User talk:Jmabel/Archive 35

Marteau

Morning Joe. (Getting used to saying "Good Morning" all times as I am just organising my removal from Munich to Germany's north where I shall teach the history of the English novel for a couple of semesters...

This is to give you the link to an article I recently wrote: Pierre Marteau - and where again I feel I mixed some German grammar into my English. I'd be most happy to see you turn my lines into something more elegant wherever I failed. Best, --Olaf Simons 11:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

(If I should add more to this article let me know and I'll be able to go into details wherever the reader might enjoy this.)

• Done. Nice one. - Jmabel | Talk 20:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

It will take me a couple of days (the next two days will be spent with my removal to Oldenburg), to read over your lines with more attention. Thanks for taking a look at the article (you know, I like your thoughtful revisions). Sometimes I thought of writing the English equivalent of de:Kult (Status). One of the readers of the English Wikipedia's equivalent Cult classic recommended my German lines as a good point to start with. My problem was, however, the German perspective of my article. I wonder whether you should not feel tempted to write some kind of English equivalent. It needs soemone with an Anglo-Saxon background for that thing to sound authentic. The German article is one loved by the audience (they add films and other things in the lists I opened at the end), the topic is inspiring, and the English article a strange stub. (The additional advantage of the English equivalent would be the images. I had originally brought English-wikipedia illustrations into the German article - startreck enterprise on an American stamp, Bart Simpson on the cover of Time magazine, they actors of Matrix... which all had to leave my German article due to copyright anxieties... --Olaf Simons 22:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Pequot / Ethnic Template

I think the template looks good.

I am somewhat suspicious about the potential politicization of the entry. It is a historical fact that the Pequot War was between religious group historically referred to as Puritan and the Pequot people. I also feel that the term 'tribe' is as accurate a term for this group of indigenous people as it is for Algonquin, Sioux, or any other group of recognized indigenous people.

I also feel that referring to this group in the past tense "The Pequot [b]were[/b]..." is inaccurate and potentially politicized.

Beyond educational value an encyclopedia should be historically accurate. This accuracy should be immune to politics.Wjbean 15:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Fleur-de-lis

Thanks for your nice message. The whole thing has been an odd learning experience for a newish Wikipedian. If the anon editor stays quiet, I'm not planning to do anything more over there - (would need to do some reading) - unless you have any suggestions. --HJMG 07:22, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Jacobin/Sandbox

Hi!

Back in July 2005 you moved some new material into Jacobin/Sandbox from Jacobin. Nothing ahs happened to it since then, and it has now appeared on WP:DEP. Is this going anywhere? At the moment I'm thinking of proposing it for deletion through the proposed deletion, but thought I'd get your input first.

Thanks! Cje 15:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll take it on. I believe there is some worthwhile material there. - Jmabel | Talk 17:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipediology

Please see the discussion about the new role of the board and the new charter here. Thanks. -JCarriker 22:35, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

That's fine. It's a form post; all board members recieved. Thanks for the note. -JCarriker 22:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject started

I've started the project, which is located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative music. WesleyDodds 23:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Stavropoleos Church

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Stavropoleos Church, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

—Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 02:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, not mine, I just nominated it. I've passed on the good word to User:Adriatikus. - Jmabel | Talk 02:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for proposing Stavropoleos for DYK. Adriatikus 02:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

Reference Converter is still being tested. Apologies for accidental deletion. --Asterion 04:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I just realised the comment wasn't about my last edit. Reference Converter seems to be working fine then! --Asterion 05:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Marat

Thanks for the heads-up about your Marat work. I made suggestion on the Talk page about adding something about Marat's legacy. J M Rice 21:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Catalan

You're welcome. I was somewhat confused by the fact that that section seemed to have been written by a non-English speaker, but that you were listed as Native English. I assumed that something like what you described had happened. I actually don't have much knowledge of Catalan itself, just some general knowledge of Linguistics that gave me a bit of insight into what was being said. I didn't edit anything where the meaning didn't seem clear, you'll notice that I left a few things unchanged, such as one of the snippets on unstressed vowels, as well as the thing on "proparoxiton words," or whatever. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Linguofreak (talk • contribs) 18 April 2006.

Pederasty and LGBT

Good morning, I noticed your edit to Category:Pederasty and was wondering how you arrived at that conclusion. Pederasty is one of the three major branches of homosexuality, and the most represented in history and culture. While, as with anything else, one could point to heterosexual analogues and counterexamples, they are pretty much the exceptions that prove the rule and do not diminish the validity and significance of age-structured homosexuality. Haiduc 10:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

(responding on his talk page) - Jmabel | Talk 15:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

• I quickly went to look for the heterosexual vase in "Pederasty" and did not find it. I have no idea what you are talking about. Even though there are fringe uses of "pederasty" in heterosexual contexts (as in "pederasty on women") they are not generally accepted in the scholarship and are seen as aberrant. The fact that homosexual behavior is presently constructed under the LGBT rubric is not a problem, there are many modern pederastic relationships that fit the bill and are perfectly legal, as if that were a considerent for inclusion. I assume you will not be removing articles on the history of homosexuality from the LGBT category. I fail to see any logic in your edit, unless it is the exclusionary logic that we run into from time to time, which tries to draw artificial and untenable distinctions between pederasty and homosexuality, while clinging to the historicity of homosexuality by citing the pederastic record. Haiduc 20:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

• • Well, since really we do more here than merely document slang usage in America I think the category needs to be put back in its place. If you have any further reflections on this please let me know. Haiduc 00:00, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I have said that I will take your word for it, and feel free to go ahead, but U.S. English is hardly a "slang" (of UK English or of anything else). - Jmabel | Talk 00:32, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Need a vote on Article up for deletion

I would like to ask a favor, sir.

I would like your comments: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Organizations_and_people_who_predicted_the_collapse_of_the_USSR On every page I post this on, many people start passionate conversations about this. Travb 05:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks I owe you one. Just ask next time you are in a crunch.Travb 05:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Watchlist limited to 500

Is the watchlist still limited to 500 entries? I put a temporary limit in place yesterday then removed it shortly after, but I may have forgotten to sync the file. I did so after I saw your comment on #mediawiki. By the way, don't assume that the few idiots hanging around in that channel speak for everyone. In any case, try #wikimedia-tech next time. -- Tim Starling 05:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Jews of Spain

When the Jews of Spain were forced to leave Spain, they promised they would never return. What exactly did they say? Did they make a powerful statement? I'm thinking something inlines like the Greek oxi, tho that's a totally different scenario. Thx. --Candide, or Optimism 06:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Dead Politicians

Joe,

Excellent points.

I floated the issue regarding 'Assassinated’ v. ‘Murdered’ Politicians a couple of weeks ago. The response I’ve gotten so far has been tepid at best. I decided to ‘Be Bold’ and started a jihad changing ‘Murdered’ to ‘Assassinated’. This lasted for about three Articles. I found that it really depends on (as you pointed out) the ‘circumstances’ and/or ‘motive’ of the killing (This is a feast for an old psychologist like me – but I’ll try to contain myself).

As I have said before, isn’t the term ‘politician’ an occupational one? Every other death by occupation (except Royalty – and I’m not so sure that isn’t so much an occupation as an accident of birth) in Wiki is categorized as either accidental, murder, or suicide.

Your examples underscore a major issue here: the link between the victim and their assailant. If a person had killed Adolf Hitler while he was still butchering millions would that person go down in history as a murderer or assassin (or hero)? The subjectivity is nearly impossible to avoid. It is this link that makes the Category decision a tough one.

If we proceed Article by Article, and base the decision on the circumstances, what do we do about the subjectivity of other editors – both now and in the future?

A solution could be to do away with both ‘Assassinated’ and ‘Murdered’ altogether, and go with a neutral term such as ‘Slain’. This would make the assailant the ‘Slayer’.

I would very much like your thoughts on this.

(By the way, a very close friend of mine is a ’72 graduate of Wesleyan – he sends his regards)

Be healthy,

Michael David 22:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Joe,

I'm still on a bit of a learning curve when it comes to the mechanics and protocols in Wikipedia. I'm never sure on which page to answer so I usually choose the person's who sent the message.

If 'slain' seems to work for you, perhaps together we can figure out how to make the changes in the existing articles and categories.

Please think about it and I would like to re-connect with you tomorrow. The time where I am is now 11:54 PM.

Be healthy,

Michael David 03:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Joe,

This is a rather complex undertaking. Both ‘Assassinated People’ and ‘Murder Victims’ have numerous Subcategories. I’m not even sure what it is we are proposing: Name change, wholesale deletion, or a combination of both.

I don’t have enough experience with Wikipedia to spearhead such a change proposal on my own.

Michael David 11:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

copyright

Hi Joe,

Thank you for the edits on some of the articles that I started. I have some general questions about copyright.

What can be considered fair use, what can/should be put in quotation marks?

Does this apply to other wikipedias as well, or are they public domain (e. g., can one of their articles be translated into English entirely and put on the English wiki, as I have seen done?)

How about copyright for text/images from websites?

Thank you, Eugen Ivan 17:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to point things out and for the links. Eugen Ivan 20:00, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

SPATRA: merging completed article

The article Wikipedia:Spanish Translation of the Week/Vasco Núñez de Balboa has been translated, and needs to be merged into Vasco Núñez de Balboa. Is it possible for you to merge the page histories, so the translator's contributions are preserved? — J3ff 22:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I've prepared the temporary article to be moved into the main namespace. Can you please move the article, and do the history merging? Thanks — J3ff 20:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Romania

You're welcome in Romania Joe! --Andrei George 07:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Moldovans and about that picture from Vienna Diktat what is the best way to modify it or to delete it not in a speedy deletion manner? --Andrei George 20:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

manuc

Hi,

I saw your talk notes about Manuc's Inn -- I could translate some .... But to me, the personality of the founder is much more fascinating -- I heard/read that he was a double agent, both for the Russians and the Turks (rumors that he was evenpolkovnik in the Tsarist army) --certainly his actions seem to confirm that. So I started an article about him. My question is: how much of this article [1], after editing and correcting for errors etc. can I place in wikipedia? I know that RRI is trying to promote Romanian culture abroad, so they probably wouldn't mind that (or shouldn't), but still copyright is copyright, no? Eugen Ivan 00:54, 25 April 2006 (UTC) BTW, I saw in one of your earlier posts that you were offended by a Romanian user. Please don't mind him, you probably found out by now (as I have, rather quickly) that the wiki community is a collection of brilliant dedicated people and utter fools ... Romanians, alas, are no exception in this regard! So, please don't be discouraged. Eugen Ivan 00:54, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

(Response on Eugen's user talk page). - Jmabel | Talk 01:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the speedy response and the pointers. The article was going to be just a starting point, anyway. As for some people's claims about innate abilities, I had a good laugh. Eugen Ivan 01:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

notability

Hey there Jmabel, how's trix? :)
Looks like a couple more articles on small Seattle establishments have cropped up: Deano's (Seattle) and Dai Bai Zan Cho Bo Zen Ji. I tagged them with {{importance}} but am now sort of wondering how much harm they really do. Thoughts? --Lukobe 04:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Have a good time! --Lukobe 06:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Jean-Marie Roland, vicomte de la Platière

Hi Jmabel,
Thanks for fixing the errors I left in the above. Looks like I was tired at the time. Best wishes, David Kernow 00:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

merging Vasco Núñez de Balboa

I understand you're busy and may not have gotten a chance to read the message I left on your talk page a few days ago. The article at Wikipedia:Spanish Translation of the Week/Vasco Núñez de Balboa is ready to be moved to Vasco Núñez de Balboa. When you get a chance, it would be great if you could move the article and perform the history merge. Thanks — J3ff 04:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi Jmabel,

The Persian Jews article was unprotected today, but a full-scale edit war has resumed again. Can you please protect it again before the situation escalates? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 06:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the advice! Regards, —Khoikhoi 06:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Arnold Rosé

See message on Arnold Rosé talk page. By the way: all reference books seem to refer to him as Austrian rather than Romanian. He was, of course, born in what is now Romania, but emigrated at the age of four to Vienna. Hikitsurisan 07:13, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Morton strikes again

Morton seems to be striking again, this time on the WTO Ministerial Conference of 1999 article regarding a columnist. Please join the discussion on the talk page when you get a chance. Thanks! SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject US regions election

The page hosting the May 2006 election of WikiProject US regions is up now. You may now sign up as a candidate for coordinator or add new proposals concenring the workings and policies of the WikiProject. Voting begins on the 6th. -JCarriker 18:45, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

This note is to remind you to please vote in the May 2006 election. There is a proposal for the the partial shading of states in the maps series and the annual election of a coordinator. Please vote by May 12th. Thanks. -JCarriker 18:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sabra and Shatila

Been away from Wiki for more than half a year, so didn't see your email til now.

You're right, it doesn't seem to make much sense. The first sentence seems to belong in the previous paragraph, and I think the second shouldn't have a however. I'll look around for the S&Y book on my shelves (I promise to find it in a year). The second sentence doesn't seem to really belong there as it doesn't seem to concern the camps directly - I'll check if and how S &Y connect the two before changing it. Probably an artifact of sloppy editting.John Z 07:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

About "Paragraph 175"

• I translated the Paragraph 175 into Chinese according to the English Translation.

I found some confusion here:

a man who professionally offers himself for such an act as either the active or passive partner.

(under "Version of June 28, 1935" and "Version of June 25, 1969 (West Germany)")

It is about prostitution or a "skillful masturbation"?? Thank you. --Hkchan123 06:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Prostitution. - Jmabel | Talk 06:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

thank you.. here is another question.

• In the middle part of "Developement in East Germany":

Lewdness (Unzucht) was defined as any act that is performed to arouse sexual excitement and "violates the moral sentiment of our workers."

What is "Workers" refers to?? The judges? the prosecuters etc.?...or the whole worker class in the society? Thank you --Hkchan123 14:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Catalonia

Hi Joe. I'm also very busy, and I've been out of the WP for some weeks. I've found that somebody renamed the main article "Catalonia" to an ugly "Catalonia (autonomous community)" . Can you help in my requested move? see:[2]. Best wishes. --Joan sense nick 23:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

AfD for Right- and Left- wing terrorism articles - have your say

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Right-wing terrorism and also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Left-wing terrorism and have your say, if possible. Thanks.Xemoi 00:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Communists

În toată ţara, dar mai ales în Moldova, acţionau o mulţime de agenţi comunişti sovietici, infiltraţi sau proveniţi din Basarabia şi Rusia, în marea lor majoritate evrei de origine. Ideile antinaţionale, atee şi antimonarhice începeau să câştige teren inclusiv în mediile universitare. Având în vedere că ideologia şi doctrina comunistă era de sorginte evreiască, iar marii conducători comunişti din acea perioadă erau în totalitate evrei, termenul de „iudeo-comunism” sau „iudeo-bolşevism” a devenit o banalitate. Nu degeaba în Cronica Iudaică (Jewish Chronicle) din 4 aprilie 1919 ce apărea la Londra se afirma: - „ Este foarte semnificativ conţinutul bolşevismului şi faptul că atâţia evrei sunt bolşevici. Idealul bolşevismului este în concordanţă cu multe din înaltele idealuri ale iudaismului”. Şi câţiva ani mai târziu, în „The American Bulletin” din 15 mai 1935, rabinul Stephen S. Wise spunea cu nonşalanţă: -„ Unii îl numesc Marxism, eu îl numesc iudaism”. Iar în 1939, Harry Waton, în „A program for the Jews and an Answer to All Anti-Semites”( Un program pentru Evrei şi un Răspuns către Toţi Anti-Semiţii), la pagina 148 scria: -„Nu este un accident că Iudaismul a dat naştere Marxismului, după cum nu este un accident că evreii au îmbrăţişat imediat Marxismul. Toate sunt în perfect acord cu progresul Iudaismului şi al evreilor.” – dar numai în acord cu restul omenirii, nu - adăugăm noi. Aşa încât cei care luptau împotriva comunismului luptau practic împotriva unor concepţii şi a unor oameni politici de origine iudaică şi se considerau astfel antisemiţi, dar nu din punct de vedere rasist ci din punct de vedere social politic. Totodată, în perioada interbelică, cuvântul de „jidan” folosit în paralel cu cel de „evreu” nu avea conotaţia depreciativă sau negativă din zilele noastre. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.77.7.162 (talk • contribs) 14 May 2006.

seattle neighborhoods

Is it just me, or does it seem some of GoDot's contributions to local articles make the articles on local neighborhoods and their features (e.g., Burke-Gilman Trail) less clear and harder to edit? --Lukobe 21:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't had time to look (I'm really busy and probably won't be back on the wiki bigtime until late June) and this sounds like the sort of question where unless you point me at specific edits it could take a while to work out, so I'm afraid I have no comment for now, but I would generally trust your judgment in such things. - Jmabel | Talk 06:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your confidence. I'll watch and wait. It's definitely not something you need concern yourself with now--just was checking on the off chance you'd noticed. --Lukobe 06:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The Nation

Hope you're enjoying Romania. I actually have relatives there but have never been.

Anyway, on the talk page of The Nation magazine there is a renewed discussion on this left vs. liberal issue to which you contributed a while back, in case you have a sec to weigh in.--Mantanmoreland 19:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! Also I've modified my vote somewhat to make it clear that I prefer left/liberal. --Mantanmoreland 14:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletionism facing (Judaism) articles

Hi Joe: I have just placed the following on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism. Enjoy your trip. IZAK 09:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Shalom to everyone: There is presently a very serious phenomenon on Wikipedia that effects all articles. Let's call it "The New Deletionism". There are editors on Wikipedia who want to cut back the number of "low quality" articles EVEN IF THEY ARE ABOUT NOTABLE TOPICS AND SUBJECTS by skipping the normal procedures of placing {{cleanup}} or {{cite}} tags on the articles' pages and instead wish to skip that process altogether and nominate the articles for a vote for deletion (VfD). This can be done by any editor, even one not familiar with the subject. The implication/s for all articles related to Jews, Judaism, and Israel are very serious because many of these articles are of a specilaized nature that may or may not be poorly written yet have important connections to the general subjects of Jews, Judaism, and Israel, as any expert in that subject would know.

Two recent examples will illustrate this problem:

1) See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zichron Kedoshim, Congregation where a notable Orthodox synagogue was deleted from Wikipedia. The nominator gave as his reason: "Scarce material available on Google, nor any evidence in those results of notability nor any notable size." Very few people voted and only one person objected correctly that: "I've visited this synagogue, know members, and know that it is a well established institution" which was ignored and the article was deleted. (I was unaware of the vote).

2) See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Berel Wein where the nominator sought to delete the article about Rabbi Berel Wein because: "It looks like a vanity project to me. While he does come up with many Google hits, they are all commercial in nature. The article is poorly written and reads like a commercial to me." In the course of a strong debate the nominator defended his METHOD: "... what better way to do that than put it on an AfD where people who might know more about the subject might actually see it and comment rather than slapping a {{NPOV}} and {{cleanup}} template on and waiting for someone to perhaps come across it." But what if no-one noticed it in time and it would have gone the same way as "Congregation Zichron Kedoshim"? Fortunately, people noticed it, no-one agreed with the nominator and the article was kept.

As we all know Googling for/about a subject can determine its fate as an article, but this too is not always a clear-cut solution. Thus for example, in the first case, the nominator saw almost nothing about "Congregation Zichron Kedoshim" on Google (and assumed it was unimportant) whereas in the second case the nominator admitted that Berel Wein "does come up with many Google hits" but dismissed them as "all commercial in nature". So in one case too few Google hits was the rationale for wanting to delete it and in the other it was too many hits (which were dismissed as "too commercial" and interpreted as insignificant), all depending on the nominators' POV of course.

This problem is compounded because when nominators don't know Hebrew or know nothing about Judaism and its rituals then they are at a loss, they don't know variant transliterated spellings, and compounding the problem even more Google may not have any good material or sources on many subjects important to Jewish, Judaic, and Israeli subjects. Often Judaica stores may be cluttering up the search with their tactics to sell products or non-Jewish sites decide to link up to Biblical topics that appear "Jewish" but are actually missionary sites luring people into misinformation about the Torah and the Tanakh, so while Googling may yield lots of hits they may mostly be Christian-oriented and even be hostile to the Judaic perspective.

Therefore, all editors and contributors are requested to be aware of any such attempts to delete articles that have a genuine connection to any aspect of Jews, Judaism and Israel, and to notify other editors.

Please, most importantly, place alerts here in particular so that other editors can be notified.

Thank you for all your help and awareness. IZAK 08:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)