Matthewdkaufman

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3AD

Greetings! Just a comment about your edits to 3d Armored Division: When I was in the division back in the 80s, both the motto and the nickname were pretty much universal among not only the folks in my unit, but division-wide(as far as I could discern). I would like to hear from you on this-please give me a buzz.--Lyricmac 13:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Once again, please give me buzz regarding your edits to 3d Armored Division. Thanks.--Lyricmac (talk) 03:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

My friend, I have tried to contact you regarding your edits to 3d Armored Division without success. Accordingly, I am reverting your last edit to this article, save that I will be deleting the mottoes, both official and unofficial, as they are rather extraneous. If you wish to write me later about this, I will be glad to discuss this with you. The last thing in which I am interested is an edit war. Wishing you the best of the day, --Lyricmac (talk) 15:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Lyric: I was in the 2/3FA, 1st BDE 3AD from 85-88 and never heard the unofficial motto, nor really ever heard "3rd Herd" used much (I can count on one hand the # of times I recall hearing it. This might be because up at the Rock we didn't see much of the rest of the Division. We called the Division "3rd AD" , if we every referred to it, or more likely as, "The Fucking 3rd AD". Referring to the Division as "Third Herd" almost every singly time in the Gulf War section doesn't make much sense to me, given that its NOT referred to in that way anywhere else. I will copy this on your page, to see what you think, but I'll tell ya, "Third Herd" used a couple of times is fine, but over and over? I'll bet you that the 3rd ID has the same internal nickname. No need to use it in the article as synonym for the Division. --199.68.81.105 (talk) 19:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, are you Matthewdkaufman, or are you 199.68.81.105? With whom am I speaking? I would very much appreciate some clarity here. Why are you using two accounts?

In any case, (1), if you will re-read the article, beginning with the Cold War section and continuing to the end, you will find that the term Third Herd is used a total of five times in all that span. I didn't count the times that the terms, 3rd AD, the division, 3AD, or 3rd Armored Division were used; suffice to say that they greatly outnumbered the Third Herd term and thus. This, in my opinion, doesn't constitute "over and over". The purpose of integrating different titles is to inculcate a bit of variety into the narrative and to make it more interesting, provided that the title is a valid one. (2) I traveled extensively over 3AD country in my time there and invariable heard soldiers using it wherever I went. I also heard my compatriots use the terms 3AD, the Division, Spearhead and 3rd AD. True, I heard it less in Frankfurt(Drake Kaserne, where I was assigned) than at other places such as G'hausen and Hanau. However it seemed that the common soldier used the 'herd' title as much as the others, maybe simply because it was different. (3) The title or term Third Herd is one that I also heard on a subsequent tour to 1st Armored Division when it was headquartered at Ansbach, only this time to describe the 3d ACR at Hof, on the Czech border. I had mentioned that to a couple of fellows I knew up at Hof, when I was TDY there, antd they confirmed that 3d ACR had been referred to in that manner since Vietnam(at least), and that they had also heard the 3AD reference, as well. (4) Neither I nor my still-active contacts ever heard 3d ID referred to as Third Herd, I think, simply because it would seem strange to hear an infantry division referred thus, unless it is a light division, or mobile. Even then the term "herd" scares up an image of tanks or cavalry.

As I had stated previously, the mottoes, both official and otherwise, I deleted in keeping with the apparent practice in other articles of this type, so I think that this is a non-issue.

I hope that this "tome" suffices as a justification for the use of the term Third Herd in the article. There is nothing more that I can add. Wishing you the best of the day,--Lyricmac (talk) 21:53, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Comments to Lyric's message:

Excuse me, are you Matthewdkaufman, or are you 199.68.81.105? With whom am I speaking? I would very much appreciate some clarity here. Why are you using two accounts? ---Pure Laziness on my account, sorry.

In any case, (1), if you will re-read the article, beginning with the Cold War section and continuing to the end, you will find that the term Third Herd is used a total of five times in all that span. I didn't count the times that the terms, 3rd AD, the division, 3AD, or 3rd Armored Division were used; suffice to say that they greatly outnumbered the Third Herd term and thus. This, in my opinion, doesn't constitute "over and over". The purpose of integrating different titles is to inculcate a bit of variety into the narrative and to make it more interesting, provided that the title is a valid one.

--I disagree. The article is written for, and ready by, a general audience. "Third Herd" just isn't a recognized name for the unit anywhere I've ever seen it referred to, in all the books I've read and all the Websites out there devoted to it. Try this: Google "Third Herd" and you'll find more refernces to an Air Force unit, and the 3rd ACR than you will to the 3rd AD. "Third Herd" just doesn't deserve to be a synonym for the 3rd AD like "The Big Red One" or "The Black Sheep". Also, "Third Herd" is used primarily in the Gulf War section, and virtually nowhere else.

(2) I traveled extensively over 3AD country in my time there and invariable heard soldiers using it wherever I went.  I also heard my compatriots use the terms 3AD, the Division, Spearhead and 3rd AD.  True, I heard it less in Frankfurt(Drake Kaserne, where I was assigned) than at other places such as G'hausen and Hanau. However it seemed that the common soldier used the 'herd' title as much as the others, maybe simply because it was different. 

--At the Rock, 1st BDE, I don't recall ever hearing it, and I was there for 2.5 years from 85-88. We were pretty isolated, except for travels to exotic Grafonweohr, Hohenfels and Wildflicken.

(3) The title or term Third Herd is one that I also heard on a subsequent tour to 1st Armored Division when it was headquartered at Ansbach, only this time to describe the 3d ACR at Hof, on the Czech border. I had mentioned that to a couple of fellows I knew up at Hof, when I was TDY there, antd they confirmed that 3d ACR had been referred to in that manner since Vietnam(at least), and that they had also heard the 3AD reference, as well.

(4) Neither I nor my still-active contacts ever heard 3d ID referred to as Third Herd, I think, simply because it would seem strange to hear an infantry division referred thus, unless it is a light division, or mobile. Even then the term "herd" scares up an image of tanks or cavalry.

--Moot then. But the 3rd ACR reference in point 3 shows that "Herd" isn't a specific nickname for the 3rd AD.

Then, if it is that important to you, by all means revert the 'third herd' references to other titles and thats okay with me. That will be my last word on the subject. Kindest regards--Lyricmac (talk) 01:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

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