Jodiariasproject

Jodi Arias case summary

Any thoughts on the summary of the Jodi Arias case at :

https://worldpeacethroughworldwidedisarmament.blogspot.com/2022/11/113-22-reasonable-doubt-thread.html?fbclid=IwAR3jDY-fUhVQ7weU74Yf5um3rB_X9VFh8kdvYe6WgT43Vva0mrRulZqXJ08 Jodiariasproject (talk) 12:21, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Murder of Travis Alexander

Hello! For me, it was a close call, but I opted to revert your edit to Murder of Travis Alexander for a few reasons. There were some formatting issues with the edit, but, honestly, if it was just that, I would've fixed it myself. Instead, what principally drove the call, for me, was that it wasn't possible for me to evaluate the source you posted and ensure it was reliable. It seems that you posted an excerpt of a documentary that's on a Facebook page that's explicitly devoted to exonerating Arias. At the very least, we have to be a little cautious of sources with such an explicit POV. But, moreover, I couldn't figure out where the video clip came from. There was no discussion of the source in the Facebook post—no mention of a title or director or anything. If you can find that information or—probably even better—if you can find a reliable secondary source that also supports the statement you added, then I think it might warrant mentioning in the article. Obviously, if you disagree with my decision, you're welcome to revert me, and we can discuss it further on the talk page.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 16:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

thanks Jerome, I did get it from: If I Can't Have You: The Jodi Arias Story (Discover Plus):

https://www.facebook.com/1232457869/videos/10218039297793978?idorvanity=2980791382165767. Can I go ahead put the added information, let me know, thanks Jodiariasproject (talk) 16:52, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I, at least, won't object! Go ahead and re-add it; I'll try to touch up the reference formatting once you're done (if necessary).--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 16:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

thanks Jerome Jodiariasproject (talk) 17:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I have another edit and was wondering whether it would meet your approval and here it is : Travis also was a comedian and in one of his acts, he was seen rubbing his nipples, simulated an intimate act on a total stranger, joked about beating a woman to death, joked about beating women to keep them in line, joked about the benefits of lying and using people. Jodiariasproject (talk) 10:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

forgot to put the link to my most recent edit ( for your approval ) and here it is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gAfmGdm_I&t=96s Jodiariasproject (talk) 10:36, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey! I definitely don't want to give the impression that I'm in charge of the page or that you need to run edits by me! That said, if I had to guess, I don't think that edit would fly. For one: you're relying on a primary source—that's not always a bad thing, but it's often treated with some suspicion—for one thing, if reliable secondary sources haven't written about the issue, why should Wikipedia? I'd also say that it's hard to see how at least a few pieces of information there are at all relevant to the article. What does Alexander "rubbing his nipple" in a comedy act have to do with anything?

Given your username, I think you do have to be especially mindful about WP:NPOV. That doesn't mean you shouldn't edit the page, but I'd be sure that you're only adding information that's relevant and supported by reliable secondary sources, at least when possible.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 12:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

isnt the article also about Travis' life (his comedian routine is within his life experiences ) or does it always have to relate to the case ? and even so, arent cases about reasonable doubt that Jodi was the only one who was showing unusual behavior ? Jodiariasproject (talk) 14:12, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

So, this won't be the most helpful response: The page is really just on the murder, ... but some background material can absolutely be included. But, especially because this is background material, I think it's all the more important that we rely on reliable secondary sources. (For example, if you found a New York Times article discussing Alexander's comedy routine, then I'd say it's probably worth including!)--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 14:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible to just create a page for Eddie Snell, Travis Alexander's alter ego ? Jodiariasproject (talk) 09:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I'd say probably not—I don't think you'd meet notability guidelines. But if secondary sources have discussed that identity, then that information could potentially be in the page on the murder.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 01:04, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I can think of at least two secondary sources, one is a book where Eddie Snell is mentioned and the other is Dr Drew on HLN who had a segment on Eddie Snell but both sources did not directly talk about the comedy routine in question (at least as far as I could see ) and so, what is the best way to introduce the content of the comedy routine ? would it be in other parts of the Wiki community, perhaps in Wiki Data or some other Wiki ? thanks Jerome Jodiariasproject (talk) 15:37, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

If that's the case, I think it's probably the case that we shouldn't introduce the content of the comedy routine on Wikipedia. (I'm not too familiar with other Wikis.) Of course, you're free to disagree with me, and we can discuss it on the talk page there and see if other editors have thoughts, but if reliable secondary sources don't cover a point, that's often an indication that the topic shouldn't be included on Wikipedia. I think that's particularly true when discussing an article on an event and considering the relevance of background material. One chief problem is that the implied relationship between the subject matter of the comedy routine and the murder would be original research.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 15:40, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

So the way Jodi is handled in wikipedia is always from a secondary source and all her behavior which is not related to travis, I am assuming is excluded ? Jodiariasproject (talk) 21:38, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I'd probably agree with that, but I don't want you to think it's exclusive to Jodi Arias. All statements on Wikipedia should, ideally, be supported by reliable secondary sources. That's true if your'e writing about Jodi Arias; and it's also true if you're writing about World War II or any other subject. (There are times when primary sources are appropriate, but they're frowned upon, and the more tangential a fact is from an article's core subject matter ... the more likely that editors will object to a primary source being used to support it.)--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I notice that at least one primary source is acceptable, especially from the trial itself and so, do you think i should concentrate on the trial itself ? for the time being Jodiariasproject (talk) 12:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, primary sources are probably more acceptable for an event that's more directly connected to the murder (i.e. the trial). That said, I'd really try to focus on finding secondary sources, if you can!--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 13:16, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

thanks for all your help, it has been educational Jodiariasproject (talk) 11:39, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I noticed my latest edit ( Travis Alexander page) was moved. What is the easiest way to see where it was moved to since i noticed it was moved to the trial portion but i could not find it, thanks Jerome Jodiariasproject (talk) 16:06, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi! Sorry for the delay. So since your source was describing texts that were attempted to be introduced at trial (and since the word "allegedly" was used in regards to Alexander's "bit of a sociopath" remark), I thought that the text was a bit too strong. Right now it's in the fourth paragraph of the Guilt phase section, though I plan on changing that section around quite a bit today. If you use your browser's find feature (control F or, if you have a Mac, command F) and search "bit of a sociopath", you'll see it.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 16:54, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

appreciate the browser navigation tip, thanks Jodiariasproject (talk) 17:53, 1 May 2023 (UTC)