User talk:Hamza Alaoui/Archive 1

On your works in WP-French

Hi. Hope you are doing well. I am here to tell you that I have recently come across some of your great works in WP-French you have composed on Nasr and other figures. Although I do not understand French and had to rely on Google Translate, I can appreciate them because I am familiar with the sources you invoke to develop the narrative. Honestly I was feeling kind of deprived of the grace of profound knowledge that those texts so succinctly provide. I have also seen your recent works on Schuon here on English Wikipedia. They are just great. When shall we see the English translations of your other works in French? Best wishes. Mosesheron (talk) 13:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Bonjour Mosesheron, thank you for your kind message. I am glad that the pages you mention seem good to you. To answer your question: 1) the French article on Titus Burckhardt already exists in its English translation (not by me as it is not my mother tongue); 2) concerning the French article on S.H.Nasr, a friend of his told me Nasr was pleased with it and asked someone to translate it into English; that was in September and the English page hasn't changed since then, so I intend telling that friend that if the translation is not yet underway, I know someone who would do it. I see that you are very active on WP, with interesting topics. Salâm, --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 18:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Glad to hear that that you are trying to get it translated into English. I am also happy to know that Nasr was pleased with it. May Allah reward your efforts brother. Salam. Mosesheron (talk) 21:07, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello Mosesheron, I have asked my contact person again regarding the English text and I am waiting for an answer. Salam, --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 07:59, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Nasr's page is badly in need of an update. This burden appears to have been placed on your shoulders by God Almighty. As no one else seems to be willing to take on this task. Hope it will be completed soon by the grace of God. Mosesheron (talk) 08:55, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Mosesheron, I just received the English translation of SHN's French page. I now have to add the sources. Before posting the text on WP, I hope you will accept to have a look at it on my sandbox page for approval. Salam,--Hamza Alaoui (talk) 08:41, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Great. Thanks for your efforts. I will take a look at it. Mosesheron (talk) 11:44, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I have started reading the text; do you mind if I fix some minor errors such as spelling etc? Mosesheron (talk) 19:23, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Or make some minor changes where necessary? You are free to revert them If I do something unconstructive. Mosesheron (talk) 19:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Mosesheron, I am now only finishing the third section "God and the world" - it takes some time to compare the English with the French and make the few necessary changes, to check if the quotations of SHN have been correctly recopied from his books, add the sources, change the typography when necessary, etc. I prefer that you only correct what I have revised. Every time I finish a section, I shall add in bold: "Revised up to here". Thank you for your help. --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 07:36, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Mosesheron, it will probably be a problem if we both work at the same time on my sandbox page. Could you tell me in which country you live? If we have different time zones, we should find a solution. --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 12:32, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

You are right. Please take your time and finish working on it, and then I'll take another look to see if there are any minor errors. I've read the entire text. In fact, I'm not sure how much I can do here other than perhaps correcting a few minor typos. The one obvious issue I've observed is the frequent reference to his credentials, which I believe is unnecessary for a views section. Best wishes. Mosesheron (talk) 13:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

What does "credentials" and "views section" mean? --Hamza Alaoui (talk) 13:16, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

For example, Patrick Laude's quote "Seyyed Hossein Nasr’s background is remarkable in at least three ways...." and other quotations/statements like this are what I meant by "reference to his [Nasr's] credentials". By "views section" I meant Nasr's views based on his written works. I thought "Notable aspects of his works" referred to this. Maybe you have something different in mind. Mosesheron (talk) 14:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. As secondary sources are important in WP, I thought it was necessary to quote others' opinions. If I'm doing something wrong (in this respect and in others), you will surely let me know. I will transfer every day in another sandbox the sections I revised, in order for you to see if there are any language mistakes or non-respect of WP rules, so that I don't repeat them in sections I still have to revise. You may of course write (in bold) in that sandbox.--Hamza Alaoui (talk) 15:26, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

I've highlighted a few places in the text where I thought there were minor issues. Please accept my apologies if I made a mistake. Mosesheron (talk) 15:20, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

October 2021

Hello, I'm ජපස. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edits to Seyyed Hossein Nasr seemed less than neutral and may be removed in the near future. If you think this is a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. I note that most of the prose you have been adding to this page are uncritically promoting the ideas of Nasr, many of which are WP:FRINGE and objectively false (such as claiming that the Cambrian explosion is a problem for modern synthesis). Wikipedia can accommodate reporting the beliefs of fringe theorists such as Nasr, but WP:WEIGHT needs to be adhered to and the omission of the take-downs of Nasr's incorrect statements need to be included or the ideas deserve to be omitted if no one but his acolytes have noticed them per our content guidelines. jps (talk) 13:26, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello jps, you have made some valuable amendments and I thank you, but I don't understand why you have deleted, for instance, the following passage since the only purpose of this article is to present Nasr's opinions: "Nasr rejects this theory for the following reasons ["for the following personnal opinions" would be more neutral]:

• the sudden appearance, noted by scientists, of new species in various geological periods and over very extended areas, such as some unrelated vertebrate groups, which contradicts an evolution in the direction of progressive complexity;[202]

• the almost total absence, in the stratigraphic records, of fossils that should exist as intermediates between the major groups;[202]

• the lack of the trace of life in the Precambrian and its sudden appearance in the following geological periods;[202]

• the impossibility of the appearance of sight in a blind animal or a pair of wings in an insect or a fish which, moreover, would have to practice flying;[203]

• the impossibility, starting from an animal intelligence, of developing a capacity of reasoning as sophisticated as that which characterizes the human being,[197] whose consciousness is able to reflect on itself, to be conscious of being conscious;[204]

etc.

Regards, Hamza Alaoui (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I cannot find any indication that these claimed issues that Nasr mentions have been noticed by relevant experts in geology, biology, or neuroscience. According to WP:REDFLAG and WP:FRIND, minimally we would need third-party notice if not explicit critique of these claims. Briefly, it is fairly straightforward to debunk any number of these "reasons" and it would be irresponsible to identify these reasons as "personal" since they are, in fact, (pseudo)academic. A "personal" reason for rejecting evolution would be something like "I just don't like it" or "I have disdain for the community of biologists for how they have received me and my ideas". jps (talk) 18:41, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

The reason we don't just report people's opinions if they haven't been noticed by others is duly explained in WP:COAT which is what I think the text you are referring to really runs afoul of. jps (talk) 18:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

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