to the navy, so better not to include it, 'cause we write nothing about navy here yet.

• YACHMAM unitS were disbanded when FI corps set up. TZASAM unit also doesn't seem to be existed in during the last decade.

• • The three LRRP units (called "Egoz", "Haruv" and "Shaked") existeed back to the 50's, 60's, mid 70's. One survived 'till mid 80's. Each of them was a kind of "Sayeret MATKAL" for each regional command, providing long range recon. The YAHMAM "target intelligence unit unit/s" set up in 1993 providing "target intelligence" for regional commands. FI corps set up in 2000, then YAHMAM (and probably TZASAM) were disbanded, and this duty been taken to the Field Intel Battalions. It seems you're right, maybe we would need to change the icon of the Field intel units. Flayer 13:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

• "Meitar" nd "Moran" units probably use wheeled ATGM systems.

• It would be good to put in the BATARs of "Magal".

• Is it possible to put in some structure of the IAF and navy to the left an to the right? Flayer 07:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

• • (it depends on how much you want to add) Not much... Later... Flayer 13:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Ordnance Corps' Technological College (IDF)

It appears twice, but is not a part of MALI. Flayer 15:11, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Maglan

Sorry for being annoying... "Maglan" is rather an airborn unit. Capable of non-airborn operaions, like any other parachuting unit in the IDF, but usually described as an airborn behind-enemy-lines long-range demolition, AT and anti-AT SF unit. Flayer 09:52, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhm... "SF" with parachuting sybmol below... Flayer 19:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking about something simple: [2] Flayer 14:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

"Topaz" btn of Nahal

Its number is available: 934. Flayer 10:17, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

36th "Gaash" armor div. (IDF)

It has also a reserve armor brigade, called "Merkavot ha-Esh"/"Chariots of Fire". Flayer 18:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Central Command (IDF)

Recently revealed, Central Command has a special transportation/combat-driving unit. Flayer 19:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

• Another unit of the 162nd armor division is the 264th "Fist & Lance" reserve armor brigade. Flayer 21:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just realized something

I have been observing your structure charts of IDF units and from my personal knowledge never really understood where you took much of your info from (it all seemed just plain wrong to me). Just now I realized that much of the information relates only to wartime situations where the structure of the army changes fundamentally.

Take for example Image:IDF Central Command.png, where it says that there is a logistics regiment under one of the divisions, as well as an MP company. The entire logistics regiment (called Almar, short for Egged Logisti Merhavi - Regional Logistical Regiment) is a pure emergency reservist-only unit, which has nothing to do with how the army generally works. There are six of these regiments (3 in the north, 1 in the center and 2 in the south).

I think the sources need to be checked again, because I have no all-encompassing knowledge about the army and therefore cannot hope to correct every mistake. It is probably better to withhold the information from Wikipedia rather than give the wrong information.

In order to avoid mistakes, I think it's best to go only a few levels (for example, the army structure should only have brigade-level units and higher, a brigade structure should have company and higher, etc.) and not go too much into details, that way it's more difficult to make a mistake.

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The Israeli army is different from all other armies in that it is almost entirely based on the reserve force, which basically takes up the reins during wartime on all levels. This situation occurs very rarely however. I think the only time that reserves were fully mobilized into the emergency structure was the Six-Day War (maybe it happenned in 1982 too, not sure, but definitely not in the last war. A sloppy implementation was also made in the Yom Kippur War). This basically means that the structure that you posted only reflects reality for a few days every 30-40 years. I'd say that at the very least, this should be mentioned in each article. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

IDF

Hi, man!

According to User:Ynhockey, the Northern Gaza Territorial Brigade called "Gefen" and the Southern Gaza Territorial Brigade is called "Katif". It would be nice to put it in. Flayer (talk) 12:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, Golan Territorial Brigade is 474th. Flayer (talk) 14:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

- There, "Merkavot ha-Esh" is 263th. Flayer (talk) 14:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok - listen don't give me every tima a unit - make a list tell me all, as I don't want to open file - change file - upload file - have to read there is something else to do, make the list. i will be back in 2 haours and update the graphics than. --noclador (talk) 14:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'll just put here everything I manage find.

If the graphics became too wide, you can cut and paste the 3 rightmost units of southern command somewhere beneath Edom Ter.Div, and also rearrange the homefront by deleting the repeating reserve NBC Defence btn + Rescue btn of each district. Flayer (talk) 14:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That's all for now. :-) Flayer (talk) 16:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Changes in IDF structure

Hi man! There are some minor changes in the IDF structure.

• C⁴I Corps Command taken back from Ground Forces Command to Computer Services Directorate.
• Logistics Corps Command and Ordnance Corps Command also taken back to Logistics, Medical, and the Centers Directorate.

Flayer (talk) 10:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, have a good time! Flayer (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't change the graphics yet. I'll inform you. Flayer (talk) 17:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

OK. C⁴I Corps Command with its subunits taken back from Ground Forces Command to Computer Services Directorate. That's all for now. Flayer (talk) 07:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Israel Air & Space Arm

Well, lets try to form a structure, before it's too late. ;-)

• Air & Space Arm
  • Chief of Arm Staff Group // the term Group is used here instead of Directorate
  • Air Group
  • Air Group for Helicopters
  • Intelligence Group
    • Technical Service for Intelligence Unit // VISINT unit
  • Equipment Group
    • Unit #22 - Air Maintenance Unit
    • "Ofeq/Horizon" unit // C⁴I of the air force
  • Manpower Group
  • Air Defense Command
    • 5 Air Defense Regiments (167th - 171th), consist of at least 25-26 heavy SAM batteries (17 I-HAWK, 6 Patriot, including some PAC3, 2-3 Arrow) and ~70 light SAM launchers overall.
    • Air Defense School
  • Control Units Command
  • Special Air Forces Command
    • "Shaldag/Kingfisher" unit - special commando unit of the air force
    • Unit #669 - heliborne rescue and combat medevac unit
  • Chief Medical Officer Command
    • Air Medicine Unit // flight fitness of anyone who flies
  • Ramat David (1st air-wing)
    • 109th Squadron ("The Valley Squadron") - operating F-16D
    • 110th Squadron ("The Knights of North Squadron") - operating F-16C
    • 117th Squadron ("The 1st Jet Squadron") - operating F-16C
    • 193th Squadron ("The Defenders of th West") - operating Eurocopter Panther // joint command with the navy
  • Sdot Micha (2nd air-wing) - According to unofficial publications only, we can't really know what is there, if any.
    • 150th Squadron of IRBM missiles
    • 199th Squadron of IRBM missiles
    • 248th Squadron of IRBM missiles
  • Hatzor (4th air-wing)
    • 101th Squadron ("The 1st Combat Squadron") operating F-16C
    • 105th Squadron ("The Scorpion Squadron") operating F-16D
    • 144th res. Squadron ("The Phoenix Squadron") - capable of operating F-16A/B
    • 147th res. Squadron ("The Goring Ram Squadron") - capable of operating A-4
    • 149th res. Squadron ("The Crushing Parrot Squadron") - capable of operating Kfir
    • 254th res. Squadron ("The Midland Squadron") - capable of operating Kfir
    • 113th Squadron ("The Hornet Squadron") - operating AH-64D
  • Hatzerim (6th air-base)
    • 69th Squadron ("The Hammers Squadron") - operating F-15I
    • 102th Squadron ("The Flying Tiger Squadron") - operating A-4 and various trainer aircraft // Flight Training School
      • Aerobatics Team operating AMIT Fouga Magister
    • 107th Squadron ("The Knights of the Orange Tail Squadron") - operating F-16I
    • 123th Squadron ("The Desert Birds Squadron") - operating S-70
    • Air force Infantry School // light infantry to defend the IAF bases
  • Tel-Nof (8th air-base)
    • 106th Squadron ("The Head of the Spear Squadron") operating F-15B/C/D
    • 133th Squadron ("The Twin-Tail Knights Squadron") - operating F-15A/B/D
    • 114th Squadron ("The Night Guides Squadron") - operating CH-53
    • 118th Squadron ("The Nocturnal Owls Squadron") - operating CH-53
    • 601th Squadron (Flight Testing Center Squadron) - testing F-15, F-16
  • Uvda (10th air-base)
    • 115th Squadron ("The Flying Dragon Squadron") operating F-16A, AH-1, and more // Aggressor emulation squadron
    • Aviation School // for flight inspectors, controllers... not pilots.
    • IAF Officers School // after completing BAHAD 1
  • Sde-Dov (15th air-wing)
    • 125th res. Squadron ("The Light Choppers Squadron") - capable of operating Bell-206
    • 100th Squadron ("The Flying Camel Squadron") - operating Beechcraft King Air
    • 135th Squadron ("The Kings of the Air Squadron") - operating Beechcraft King Air and Beechcraft Bonanza
    • 192th res. Squadron ("The Hawk Eye Squadron") - capable of operating E-2
  • Haifa (21th air-base)
    • Technical School
    • IAF Technological College //main campus
  • Ramon (25th air-wing)
    • 119th Squadron ("The Bat Squadron") - operating F-16I
    • 201th Squadron ("The One Squadron") - operating F-16I
    • 253th Squadron ("The Negev Squadron") - operating F-16I
    • 190th Squadron ("The Magic Touch Squadron) - operating AH-64
  • Nevatim (28th air-base)
    • 116th Squadron ("The Defenders of the South Squadron") - operating F-16A/B
    • 140th Squadron ("The Golden Eagle") - operating F-16A/B
    • 103th Squadron ("The Elephants Squadron") - operating C-130
    • 120th Squadron ("The International Squadron") - operating Boeing 707 and SeaScan (SeaScan may be pulled out)
    • 122th Squadron ("The Nahshon Squadron") - operating Gulfstream G550
    • 131th Squadron ("The Knights of the Yellow Bird") - operating C-130
  • Palmachim (30th air-base)
    • 124th Squadron ("The Rolling Sword Squadron") - operating S-70
    • 160th Squadron ("The 1st Helicopter Gunships Squadron") - operating AH-1
    • 161th res. Squadron ("The Northern Cobras Squadron") - capable of operating AH-1
    • 200th Squadron ("The 1st UAV Squadron") - operating Heron UAV and maybe other UAVs
    • 166th Squadron ("The 2nd UAV Squadron") - operating Hermes 450 UAVs
    • 151th Squadron (Missile Testing Unit Squadron)

I'll let you know when it is done. :) Flayer (talk) 15:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it it obviously incomplete, but I don't thing I'll be able to find some more structure-related data. Maybe some squadrons' badges, if you like:) Flayer (talk) 16:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Great work! I'll check the details later. Flayer (talk) 16:05, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

---

Units and Structure minor details:

• 4 yellow stars should represent IDF CoS, 3 stars represent Aluf, 2 stars represent brigadier general, single star for colonel (just like in IDF land-based structure). The one-and-only aluf in IAF is the IAF commander, so all groups should have only 2 stars. Air-defense command should have 2 stars, but other commands should have only one star. Air-base and air-wing are not exactly the same term here. Generally speaking, air-wing may have only flight squadrons and an airfield, but air-base definitely has more then that (maybe special forces, maybe special hangars, maybe SAM batteries...). Ramat David (1st air-wing), Sdot Micha (2nd air-wing), Hatzor (4th air-wing), Hatzerim (6th air-base) and so on should be kept. You can't say that 6th air-wing is located in Hatzerim airbase, because there is no 6th air-wing there - Hatzerim itself is a 6th airbase.
• Hatzerim (6th air-base), Tel-Nof (8th air-base), Uvda (10th air-base), Nevatim (28th air-base), and Palmachim (30th air-base) definitely have more then just squadrons. They are headed by brigadier generals and should have two stars. All the other are air-wings headed by colonels and should stay with one star. Haifa (21th air-base) is an exception - it isn't an air-wing, it has no squadrons, I assume it is headed by a colonel. Ah, and there is another reserve airbase, called Machanaim, located in Ben Ya'akov Airport. It has no squadrons, and probably headed by a colonel or less.
• IMHO, names of cities and towns in brackets doesn't help to understand where do these airbases stand. Neither Hazerim nor Nevatim are in Beer Sheva. Nevatim actually closer to Dimona, and Ramon is far away from Beer Sheva in a middle-of-nowhere in the desert. Palmachim is not in Yavne, actually it is very much larger then town of Yavne (BTW, Palmachim itself has a spaceport! Worth to notice? We are talking about "Air and Space Arm", remember? :-) ). Ramat David is obviously much closer to tiny Ramat David than to well-known city of Haifa, just like Hatzor is located near tiny Hatzor, and so on...
• 122nd sqn. uses their specially modified Gulfstream aircraft for ELINT and AEW&C (not for transportation of troops or supplies). Worth to notice? 192nd res. sqn. is also for AEW&C only.
• 193rd sqn. helicopters are capable of landing on Israeli missile corvettes and perform in anti-ship / anti-submarine role. When they do so, they subordinate to the navy. Worth to notice?
• 601st sqn. (flight test center) doesn't necessarily tests (fly on) F-16s, but any IAF aircraft. Just keep it blank.
• 131st sqn. - typo (bracket).
• 133rd sqn. - typo (F-15A/B/D).
• 115th sqn. (opposing forces emulation squadron) has some ground installation for their role - modifiable fake SAM batteries or something like that (emulation of opposing forces' air defense).
• Each active airbase (not necessarily each air-wing) has 3 additional no-fly squadrons: 'maintaining squadron', 'aviation squadron', and 'administration squadron'.
  • Hi, according to the feedback I get, airwings (and Haifa airbase) also has maintaining squadrons, aviation squadrons, and administration squadrons. Except 2nd airwing (it's a kind of area 51, nobody can tell what is there). Flayer (talk) 13:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
    • You know, Israel has never officially admitted to having nuclear weapons and also never seriously denied the claim. Personally, I strongly believe it is nuclear. Flayer (talk) 21:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

to be continued... Flayer (talk) 13:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC) OK :) Flayer (talk) 16:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

That's all, probably. :-) Flayer (talk) 19:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

P.S

• Control Units Command (we better call like this, don't you think?) has some small units and 3 major early warning and control units, located on Mount Meron, Baal-hazor hill, and on a high hill near Mitzpe Ramon. Flayer (talk) 19:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Flight Training Scholl trains both fixed-wing aircraft pilots and helicopter pilots. Flayer (talk) 18:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! Now only navy remains. :-) Flayer (talk) 10:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Typo: 107th Squadron has F-16I, not F-15I. Flayer (talk) 17:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

---

Hi, again. I still have some negative feedback about some details.

• Those 7 reserve squadrons (125th, 144th, 147th, 149th, 161st, 254th, and 192nd) seem to be somewhere between totally inactive and completely disbanded, and in in any case no way tied to its former aircraft and bases, though they may be revived in any IAF base with any kind of aircraft that Israel would purchase someday. Therefore they might be presented in the structure image in some way (in a single branch, maybe) without mentioning its base or its aircraft.
• It seems like only three air-defense regiment remained in the Air-Defense Command: Northern, Central, and Southern/air-defense school. Sorry about the mess. Flayer (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
• Ah, the Shaldag SF unit's number appears to be 5101. Flayer (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, did you notice the above? Flayer (talk) 18:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! I also been thinking, maybe the right image for 'aviation squadrons' would be the one with a radar-like icon. Not sure. Flayer (talk) 08:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

---

It wasn't easy! :)
Flayer (talk) 23:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Request

Hi Noclador! Wikipedia 0.7 will soon be out on DVD, and the IDF main article has been selected to be part of it, which means it will almost certainly include your detailed structure. I am asking, if you have time, to fix some mistakes. Here are the ones I found so far:

1. Manpower Directorate: The Medical Corps is now part of the Technological and Logistics Directorate, and not the Manpower Directorate
2. Manpower Directorate: There's no corps called NCO Corps, instead it is called Adjutant Corps (and Adjutant School)
3. Manpower Directorate: The Military Police School (Bahad 13) is a battalion-level unit, not a brigade-level. Prison Four and Prison Six are also battalion-level. The Investigations Unit (please change to either Criminal Investigations Division or Investigating Military Police) is a brigade-level unit, while the Yamlam is battalion-level. The Yamlat (traffic supervision) is between company-level and battalion-level (not sure what the international equivalent is - it has 2 companies and the commander is a major).
4. Regional commands: The Logistics Regiment (should be Logistics Support Unit) is reservist-only (should be clarified) brigade-level (one star) unit, and all units in it are only active during an emergency (war). There are three (3) Logistics Support Units in the Northern Command (Northern Golan - 5001st Unit; Lebanon - 5002nd Unit; Southern Golan - 5003rd Unit), one (1) in the Central Command (5004th Unit), and two (2) in the Southern Command (Gaza - 5005th Unit; South - 5006th Unit).
5. GOC Army Headquarters: Havat HaShomer is subordinate to the Education and Youth Corps, not Magal
6. Lastly, the commander symbols you used seem incorrect on the whole - you have 1 star for brigade-level, 3 lines for regiment-level, 2 lines for battalion-level, and 1 line for company-level. However, there are no regiments in the IDF, and there is a level between battalion and company. Some of the regiment-level units you listed are actually brigade-level (like the Logistics Support Unit), while some (like Sayeret Matkal) are battalion-level. I can help you with identifying some of those.

Please try to fix these :) if you can't do this anytime soon, let me know and I will try to emulate your entire chart in CorelDRAW and make the necessary changes.

Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:49, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Ynhockey, are you sure about the Medical Corps? Medical Corps was a part of AKA/AMASH, then in became a part ATAL/ALRAM, but ALRAM became ATAL back again and the corps moved back. Are you sure that Medical corps remained in ATAL? Adjutant Corps - agreed, MP - agreed, 6 new ALMARs - agreed, Havat HaShomer - agreed, medium/low level commander symbols - agreed (artillery brigades still called regiments :-P). Flayer (talk) 20:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that it's part of Atal right now. Since the recent mumbo-jumbo in the IDF's organization though (Halutz vs. Ashkenazi - moving everything, then moving it back), it's hard to certainly confirm or source this. I could ask a friend from the corps if you don't trust my current knowledge :) On a side note, you are both invited to check my IDF idea box - I am especially interested in Noclador's opinion, as someone who has not been personally close to the IDF. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't ask for a source. :-D 99% of the trash sites around IDF never heard of the recent moving/removing-naming/renaming mess. Now I'll take a look on the idea. Flayer (talk) 21:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

By the way, I also found something. Desert recon. btn. and probably "Caracal" light infantry btn. use wheeled transportation. Flayer (talk) 20:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I made the update - I hope I understood the changes to the Logistic Support Units correctly. --noclador (talk) 21:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update and the e-mail! There's still a problem with the Logistics Supprt Units - the ones I told you about are the only ones that exist (there are no non-reserve logistics support units), so putting them near the command's main box, and then putting another one at the bottom, gives the impression that there are logistics support units in the regular service under the commands. The 5005th unit is actually called "Southwest" by the way (but operates in Gaza); apologies for not making it clear earlier. By the way, you can send the PSD (although I was hoping for a vector format) to ynhockey at gmail dot com. Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Due to the new placement for the Logistics Support Units, it seems like there are no space constraints, so you can add 'territorial' (i.e. Territorial Logistics Support Unit). On a side note, when I have time I'll check for you about other reserve units - can't remember them off the top of my head, but it's likely that quite a few other units on your chart are actually reservist. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

P.P.S. The Hebrew Wikipedia says that the Alpinist Unit is battalion-level. Of course, we can't be sure. However, if you don't have a source saying otherwise, I think HeWiki is believable in this regard. Also, the Caracal Battalion is surobdinate to the Sagi Territorial Brigade in the Southern Command. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Orbat graphics (again)

Hi again! You gave me a link a while ago to the legend to your OrBat graphics, but I can't find it in my talk archives :( can you please give the link again? Thanks! -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 22:51, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you linked me to a PDF last time, but APP-6A is pretty much exactly what I was looking for :) Thanks! I hope you don't take offense to this, but I'm trying to replicate your IDF graphic in vector format (no idea how you work on this stuff in raster format...), so that I'll be able to fix mistakes more easily (which I already found quite a bit of, doing some research). If you want, I'll send you what I've done so far. Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:32, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

IDF Southern Command

I, Flayer, hereby award you the IDF Wikipedia corps tag for your sincere devotion and your personal commitment to the mazy structural graphics of the Israel Defense Forces and the related subordinated units. Flayer (talk) 21:21, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, man!

I have some additional information about IDF Southern Command:

• 585th battalion actually belongs to "Katif" territorial Brigade.
• 366th Division's Signal Battalion is 373rd bat. ("Ra'am/"Thunder")
• 366th Division also has 10th res. armored brigade ("Har'el")
• 80th Division also has 7489 res. Art.Rgt ("Shaham")

Flayer (talk) 19:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. :) I always look for the most complete and up-to-date (yet nonsecret) data. Flayer (talk) 20:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Naval OrBat

Hi noclador! Sorry to be bothering you again, but I've resumed work on my IDF schematic (it's indeed taking much longer than I had hoped), and would like to include the navy and air force. Unfortunately, I still don't fully understand the color scheme you used for the IDF, and can't copy the navy part because I haven't found any of your OrBat graphics related to navies. Can you please tell me what color to use for naval formations? A full explanation of the color scheme would be more helpful, but you probably don't have time for this if it's not ready in a document. You e-mailed me some files a while ago, but they don't seem to explain the color scheme, just the App-6 symbols. Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 09:39, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm still working on the overall IDF chart, and made this interim diagram. Please tell me what you think! -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I followed your advice. Not much of a difference IMO, but maybe it did become more clear to those unfamiliar with the subject. Cheers! -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)