Laxinthe303

The LDS Church

I noticed your edit on the LDS church article; your reasoning was that you can only use the Bible to define being a Christian. I agree with you, but could you please define who a Christian is using just the words of Jesus from the Bible? Of course, he did not use the word Christian, but he used many synonyms for the same thing. Let me know what you come up with.

In your research you may want to read the Christian article. You will find that a Christian is simply one who follows Jesus Christ. The Bible has nothing on having a certain set of beliefs; that definition of being a Christian has been created by individual churches to identify between "true" Christians, which for centuries meant that they had to be members of their own church, and false Christians, which were everyone else that said they were followers of Jesus.

Interestingly, if you use the parameter that someone must believe in the Trinity to be a Christian then you would also have to say that Jesus, the twelve apostles, and all his other disciples fail the test. The doctrine of the Trinity did not exist as a "doctrine" until 325 so all the Christians prior to that time were not Christian based upon this new definition of Christian that individual churches have created. --Storm Rider ^(talk) 17:51, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

You indicated that the only followers of Jesus before his crucifixion were his mother and his apostles and that Christianity does not effectively begin until after his death. I would reject both premises and the Bible would not support the first at all. Jesus taught the Gospel and his words are found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. LDS hold the Bible to be the word of God and they certainly do not discount them in view of other books of the New Testament. Thousands followed Jesus about and listened to his teachings and accepted him as their Savior. The Bible tells us of his triumphal entry into Jerusalem; these would be those who believed in him. The thousands that he fed after having taught them for several hours would also be representative of those who followed Jesus. Luke 10:1, 17 tells us of Jesus appointing other "seventy", and sent them two by two. They ddi so and returned with joy saying "even the devils are subject unto us through ty name." No, there were far more disciples of Jesus than just his mother and the twelves apostles.

When Jesus directed the apostles to teach the people to repent and be baptized we have the earliest formulation for being a disciple of Christ or a Christian as we call it today. Not once did Jesus ever teach that to be a follower of "me" you have to believe specific teachings other than believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, repent, and be baptized.

This concept of the Trinity and the necessity of believing in it did not fully evolve until 325 AD. That is historical fact that you can find in any history of Christianity. Do not confuse this statement with saying there are no scriptures used to support this teaching. However, there is no such thing in the earliest days of Christianity as a definition of being a disciple of Christ meaning a group of believers with specific doctrines other than Jesus Christ, born of the virgin Mary, lived a perfect life, bled and died for our sins on the cross, rose the third day, and will return again. If one believes these things, repents of their sins and is baptized, that person is saved. Not once did Jesus say you need a specific understanding of the nature of God before you can be saved. This is pure fallacy; churches teach this, but Jesus did not teach this as a prerequisit for being his follower.

Now, having said that do not understand that Latter-day Saints do not think it is important to know truth. LDS believe that the more truth one knows the more one comes to know God. He is the very definition of truth.

As far as the Bible goes and the doctrine of the Trinity...I understand how some Christians have come to believe this concept; however, I would also say that I believe the Bible when read in context and when taken as a whole, the Trinity is not taught. There are too many conflicting scriptures. Jesus saw himself as separate from the Father. There is none good but one, that is, God; if he were the Father then he could not have stated this. When Stephen was stoned he looked up to heaven and saw Jesus on the right hand of God; it is impossible to be on the right hand of oneself. There mere fact that he taught about "his father" is one of the simplest ways to understand that Jesus considered himself separate from the Father. In "my Father's" house are many mansions; not "my" house, but my Father's. One of the great teachings of Jesus was "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." The same way that Jesus will be in us is the same way that the Father was in Jesus and Jesus was in the Father. There is a plethora of other scriptures, but these are the ones that come quickest to mind.

It is senseless to argue doctrines; we both read the scriptures and strive to follow Jesus Christ. If wikipedia allows for readers to understand subjects then we have succeeded as an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a dispenser of truth or even an arbitrator of truth. The objective is to be as neutral as possible while reporting facts.

I understand that some churches say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not Christian. I support them having the right to say so, but I also reject that a church, any church, should be defined or described primarily by how others see them. If that were so we would have to identify the Roman Catholic Church as a cult also or as the Great Whore of Babylon. I reject these teachings as utter poppycock. They are labels created to misguide others and deny the beauty, truthfulness, and deep purity found within the Catholic church. By the same token, I reject the same type of comments when talking about The Church of Jesus Christ. They can be discussed as views held by others, but they are not the primary way to describe any church.

In closing, the Bible does support a definition of a disciple of Jesus or a Christian. For Latter-day Saints Jesus is not just a prophet as the Muslims see him, but He is the Son of the Living God, the only Begotten of the Father. There is none that will enter Heaven except by and through Him. To portray LDS belief as anything less than that is either deceitful or demonstrates an extreme lack of knowledge about LDS doctrine. By any objective definition of being Christian, the LDS church is Christian. --Storm Rider ^(talk) 20:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

File:2309327678 ce46c27669.jpg listed for deletion

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October 2017

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