User talk:Eliyak/Archive 3

Ma'oz Tzur

If you get a chance, work your magic on Ma'oz Tzur. Zargulon 21:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Psalm 143

Hello, I just happened to see your AFD nomination, and I'm a regular in sorting through Wikipedia's garbage dump. How's your summer? (You can answer off-wiki if you want by clicking email this user on the left). I just wanted to say hi and wish you well. Best regards, Yechiel R. aka Shalom ^Hello 04:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Buggy {{Roundup}}

Just thought I'd let you know that I reverted your change to {{Roundup}} here, because it was buggy. --PEJL 17:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Template:Sefirot

Hi, I just made a major change to Template:Sefirot to improve it with ImageMap functionality. I used the old, full image, so if you've made changes to any of the smaller pieces, it might be useful to use them to upgrade the larger image. Nihiltres^(t.l) 19:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Plagues

Silly me! It was the reptile that led me astray. Needless to say the pic had no information. Johnbod 02:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, thinking about it, it shows how different the iconography - or rather the scenes chosen for illustration - are. You would I think never get those in 1/2 page miniatures in a Christian illuminated Old Testament; historiated initials at most. It's a good pic anyway.Johnbod 02:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Images of Jewish literature

		The Jewish Barnstar
		Wow that is impressive here is a barnstar for your work Java7837 19:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much. It wasn't really all that difficult, though. There are plenty of images still not categorized - both Jewish and non-Jewish. If nothing else, categorizing them makes for a nice gallery. --Eliyak T·C 19:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed

It does make a great gallery. Can you help me rate by importance WikiProject Judaism articles?--Java7837 19:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

thank you--Java7837 19:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

high five!

A few short days ago, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Judaism has 899 article. Today it has 1381. You and I are probably largely responsible for this. :-) --Bachrach44 15:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yasher koach! --Eliyak T·C 19:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, check out the most recent log at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Judaism articles by quality log. --Eliyak T·C 20:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I actually didn't know about that - thanks. --Bachrach44 23:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Jews for Jesus

I see that you're a banner person, and you added the Wikiproject:Judaism to this article. Jews for Jesus is a Christian evangelical organization. It has precious little to do with Judaism, and, in fact, it's kind of offensive, and in a sense anti-Semitic, but that's my POV. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I wondered who added Jews for Jesus to WikiProject Judaism. I thought it was very NPOV and encyclopedic (but also brave) to do so. I hoped it was not a trouble-maker, though. :D Yay! It was you!

A request. I've done a lot of work on the supersessionism article. I'd never heard of this in a 4 year theology degree in Sydney! I really don't know if anyone is right or wrong, I'm working hard to understand who says what to whom and why, and lay it all out in a single article. The sources do seem to suggest there are substantial definitional differences, hence parties may think they agree with other groups when they don't, and others think they disagree when in fact they're not so different.

The bottom line is, I think it'd really help if people heard what one another were saying, and disagreed on the basis of what is real, rather than an appearance.

Anyway, I've been getting feedback from some people, and I'd love more. I'd particularly appreciate pointers to accessible sources, and confirmation or clarification of fair representation of particular positions. Could you shoot a Jewish theologian my way by any chance? Is that you? ;)

PS Your Misnah template is the best template I've seen on Wiki by miles. Maybe I don't get out enough. Cheers. Alastair Haines 11:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice simple change at JfJ and smoother I agree. Cheers. Alastair Haines 17:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Images on Wikipedia

I have noticed that you have been categorising some images recently. However, where possible, all images should be on commons only: {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} Chesdovi 15:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Jewish lawyers

I have nominated Category:Jewish lawyers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for merging into Category:Jewish American jurists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. THF 23:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"Birth control" as a sub-category of "Medical ethics"

I was surprised to see Category:Birth control added as a sub-category of Category:Medical ethics. I was not aware any significant portion of the medical community considered things like condoms and spermicides ethically troubling. I'm curious to hear what your reasoning was with this categorization. Lyrl^Talk _C 20:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I think I disagree with the categorization on two points: whether birth control is mainly an issue for the medical profession, and the notability of ethical controversies involving birth control.

While Category:Hormonal contraception requires a prescription from doctors, numerous forms of birth control are over-the-counter or even require no drugs or devices at all (e.g. fertility awareness, coitus interruptus). Since medical professionals have little or no involvement in the use of these methods, I don't believe the entire Category:Birth control can be considered to be mainly an issue for the medical profession. Even more so for the "extreme forms of birth control" you referred to (mandatory limits on family size) - to me, those are political issues, not medical issues at all.

Second, there are groups that find all sorts of medical decisions unethical. Jehovah's Witnesses believe blood transfusions to be unethical. Scientologists believe psychiatric treatment is unethical. And yet neither Category:Psychiatry nor Category:Transfusion medicine are listed in Category:Medical ethics, and I do not believe they should be. These controversies, like those surrounding contraception methods, are not (in my opinion) notable enough to be listed alongside abortion and eugenics as major ethical controversies in the medical profession.

If a category were created for the population-control related articles (I think there are enough of them now to justify this), I would support making it a sub-category of Category:Social ethics. Similarly, I believe Category:Religious views on birth control and Category:Critics of contraception would fit nicely into Category:Religious ethics. What would you think of reorganizing along those lines? Lyrl^Talk _C 02:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Moshe Feinstein (and other articles of high importance)

After some consideration I think I see your distinction and will do my best to follow it in the future. --Bachrach44 02:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I clearly know that feeling too. (I really wish there were an article class between start and B). My feeling is to not sweat any of these too much because they're only general guides and things can change. If someone doesn't like something in the future, it can always be changed. --Bachrach44 03:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

GA

Please don't tag articles as good articles as you did here. Articles must be reviewed against criteria by a member of WikiProject Good articles. Midrash clearly fails to meet GA criteria, the most obvious being that it is completely void of citation and has an extremely weak and insufficient lead. Lara♥Love 16:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Self-sacrifice under Jewish law

Thank you for tagging the article, and thus bringing it to the attention of other editors.

What do you think can be done, to better the article further, in order to higher the quality scale?

BTW, look at the categorization I’ve done, and tell me your thoughts.

Now, about this WikiProject Judaism, do you think I should join, or is it only for the "big time editors"?

Bloger 05:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, and thank you for your work on the page.

I generally agree with all your edits; however, I take exception with two, three things.

Firstly,

…Judaism places a high value on life. It is therefore permitted to disregard most of the mitzvot…

While it’s the word “most” is true, it doesn’t clearly reflect the smallness of the amount 3 out of 613.

Therefore, I think this will be better:

…Judaism places a high value on life. It is therefore permitted to disregard “all but three” mitzvot…

Secondly,

…However, one would also be required to give his life to avoid Chillul Hashem by the public transgression of His commandments…

I think we need to add the reason why to make it more understandable, I prefer adding:

…This is because desecrating the Torah in a public fashion is considered the harshest violation of Jewish law at least as far as heavenly forgiveness is concerned…

Thirdly:

…and the sole purpose of the persecutor is to have the Jew transgress halakha…

I think that in order for people to clearly understand the context we need to add:

…“and not, for example, if one is forced to violate the Shabbat because the forcer wants to make a profit”…

Bloger 20:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:YU Roshei Yeshiva

Can you add a tnavbar to said template? I don't know how to do it elegantly (or really at all, for that matter).--DLand^TALK 14:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Very nice - and very quick response too :) Thanks, DLand^TALK 14:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Torah reading picture

Hi, I noticed a request for a free-use picture of Torah reading. I searched Flickr for free-use images (those that carry the CC-Attribution or CC-Attribution-SA licenses) and found these. I like this one personally. I'm asking you since you seem to be making the most contributions to the article. Let me know which image you like and I will upload it to the Commons and add it to the article. BlueAg09 (Talk) 21:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

tagging tor WikiProject Judaism

Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#cats_to_tag_-_Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism.2FCategories. --Bachrach44 17:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Funny

That was a funny log on my template...! Lighthead ^þ 22:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Prophecy Talk Page

Could you please explain the purpose of this edit, besides the WikiProject miscellany? Removing recent talk page discussions is unusual and the norm is to reserve such actions for pressing issues such as libel, serious copyright vios, etc. This leaves me confused seeing as you're not a new editor and, as far as I can see, don't have a history of questionable actions. Thanks — xDanielx ^T/_C 02:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for explaining. — xDanielx ^T/_C 00:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Category:Kibbutz Dati

Hi Eliyak. I have nominated the above category to be moved to Category:Religious Kibbutz Movement as the main article has been renamed to the English version. The discussion is taking place here. Number 57 08:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Jewish leaders

Template:Jewish leaders has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. IZAK 13:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Alphabet of Ben Sira

This text is rejected by the rabbis shouldn't it be part of Category:Non-rabbinic Jewish texts it claims that Adam had 2 wives before Eve way different from the Jewish view--129.115.38.13 13:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Parts of the Kabbalah say some things that I (and perhaps you) would find a little weird. See Lilith#Kabbalah, for example, for some relevant teachings which are definitely considered "Jewish." --Eliyak T·C 16:11, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Todah

Moved from my user page:

I hope you have a wonderful Shabbos as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.225.79 (talk)

Thank you - translation

Dear Eliyak, thank you so much for your most helpful translation of the request on my user page! It did indeed, clear up the intent of the poster, and for that I'm very appreciative! And I was happy to help earlier with your userpage, so no thanks is needed. ^Ariel♥Gold 19:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

היי גבר

שלום קוראים לי מתן ואני מישראל, אני מזמין אותך לבוא למדינה שלי, תתרגם את זה גם עם מיליון בבילונים מצחיקים. המדינה שלי היא הכי הכי הכי יפה בעולם כולו, וזה לא משנה מה שאומרים לך. תבוא יהיה סבבה אצלנו, באמת. יאללה אוהב אותכם כולכולכם שבוע טוב ומבורך!!!!ישראלי כוסון 23:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Jewish lawyers

I have nominated Category:Jewish lawyers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. szyslak 14:36, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Baali (title)

I have removed your notability template from the article because I took it from Easton's Bible Dictionary. Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles is a project which is trying to make sure that Wikipedia includes all of the articles from the Bible Dictionary. There are some very rare cases where it is not deemed notable (I think I've seen two or three) and I don't think baali is one. It is a stub and that does need to be fixed. gren グレン 06:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Shraga Hager

Hi, there is currently a discussion about the notability of Rabbi Shraga Hager your insight on this would greatly be appreciated[1]. Have a beautiful day--יודל 13:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

About Category:Highlander screenshots, just curious

Hello,

About this edit you made, I was just wondering, what's the use of the "+" before Highlander ? Thank you, have a nice day. Rosenknospe 11:11, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not a vandal,you are!

The Solomon article was broken up into too many sections.I reformated the article to where it was more eaisly readable.I did not remove any facts.YOU,HOWEVER, DID REMOVE MY FACTS I ADDED THEREFORE YOU ARE THE VANDAL.King Solomon died of syphilis,that's beleived to be a fact.My friends and I will keep the solomon page proper,I was not sandboxing with it!I'm an experanced contributer,I had a sn on this site before.If I have to get an administrator to calm you down I WILL! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.169.67 (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't talk to me or touch my work!

Maybe it was a typo.I didn't add baa tho.Even so you have no right to erase facts from the encyolpedia for a typo.Why don't you fix the typo?I will be having your account reviewed by an adminstrator. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.169.67 (talk) 21:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for work on Bar Mitzvah / Bat Mitzvah / B'nai Mitzvah

Thanks for your work! -- 201.19.77.39 12:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Ha. They have no thanks for me, I guess. But I came here to thank you as well. I think I'm a pretty good editor, and I'm doing my best to get the Judaica correct, but I appreciate your changes for accuracy. I learn a tremendous amount from trying to improve the Jewish articles, but I don't always get it exactly right. Even someone without deep knowledge, however, can make the language flow better and provide citations for unsupported claims, etc., which is what I am trying to do. Maybe you could help me by explaining something that I have yet to learn? What is the relationship among the terms/things Talmud, Mishna, Gemara? (I haven't studied them- yet- so I'm confused). Even the article about the Talmud is confusing to me - it was "redacted" over a time period? And was that time period the first two centuries CE or thereafter, or both? I understand overall that it has to do with the written codification of the Oral Law, but exactly how? Kaisershatner 12:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your reply! It is very kind of you to bring me one step further along in my studies. I see your number 13, and raise you a 23.  :) Kaisershatner 14:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I was just looking at "Yeshiva" and removed the sentence "primarily for boys in Orthodox Judaism." Is there a better way to include that idea? Kaisershatner 20:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Eliyak. Can I bother you with another Judaism question? I went to a bat mitzvah in a Reform synagogue on Shabbat Bereshit. Looking online at the Parashah, it seems to run all the way to Noach; however in the synagogue I am sure they stopped reading somewhere around Genesis 1:18 before moving on to the Haftorah. Do they have different parashot in Reform synagogues, is the rest of the parashah read later in the week, or did I somehow miss the rest of the reading? I hope you don't find this tedious. I can find people in my daily life to answer these questions too, if you are disinclined. Best regards, Kaisershatner 13:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC) Looking into this on my own- does it have something to do with a triennial system of reading?[2] Kaisershatner 14:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I figured I owed you one. In case you are interested, apparently some Reform and Conservative synagogues read the Torah in a triennial fashion, cutting the parashot into thirds to make the shorter(!) and reading only 1/3 of them on a given Shabbat. The full Torah reading takes such congregations three years. That must have been what was going on at this thing I went to. Best regards, Kaisershatner 19:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Requested edits.

Done. · AndonicO ^Talk 11:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Sefirot

Just stunning Eliyak, thanks for showing me that, I'm ovedue to read up on Kabbalah, now's the time! :D

PS I'm a naughty full-time, self-funded, post-grad student of Gender in Shir haShirim. I procrastinate some of that work to write at Wiki, but mainly on issues at least related to the topic. Some writing is "practising" for my dissertation, other writing is simply documenting areas I'm reading in, but won't ever write up myself. Then there's contribs I make to relax, or because I think they need to be there...

I find post-grad really lonely, but Wiki provides interaction! Alastair Haines 01:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Peri’ah metsitsah

Hi. Why would you delete material that is supported by a cited source, replace with material that is not, and then put a citation tag on that new material? The citation given for the article indeed supports the description of the procedure seen in my version of the article. If you want to add to it, or provide a conflicting description, that would be reasonable, but only if you have a source for it, and even then, that does not justify removing the one already there. Thanks. Nightscream 17:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Since Christopher Hitchens is a well-known journalist, it would appear that he satisfies any reasonable criteria for credibility. The material is not "apparently unsourced", since I placed the citation in it. I can assure you that the details in the article are derived directly from the book, and if you want, I can scan the two pages to show them. Since the WP standard is attribution and credible sources, not truth, we cannot simply alter it by using your personal knowledge, which would violate WP:OR. What I would suggest is that you find some other source of equivalent credibility, so that if you want, we can add an alternate viewpoint to the article. Nothing I see on the Brit milah article contradicts this, as the phrase "peri'ah metsitsah" doesn't even show up in it. (If you were referring to some other aspect of that article, let me know.) Nightscream 02:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The issue is not whether Hitchens "determines Jewish practice", or whether adherence to these sources are based on whether one is a "respectable Orthodox Jew". The issue is that Wikipedia has rules, and one of them is that Original Research is prohibited. You cannot use original research to support an edit or assertion. As I stated above, and as it states at Wikipedia: Verifiability, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." The source is valid because Hitchens is a well-known journalist, not because of a "distinct opinion". Journalists make it their point to base their assertions on research, and not necessarily personal a priori knowledge, and it is on that basis that one must judge the assertion. If you assert that Hitchens made an error, that may well be fine, but then you'll have to provide a different source on which to base any correction. If the Talmud, Mishnah Torah, the Shulchan Aruch contradict the material, then please cite the relevant passages in question. Do not simply revert the page using only your personal knowledge as a source. Wikipedia forbids that. Nightscream 02:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure why you keep reverting my changes, which are now sourced. Perhaps if you read my posts on your page, it would help. I have not said anything about Maimonides, nor can I see anything in the brit milah article that supports your contention. Indeed, this is not surprising, since part of your position is that the term Peri’ah metsitsah does not exist. If this is true, then it's obviously not going to easily be corroborated by a source, since such sources don't detail terms that do not exist. It is also unclear to me what aspect of that article specifies the Orthodox, and excludes the Hasidic, or any other part of the article's original version, but perhaps you can elaborate on that.

But apparently you do not care. Christopher Hitchens speaks the word of God. If Maimonides disagrees with him, he is "another source." I did not say anything about Hitchens "speaking the word of God" or anything about Maimonides. These are your words, not mine, and it is unfortunate that you are now engaging Straw Man arguments. What I stated was that the article was based on a credible source, that your assertions were not clearly sourced, particularly in any way that would call for the exclusion of the article's original material. What I "care" about is following this site's policies, which includes incorporating alternate viewpoints, at least until a greater clarification can be made. I tried looking for a personal website of Hitchens in his article, so that I could contact him, but there wasn't any. I'm going to keep trying to see if I can corroborate the material in his book.

As you say, Hitchens is a journalist. This makes him qualified, one would assume, to report on current events. He is not a Talmudist or other scholar of Jewish practice. This is an ad hominem argument, which is a type of logical fallacy. A journalist is qualified to write on any topic that they research. Moreover, Hitchens is an author and literary critic as well. The issue, however, is not one of qualifications, but of sources. Since the site requires collaboration and compromise rather than edit warring, I'll try to see if I can get an admin to help clear this up. Thanks. Nightscream 04:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Osenath

In Yalkut Yehoshua 9, Osenath is styled a proselyte —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.115.38.8 (talk) 12:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

These are the pious female proselytes--Hagar, Osenath, Zipporah, Shiphrah, Puah, the daughter of Pharaoh (Bathia), Rahab, Ruth, and Jael.

Yalkut Yehoshua, 9[3] --129.115.38.8 12:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

There is another Midrash that Shifrah and Puah were Yocheved and Miriam (Sifre B'ha'alotekha 78). In other words, Midrashim are not sufficient sources for these things. In classical understanding, the Jews were not obligated in the mitzvot until they received them at Mount Sinai, so Osenath could certainly not be a convert. --Eliyak T·C 00:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Biblical figures

I was creating a list of all people mentioned in the Bible. The List of Biblical figures mentioned the 12 sons of jacobs and some other notable figures but it is called List of Biblical figures so i moved it to List of Major Biblical figures and am now creating an article for all Biblical figures so that if you click Eldad for example it won't take you to the historian called Eldad ha-Dani but List_of_minor_Biblical_figures#Eldad it is important so as to insure there is an article for all biblical figures or at least a section on List of minor Biblical figures--75.43.79.38 19:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Jewish canon or Bible Canon

Hi Eliyak: I just came across the Jewish canon article. What to make of it is the big question. It draws partially from the Jewish Encyclopedia article. Maybe the entire Jewish Encyclopedia BIBLE CANON article should just be reproduced in its entirety? I will pose this question to the sages @ WP:JUDAISM. Thanks, IZAK 06:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Prophets in Judaism

there is a tradition that if a prophet's father's name is mentioned that means the father is also a prophet (I made in green the people who i know are prophets from the talmud) thus shouldn't adam, seth, Enos, ..., Amram also be prophets in Judaism?

adam

seth

Enos

Kenan

Mahalalel

Jared

Enoch

Methuselah

Lamech

noah

shem

Arpachshad

Shelah

Eber

Peleg

Reu

Serug

Nahor

Terah

Abraham

Isaac

Jacob

Levi

Kohath

amram

Moses --Java7837 14:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe the tradition refers to prophets who are known by their fathers name, like "Isaiah ben Amoz." --Eliyak T·C 05:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Please go to Talk:Islam_and_Judaism#Jewish_prophets_and_misconception there is a muslim making completely idiotic statements about Judaism please correct him--129.115.102.13 12:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Scholars

Hi, Seen this ? I reverted your category change just now because, a that debate is on, & b) the categories are so intertwined I think each being in the other is necessary here, as they are now. Johnbod (talk) 03:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Eliyak -- Relating to the above, see [4] and just below it, "Cycles should usually be avoided"; in particular that sometimes they're necessary. It depends on the subject. --Lquilter (talk) 12:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Surnames

I have started a discussion at Category talk:Surnames about Category:Surnames which I hope will be able to address the issues in common to the surnames category tree, without implicating issues particular to any one group of surnames. I'm posting this notice to all participants of the 11/11 CFD. --Lquilter (talk) 20:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hebrew Bible

I appreciate your edit summary from Yeshua 1. ;) Alastair Haines (talk) 06:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Categories for Intelligence (information gathering)

Thanks for reading the articles and adding that category, of which I was unaware. As you may have noticed (see my user page if not, which, in a couple of minutes, I'm going to reorganize to bring out topics), I've both initiated a series of intelligence articles, as well as on closely related subjects such as arms control verification and special operations.

I'll have to admit that I don't yet have a true sense of the use of categories. I'm wondering if we need more. "Espionage", for example, is something that is well down in an organized hierarchy (taxonomy if you will). Espionage is both one of a means of collecting (but not analyzing) information, but it's only one aspect of doing so. Realistically, many people coming to the subject think espionage = intelligence. Espionage is a subset of a subset, but we need to deal with both the person who wants a quick definition, and the person who really wants to understand the role of espionage, and, to a Wikipedia-appropriate level, how it is done.

There is a lot of information on fictional characters and TV shows in some of the current intelligence articles, which I'd really like to move to separate lists. Any thoughts would be welcome, and thanks again. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent! Do you think subcategories of intelligence(information gathering) would be appropriate? There is a key difference between gathering the intelligence and deciding what it means. In the meantime, I'll put this category into any articles you've missed. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 19:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. Now, I tend to think of intelligence gathering and intelligence analysis, as well as, for that matter, intelligence tasking and intelligence dissemination, as siblings. The parent is intelligence cycle management. The direct children of gathering, again from the view in this discipline, would be the "INTSs": IMINT, SIGINT, HUMINT, MASINT, TECHINT, OSINT. There are several things somewhat to the side, such as intelligence cycle security, of which counterintelligence, operations security, and a variety of other "SEC"s are children. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 20:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Jewish politicians

Hello Eliyak and Avraham,

I am contacting both of you for two reasons: First, to bring to your attention the change I made to Category:Jewish politicians, and second to ask for your assistance in proceeding with the next step.

In scoping out my further response to the CFD discussion that is under way for Category:Jewish politicians (and Category:Jewish American politicians), I immediately saw that Category:Israeli politicians was shown as a sub-cat. As you both understand, that is almost right, but not quite. Since both of you were recently involved in dealing with this issue, I thought you would like to know what I've done. My interim solution was to remove Category:Israeli politicians as a sub-cat, but also to post a prominent cross-link at the top of the page.

So now the question is, how best to finish the job? At this point, every Israeli politician needs to be placed in his/her appropriate category, either Category:Jewish Israeli politicians or Category:Arab Israeli politicians. (I don't think anybody falls outside of those two groups.) Arab Israeli politicians are few enough that I can take care of them myself, but I could really use some help with the Jewish Israeli politicians. Unless this task can be assigned to a bot, they will all need to be done manually.

Please respond on my talk page so our discussion proceeds in one place. Thank you! Regards, Cgingold 21:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know that I've replied at my user page. Cgingold 01:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Both Avraham and I have made further comments, please have a look. Cgingold 18:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Maaser Sheni

Hi, none of the maaser types are sanctified -- a Levite could sell the Maaser Sheni for example. The sellable/redeemable portions are redeemed with the coin, leaving a much smaller Terumah portion that has to be discarded. If the article doesn't explain this clearly it should be clarified. Best, --Shirahadasha 00:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Note: Artscroll's standard daily prayerbook has a section on for doing this with the formula & instructions. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Stamp

Here's a stamp from the Faroe Islands for you! Stamps from the Faroe Islands somehow promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving something friendly to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Make your own message to spread WikiLove to others! Happy editing! Vatomanocu (talk) 14:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

IDF Chief Military Rabbis

Hi Eliyak: In looking at the IDF's Military Rabbinate article, only Chief Military Rabbi Shlomo Goren has an article. Articles are still needed for rabbis:

• Mordechai Peron (1968-1977),
• Gad Navon (1977-2000),
• Israel Weiss (2000-2006),
• Avichai Rontzki (2006- ).

Happy Chanukah! Thanks, IZAK (talk) 13:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Assessment ratings

Hi Eliyak: I was asked the following, and I as I am not that active with the assessment project, perhaps you can help: "Hi, IZAK. Since I've been away, Wikiproject Judaism has introduced an assessment system on the discussion pages. I just upgraded and expanded the article on Shalom Zachar, which was rated Stub-class and has no importance rating. This article does not appear on the long list of articles that WikiProject Judaism would like to improve, but it did need improvement! How do I go about getting the editors to change the quality rating and add an importance rating now that I upgraded it? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 15:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)"

Thanks, IZAK (talk) 15:20, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Dear Eliyak, thank you for replying to my question. However, my real question is, how do I know if this article is High, Medium or Low interest? Do I assume that every Jewish ritual is High interest? And how do I judge the class? I think the article is at least A class now, but maybe someone else thinks it's only B class? Also, is anyone really looking at or updating these assessment ratings on the discussion pages, other than bots? Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 00:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute. I just saw that you upgraded the rating on the Shalom Zachar article. Still I would appreciate your answers to the above questions. I would really like to know who decides when the article rises above B class. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 00:09, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the more detailed explanation. When I looked at this, I was shocked that 80% of the Jewish articles are at the level of Stub or Start class! Either that means there's really a lot more work to do, or maybe we're setting too high a mark for ourselves? Yoninah (talk) 21:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to be an administrator?

Hi Eliyahu. I noticed that you've been writing a lot of articles lately, and I hope to see your draft of the Jews of Thessaloniki in mainspace. I'm here to offer to nominate you for administrator. I assume you're not too familiar with how this works - basically, admins get to delete or undelete pages, protect or unprotect pages so that other people can't edit them, or block and unblock users, all in accordance with policy. Adminship is a special access given to experienced users, but not all users want it; and if you get it, you don't have to use it. You become an administrator by following the procedure at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, answering a few questions, and then waiting a week while nerds like me discuss everything you've ever done. :)

I've nominated a few users for adminship in the past: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Haemo, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Bearian, and Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fabrictramp. I could write you a strong recommendation, and I think you would succeed, as most candidates do. If you prefer not to be burdened with administrator access so that you can stay focused on article writing, that's okay too.

In real life, I'm applying to graduate school in chemistry. Believe it or not, that physics course we took together actually counts for something! And I'm getting ready to learn even more. Best regards, Shalom (Hello • Peace) 03:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Rodent article categories

Hi Eliyak,

Thanks for working on trying to clean up the mess that is categorization of rodents. I wanted to point you to this discussion, encourage you to comment, and mostly encourage you in any further work you'd like to do in the area. --Aranae (talk) 17:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Category redirect formatting

I'm looking forward to reading your comments on Template talk:Category redirect#OK, let's discuss. --Russ (talk) 21:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

re Category:Noahides

no, don't worry, i agree with that name per common english usage. i was wondering is whether it should be cleaned up, ie confined to the 'denomination' itself by removing the articles about the story itself, except maybe for 'noah' & 'sons of noah'? any thoughts on this? thnx, ben  ⇒ bsnowball  07:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

can you help?

Please respond to Bikinibomb's comments about figs and Judaism (and, at this point, about Shirahadasha and other Jewish editors active on the page) here?

It applies to the article for which the link provided is the talk page, i.e. this. Someone wanted to add "fig" or "fig tree" to the glossary, claiming that it is a notable and important symbol for Christians. Someone wanted to add that it is a notable and important symbol for Jews. Perhaps you should read the discussion and draw your own conclusions.

However, if you want my summary of the discussion, here it is: When several other editors commented on the talk page that it is not an important symbol of Jews, Bikinibomb replied that (1) these Jewish editors are secular atheists and do not have the right to speak for religious Jews, (2) these Jewish editors are violating WP:NOR because they have no verifiable sources for their claims, whereas Bikinibomb has provided multiple sources - the first one on 17:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC), which is a post at the very top of this section of the talk page (3RR), but then in his 20:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC) post to the talk page, and (3) these Jewish editors are trying to embarass Judaism by making it look like Jews do not know their own religion. Bikinibomb by the way has stated that he is not Jewish. In the past 24 hours several Jewish editors have responded but he persists in his claims. My hope is that you can provide for him a more compelling argument or proof, but minimally, I think we need to show that there is a consensus among Jewish editors that his claims about Jewish beliefs are wrong. (assuming you agree with me that he is wrong, either in his specific claims about figs, or his more general claims about Jewish sources, or Judaism) (of course, even if you do not agree with me, I would welcome your comments/thoughts concerning the discussion if you have any!!) Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 13:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

organizations

Hi Eliyak -- thanks for doing the nom on the state associations => organizations. There's a lot of other work to do with the Category:Organizations tree; particularly in terms of trying to pull together the Category:Non-profit organizations, Category:Charities, and Category:Non-governmental organizations. I set out some of the points at a 12/31 CFD; it's just a proposed discussion, but input would be welcome. link. --Lquilter (talk) 23:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the changes you did for Template:orgsestcat -- damn, you rock! This is amazing. I'm going to export this code to Template:Polparsestcat, too. --Lquilter (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Query on template: Eliyak, on Orgsestcat, in the conditional expression for decade, you have an expression that adds an "s" to the category which works out for Category:Organizations established in the 1990s, for example. But you don't have a similar expression adding "th" to the century, but it still picks up Category:Organizations established in the 21st century. How does that work? --Lquilter (talk) 19:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Template:bibleverse-lb

I've made a suggestion for an enhancement to your template; see Template_talk:Bibleverse#Should_3rd_parameter_.28chapter_and_verse.29_be_optional_for_.7B.7Bbibleverse.7D.7D_and_.7B.7Bbibleverse-lb.7D.7D.3F. Wdfarmer (talk) 00:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Open source software move

Hi,

I've reverted this. Wikipedia uses the term "open source" rather than "open-source" in a majority of cases, and should aim to be consistent. In addition, the OSI (the closest thing the term has to an owner, or official body governing its use) uses "open source". Chris Cunningham (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Idea for Talmud articles

Hi Eliyak: I am reposting the following request from User Sh76us (talk · contribs) on my user talk page for wider notification:

I was thinking of trying to stimulate development of a series of articles on Gemara concepts and doctrines, maybe to help children or newcomers to Gemara with explanations of some fundamental concepts that recur throughout the Gemara. Some examples might be articles on Yiush, Chazakah, Ta'aninun (as in "Ta'aninun L'Yoresh"), Eidim Zomemin (forgive my awful transliterations), Migu, etc., etc. Maybe we could even create a category or subcategory for it. I created Breira in this vein. As I don't have the experience or expertise in Wikipedia to know what to do to best develop this idea, I figured I'd come to you for your opinions on: (1) whether it's a good idea; and (2) How to best go about implementing it. Thanks Sh76us (talk) 15:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Centralized discussion at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#Idea for Talmud articles. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 03:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Template awesomeness barnstar

		The Template Barnstar
		Awarded to Eliyak for awesomeness in template development on Template:Orgsestcat. Lquilter (talk) 19:51, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Eugene Eppley

Hey, just curious if there was a reason why you replaced Category:People from Omaha, Nebraska instead of simply adding the additional category? Simple mistake? • Freechild'sup? 11:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the particular rule or practice, although I see the logic of what you wrote. Please make any adjustments you see fit accordingly, so that if you remove Category:People from Omaha, Nebraska from the category it gets inserted into the article. I'm not sure which of the categories there to take out, so I'd appreciate your edits. Thanks. • Freechild'sup? 05:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Typo redirect Vive la révolution!

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Vive la révolution!, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Vive la révolution! is a redirect page resulting from an implausible typo (CSD R3).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Vive la révolution!, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 02:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Category:Glossary of education-related terms (dictionary format)

Thanks for the deletion notification of Category:Glossary of education-related terms (dictionary format) Dbiel ^(Talk) 20:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Mordechai Willig

Thanks for putting the ref list. Could you please fix the 3rd reference? Thanks, Happy138 (talk) 12:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Happy138 (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Congregation Kol Emes

Hi Eliyak. Kindly withdraw your nomination of the Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) article for deletion. See also my comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Kol Emes. Thank you, IZAK (talk)

IZAK's conduct

I have included a diff regarding IZAK in a request for comment which you may wish to view the RFC/U about IZAK here. Sincerely, Bstone (talk) 06:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable bible divisions

Hello. On a recent AfD, you commented that articles written on a chapter-by-chapter, verse-by-verse, or lection-by-lection, basis about the bible was not necessarily the best way to break up the subject matter.

I have proposed a guideline about this - at Wikipedia:Organisation of Bible articles, and I wonder if you would like to comment on it.

Clinkophonist (talk) 18:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Eliyak/History of the Jews of Thessaloniki

I think it's time to move this article to mainspace. I don't want to act against your wishes, but if you don't respond in a few days, I'm just going to go ahead, and if necessary you or I could ask for it to be deleted afterward.

What motivated me to mention this now was the fact that the French Wikipedia displayed their version of this article on the main page. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 03:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

congrats

see here. (your page is really long - you may want to rearchive). DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 15:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Please take over my articles

Hi Eliyak. I'm leaving Wikipedia for a while, so I won't be able to finish some articles on my writing list. If you could look at the drafts I've made at User:Shalom/Drafts and archives#Articles and see if you can make them into articles, I would thank you. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 16:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of excess categories on The Holocaust.

Good job!--Editor2020 (talk) 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:14c ed of the Guide for the Perplexed by Maimonides.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:14c ed of the Guide for the Perplexed by Maimonides.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 14:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

ancient china

its 1 of —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.87.120.92 (talk) 19:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Rav Kook & gentiles

A heads-up: I've started a discussion, Talk:Abraham_Isaac_Kook#R._Kook_and_gentiles, in response to an editor adding an anti-gentile quote to the Rav Kook entry. I hope you'll join in. Yudel (talk) 19:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)