User talk:Dirtlawyer1/Archives/2015/March

recent nominations

Why were you selective with the nominations? For some conferences, you seem to have nominated a whole batch of templates, but for the Ivy League, you did not nominate {{Ivy League medical school navbox}}, {{Ivy League law school navbox}}, and {{Ivy League business school navbox}}. What was your rationale?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• @TonyTheTiger: For two reasons: (1) there are actually supporting list articles for the Ivy League business, law and med schools; and (2) there is actually some reputational validity to the Ivy League law school grouping (and somewhat less so for the Ivy business and med schools; for the Ivy engineering schools, not at all). No one talks about ACC, Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12 or SEC law schools, etc., as a group. Because the three Ivy League templates are positioned somewhat differently, I plan to submit them separately in a day or two, and let the discussion participants consider those three on their own merits, without confusing the discussions for the other 22 "conference" navboxes submitted for deletion. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:24, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I am a bit befuddled by the whole Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_October_15#Template:Southeastern_Conference_university_president_navbox discussion. Doesn't that mean templates like Template:Big Ten Conference men's basketball coach navbox and Template:Big Ten Conference football coach navbox should be deleted for all conferences. Also doesn't it mean that leaguewide templates for coaches such as Template:NFL head coach navbox (and all the positional assistants such as Template:NFL defensive backs coach navbox), Template:NBACoach, etc. should be deleted.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    • @TonyTheTiger: No, university presidents/chancellors are primarily academic CEOs, not athletic administrators. For college sports, we have navboxes for head coaches and athletic directors; those personnel are directly related to conference sports. For present TfD purposes, there are two major principles in play: (1) these are primarily athletic conferences, not academic associations, and the business, engineering, law and med schools have little, if any, relationship to the sports conferences of which the parent universities are members; and (2) these navboxes do not satisfy the five WP:NAVBOX criteria. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
      • @TonyTheTiger: For the TfD nomination of the three navboxes of Ivy League business, law and medical schools, please see the related TfD discussion @ Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 March 2#Template:Ivy League business school navbox. As noted above, these three navboxes have been separately nominated for deletion because they are not identically situated to those AAC, ACC, Big Ten and Pac-12 conference navboxes listed above. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 06:26, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Some college football articles

Hi -- I know you're planning to do GA reviews at some point in the future, so I thought I'd mention something I noticed today. Take a look at Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Report which lists the oldest unreviewed nominations -- you'll see that three of them are college football related. If you're thinking of taking on a GA review, you might consider one (or all!) of these. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

link

Could need attention. Don't know its history. [1]. -DePiep (talk) 22:53, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

...and if this isn't about an GA review then its canvassing and that concerns me even more.(Littleolive oil (talk) 23:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC))

que? Funny you do this on someone else's talkpage while the topic is; trolling. 'Funny', as in: laughable. -DePiep (talk) 00:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The subject isn't trolling its canvassing and I originally misunderstood your comment here. Make of that what you will. (Littleolive oil (talk) 04:55, 26 January 2015 (UTC))

Littleolive oil So you misunderstood and then repeat your accusation. -DePiep (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Remember Precious? I could need an attorney, - a good lawyer is probably able to help both sides, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

helped, could explain myself that "or" is not "and" ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I returned from a great concert, "In te speravi" was part of the text (quoted before), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

"Hope is precious and great joy is found in living" is the first entry on my talk page, did you know? I kept it from 2014, when I let go of a lot of past. - You say "but I have never engaged in an edit war to add or remove one" [infobox]. The same is true for me, did you know? I have been proclaimed an edit warrior in Sparrow Mass, but see yourself if you have extra time. I am in search for an example for such an edit war, so far in vain. The evidence of the infoboxes case didn't supply one. It was evident that Andy had to be banned because he uncollapsed an infobox and placed it in the normal position. One arb commented "concerns me deeply", none of the colleagues corrected the obvious misinterpretation. Such is the solid foundation of the "decision". I worked on Kafka, it helps, - please excuse a bit of sarcasm, it also helps ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

In our concert, we sang "et in terra pax" (and on earth peace). Jenkins does that in a way I admire and didn't hear before (excuse OR): "et in terra" is strong and earthly, by all voices in unison in a long melisma, diminishing on the last syllable to nothing, leading to two measures of softest string music, then, just as softly, by the voices: pax. - I like this diminishing to listening. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Are you suggesting musical works to calm the breast of the savage beast? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

We had an edit conflict, perhaps your question is answered: I just mentioned peace again, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that already; I have your talk page watch-listed. I am guilty of using the word "aggressive" in recent discussions, but I can't find "extremely toxic personalities." That's good -- may I steal that? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:41, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I didn't link on purpose, because - repeating - I don't provide evidence against people ;) - I have a collection of links in the workshop on my user page, look for "toxic" followed by "flower" (if you really missed that which is hard to believe), See also here, you will find "toxic" under "Precious again", naturally. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Shame on me, I quoted wrong (from fading memory), it was "incredibly", not "extremely", - extremely sorry --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Keep simple

In the Review, many people argue with many words how to restrict one person. I said what I had to say in a few words which probably stay unnoticed, as in the last round (including: you can't kill an idea by silencing a few people). You used the term Peacemaker yesterday, - I would like to deserve it. I didn't for a show of forum-shopping ;)

My advice for a peace treaty would be simple: recommend that every (!) editor in (infobox) discussions would think twice about a second revert in the same matter, and three times about a third comment in the same. Can you word that in legal language to the arbitrators. - I like Chopin. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

A little later, no more need to talk to the arbitrators. (It's on record: the one thing I learned on Wikipedia is patience. Look for "The arbitration committee functions like this ...".) - What do think of William Burges? Palladio - Palladio? - My slogan (on my user page, image on talk)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about this edit?

Hello, I was wondering if this edit [2] is normal procedure in pages?UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Uh, no. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:21, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I've never seen anything like that in a decade of editing on Wikipedia. I have removed the barnstars from both the article and talk page. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:36, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

On second thought, maybe we should give Mario the Nobel Peace Prize for defeating Bowser. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Dara Torres

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 11:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Tommy Bartlett

Dirt, I replied on my page but figured I would here, too. I forgot to add the footnote, but you all are doing such a nice job with the references, maybe you should add it. http://tshf.net/halloffame/bartlett-thomas-g/ Now defunct Knoxville High put out some notable alumns. BTW, I will be talking with Coach Bartlett in about one hour -- no kidding.BillVol (talk) 20:21, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Also, #12 is a dead link on Bartlett's page. I'm still learning how to do this editing, so I'll let you handle it. But what is the best way to do that? Delete the reference? Say it is a dead link? Correct the link?BillVol (talk) 20:25, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Bill. Please tell Coach Bartlett that there are still some old-time Gators who fondly remember him, Neal Walk, Andy Owens and the rest of his '69 Gators team. That was a good bunch of Gators. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:38, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@BillVol: P.S. Bill -- ask the coach what his birth date is: we only have his birth year! Fixed the TSHOF footnote link. More from me later. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I will let him know, Dirt. BTW, have to pass along this funny story. I'm a UT fan as you probably can tell already, but I love hoops stuff anywhere. I had always wanted to see famed Alligator Alley (Florida Gymnasium). About '92 or so while on vacation, I detoured onto campus to see it. It was now a student rec facility (maybe still is). A student was checking IDs. I told him, "I'm not a student, but I really would like to see Alligator Alley." He replied, "What is that?" LOL An indication of how much time had passed. I was a little upset that the youngster did not know his history, though, so I sorta snapped at him, "You're in it!" With that, I got to go into a classic basketball facility, and it was awesome.BillVol (talk) 20:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, just talked to Coach Bartlett and his wife, Essie. Birthdate of Coach is June 6, 1928. Quick conversation. I passed along your comments and good wishes. I know it's not appropriate to do this, but I have some good Gator stuff from 1972. If you want to email me, it is my screen name at yahoo.com. If not, I understand fully. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BillVol (talk • contribs) 21:07, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Bill, I will ping you from my personal email address.

Re "Alligator Alley," by the time I was an undergraduate in the early 1980s, Florida Gym had been replaced by the O'Dome for several years. It was used primarily by the College of Health and Human Performance and occasionally for intramural sports. I saw Gators games played there when I was a kid, but never as a student. The Alley was small, and I saw games in several Florida high school gyms that were bigger. I understand it was an absolutely miserable venue to play, and originally was not air-conditioned. My memories of Florida Gym as a student included its use for registration and add-drop my first couple of years, as well as the fraternity intramurals volleyball championship game in '84 or '85. I don't think I've set foot in the building since I got my undergrad degree, but I still remember the old-style wooden pull-out fan seating that collapsed against the walls. When I'm back in Gainesville now for a game or alumni event, my usual circuit is Florida Field, the O'Dome, the law school and the business campus. Next time I'm in town, I really need to take a half day and do a walking tour of the main campus -- there have been a lot of changes in the last 30 years. As for the youngsters, well, they've been spoiled by Spurrier, Donovan and Meyer; they expect to win national championships now. History started in 1990, y'know? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:22, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Dirt, did you get my emailings? Or did someone sneaky make up an email addy and contact me pretending to be you?BillVol (talk) 14:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Received and reviewed, Bill. Interesting stuff; I never knew that Gators basketball history was tangentially tied to the '75 Chile coup against Allende. It is indeed a small world.

Next time you talk to the coach, please confirm that his birthplace was Knoxville; I assume that was the case, but like his birthdate, I have no reliable source for it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, will do. The coup was actually in '73. The date was 9/11 of '73. Chileans point out that they have their own version of 9/11.BillVol (talk) 17:25, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Jock Hanvey

Any sources to find Jock Hanvey's involvement in the University of Florida? His obituary says he played there after Clemson, and his profile on lostlettermen says he coached there. Would appreciate any help. There seem to be multiple members of the family nicknamed Jock, to make it worse. Cake (talk) 08:31, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Cake, I checked the Gators media guide: no lettermen named "Hanvey" (or "Harvey" or the like) since 1906. Also, no assistant coach named "Hanvey" or anything similar, although assistant coach records for the early 1900s may not be reliable. If he really had some connection to the University of Florida since 1906, he more likely was an assistant rather than a player. The list of lettermen appears to be pretty good and I searched for 1906, 1907 and 1908 and found no similar names present. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 11:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I also checked the University of Florida online alumni directory (members-only access), and found four named "Hanvey," including one dead guy named "W. H. Hanvey" -- apparently not your guy. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:20, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

There is one other possibility, but I caution you that it is 100% conjecture with no documentary evidence. The first Florida football coach in 1906 was Jack Forsythe, who also the last coach of the old Florida State College team in 1904. Forsythe also played for Clemson in 1901, 1902 and 1903, and almost certainly knew Hanvey. It is possible that Hanvey was either a player or an assistant for Forsythe in 1904 at Florida State College, but I have no way of checking. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:38, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for checking on him. I wondered whether I had perhaps found another one of those predecessor institutions coaches a la Forsythe or M. O. Bridges. I suppose it would make sense if, say, he handled the backs while Forsythe handled the line. This fellow remains an enigma for there are multiple Hanveys nicknamed "Jock" (George and "J. T." (think the J is John) are at least two others, see here that Clemson itself is probably no less confused) along with the odd Florida and Virginia Tech connections. Cake (talk) 14:24, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Three or four years ago, I was determined to resolve the ambiguity surrounding Forsythe's proper first name. Among other avenues, I contacted the Clemson athletic department and the Clemson alumni association. The results of that original research are summarized in the first footnote of the Forsythe bio. The Clemson athletic department was clueless; the SID assistant with whom I spoke was not even aware that Heisman had been the Clemson football coach in the early 1900s, and their roster records included obvious nicknames ("Pee Wee Forysthe") rather than full names. Frustratingly, the alumni association was very cooperative, but most of their early 1900s records were entered with initials only, rather than full names ("J. A. Forsythe"). If we had time, and original research were permitted on Wikipedia, the ultimate solution would be to track down the families. I might add that these documentation problems are inevitable when we push the margins of Wikipedia's "notability" concept; often, there is simply not enough significant coverage in independent reliable sources to sustain a viable article. Stitching bios together from alumni directories, team media guides, death records, and a small handful of one-sentence mentions in newspapers is problematic, and by no means a proper measure of Wikipedia notability. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Got Forsythe for you – been to Brevard, nice white squirrels. Cake (talk) 01:29, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Well done, Cake. Mystery solved: you restored the man's name, and restored my faith in the Florida football media guide (which was previously the only source for Forsythe's first name being "James"). Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

He mentioned that early SC game as one of the first below North Carolina, and Clemson listed him as from North Carolina (but didnt say where; practically everyone else was somewhere specific in SC). The practice of only the initials can be tiresome. Georgia Tech does it too; could it have been Heisman's influence? Cake (talk) 04:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

The initials-only thing seems to have been quite common in academia in the 1800s and early 1900s. Seems the coaches picked up on it. Many of the early 20th Century coaches were originally listed initial only on Wikipedia and College Football Data Warehouse. It's taken longer to find the full names for the more obscure ones like Forsythe. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Category:NCAA players et al

Hi DL. I just discovered Category:NCAA players, Category:NCAA Division II ice hockey players, and Category:NCAA Division III ice hockey players. Obviously these are problematic and should not exist due to a well-established, wide ranging precedent on how college athletes' category structures are concerned. I don't have the time to set up a CfD, but if you do I'd definitely chime in on it. I'm reaching out to you because you do a nice job at explaining your reasons at deletion discussions. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:06, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Jrcla2: Hey. I started looking at these college hockey categories last night, and comparing them to the other NCAA sports categories. Apart from sorting college players by NCAA Division II and III, which is clearly odd, there are some hockey-specific issues like the Canadian CIS player categories -- I guess I should compare that to how categories for CIS football players are structured. There are some other elements that I thought were a little different, too; I'll ping you back later in the week after I've had a chance to review the college hockey category tree in its entirety. I'll also want to bounce this off the NHL hockey project guys, so they don't think we're poaching on their turf. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:35, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Sounds good. Thanks for looking into it! Jrcla2 (talk) 20:30, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

GA review of WFB, Jr.

Hi Dirtlawyer - thank you for volunteering on William F. Buckley, Jr. The only collaborating I've done on the article so far is the citation I added today. I actually stumbled across it in my search for conformity regarding section titles and content for BLP authors. The article looked worthy of promotion to GA with a little tweaking, so I figured why not? I'll run a few tools to see how it pans out, tweak it here and there, nominate it and steward the review since you're willing to take it on. I'll run a few review tools and get it as close to ready as I can, and then ping you. Is that ok? Atsme☯^Consult 22:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

One more

You might be missing a page LOL [3].—Bagumba (talk) 20:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Might have happened. But I doubt it. Like Papa Bagumba always told you, "anything worth doing, is worth doing right." *grin* Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:11, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Notifying WikiProjects about TfDs

Perhaps, in place of or in addition to leaving a TfD notice, it'd be a good idea to encourage editors to place the article alert page of WikiProjects of their interest on their watchlist. Alakzi (talk) 01:11, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

• Agreed, sir. In order for that to work, don't the templates have to have been tagged with the particular WikiProject template? I've encountered quite a few that have never been tagged . . . Some WPs are very diligent about tagging everything within their scope; others, well, not so much. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:22, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Yeah, they need to be tagged. The bot runs once-daily (I believe), so there might be up to a 24h delay—if a template's tagged immediately after it's been nominated. Alakzi (talk) 01:25, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

(watching) I never understood why a project would need to be notified. If the project members don't notice in their daily work that a template used in an article tehy watch is tagged for discussion, that template is obviously not of much interest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:08, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Gerda, apart from basic courtesy in notifying a WikiProject about a pending TfD within its scope, very often WP members are the best source of information about a given infobox, navbox, etc., and its history, purposes, etc. Contrary to the paradigm where WP members are presumed to always be opposed to a proposed deletion or merge, very often the WikiProject will want to eliminate a given template because it is contrary to established formatting or other practices. One of the reasons templates are not tagged is because they were created by editors who are not WP members or even aware of the WP's existence. I can point to a dozen or more TfDs that are presently stalled for lack of knowledgeable participation (or any participation at all); sometimes the best way to break those logjams is to notify the applicable WikiProject(s) and solicit knowledgeable input. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 08:38, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Gator baseball

Hey Dirt, I was wondering your opinion on this article: List of Florida Gators baseball seasons. Do you find it to be redundant, considering there is a full year-by-year records table at Florida Gators baseball#Year-by-year results? There only appears to be twelve such list articles on Wikipedia. The table used on the list article, however, is clearly better in my opinion since it includes more information and is consistent with other such tables on Wiki. What do you think about deleting the List article and using it to replace the table on the the main Baseball article? ~ Richmond96 T • C 17:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hey, R96. The list of seasons article is not redundant, and could be quite helpful if it were done properly. With almost 100 seasons to date (Gators baseball started in 1912, but missed several seasons because of the world wars), it's probably a good idea to have a daughter article for the seasons list. That being said, I'm not enamored of the formatting of either the list of seasons article, nor that of the season list in the main baseball team article. The key in presenting such lists is to incorporate core data in an easy-to-read "at-a-glance" format, while excluding too much detail. If you want an example of how not to do it, look at the Florida women's lacrosse article, where someone has tried to incorporate the team's entire post-season history into the individual lines of the seasons list.
  

Why don't you look at the various Gators seasons lists, give it some thought, and let's discuss the potential formats for these lists in a few days. Creating a uniform format for all of the Gators teams' season lists has been on my to-do list for a long while, and it's time we do something about it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:24, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Alright, will do. Would you say that the full list of seasons should not be included in both the Baseball page and a standalone article? ~ Richmond96 T • C 17:53, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Once the stand-alone list article is reworked, we would link to the list in the main article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about this year-by-year records table? ~ Richmond96 T • C 00:32, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

@Richmond96: Well, it's certainly a better choice than most of the do-it-yourself tables we've got for the Gators teams. But wouldn't it be an improvement if we included the season high-scorers? Think about it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Ha. Of course. Do you think I should go ahead and work on replacing the Florida table with this? ~ Richmond96 T • C 02:06, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Why don't you try it out on the baseball, lacrosse, or women's tennis team (or one of the other really awful ones), and then let's talk. I'd like to be completely settled on the format before we change them all, and we probably need to consider all of the sport-specific variations before we do. Thanks for following up about this. It really needs to be done, and I'm embarrassed that I haven't dealt with it myself. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

No shame in that, Dirt. I brought up the game stat leader issue three years ago and, well, here we are. P. S., do leave your opinion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#Tournament scores and seeding in infoboxes, if you feel so inclined. ~ Richmond96 T • C 02:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Template changes

Before saving your changes like your recent one, you should preview them using the "Preview page with this template" box below the "Save page" button. Just enter in an article that uses the template you are editing to preview what it looks like. Assuming you are still getting the hang of things, you might even just want to tinker with things in a sandbox first and test—Bagumba (talk) 04:19, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Yup. You're right. I did hit the review button, and it looked fine on the template page. I got the short explanation on Alakzi's talk page, so I assume that it screwed up the template transclusions in actual use. How good are you with template coding? I want to tinker with the borders and some other formatting of the present sandbox template. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:34, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

I can manage to hack my way around existing templates to add/change fields. I usually don't do much with color, shading, etc. FYI: if you made your own sandbox template, you would access it using syntax like {{User:Dirtlawyer1/sandbox}} —Bagumba (talk) 04:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Infobox college football player: HOF link

Hey Dirtlaywer1, are we not using the College Football Hall of Fame year and ID any longer? I noticed it wasn't in the infobox, but I've run across a member of the HoF. I was going to leave it if we were still using it; if not, I'll remove it. Corky | Chat? 01:21, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Corkythehornetfan: To be decided, but I would say we are likely to continue using the built-in link, Corky. The changes to the template this past weekend were a rush-job, so there may be some template functions that are currently not working or are working imperfectly. The CFBHOF link is one of the template functions to be resolved by an !vote of WP:CFB members and others on the template talk page. This will not be overlooked -- it's on my to-do list. Promise. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:34, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good. So should I leave there until a final decision is made? Corky | Chat? 01:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

• Definitely leave all existing fields, including the CFBHOF link, in place for the time being, Corky. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:41, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Alrighty, thanks! Corky | Chat? 01:44, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Comment

Don't really notice anything different with the college football infobox other than the top parameters don't display beside each other anymore and the stats link is bigger. Also for the NFL infobox, do you know why the debut team is now bolded with a colon, the colors changed (I think they alternated before) and the stats aren't really just evenly straight down anymore. Doesn't really matter, just wondering. Also, why is there a line separating any stats that aren't the nfl link now (see Eddie Johnson (linebacker)). WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 16:42, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

• @WikiOriginal-9: Re Infobox college football player: One of the things I have discovered is that a large percentage of the teams listed under the "career history" are improperly linked to the parent colleges or universities (e.g., "University of Florida (1999–2002"), instead of properly pipe-linked to the specific college football team article (e.g., "Florida (1999–2002)"). I assume you know the proper pipe-linking format: "[[Florida Gators football|Florida]] (1999–2002)". There are still several hundred that are improperly listed as such; I could really use your help cleaning these up. Are you up for it? There will be a lot more clean-up when the new Template:Infobox college football player is finalized, but we're not there yet. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

• Re Infobox NFL player, there have been some temporary changes made to facilitate new standard coding for infobox parameter labels. No final decisions have been made regarding the graphics, colors, and layout and design for Infobox NFL player, and I envision that we will go through a similar discussion process for that template as we have for Infobox college football player. I have already taken steps to organize that discussion, but I've been largely consumed with issues related to the CFB player infobox. I'd like to finish the CFB infobox discussion first, because I think that will simplify the NFL infobox discussion in the near future. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The new debut bolding, colons and stats are fine. The line is the only thing that might need changed. Also, since there is only one color now, the font colors might have to be changed. I am not sure that Cam Newton's infobox should just have black lines for the Panthers. Maybe it should though lol. Also, for the college football team linking, you probably know but just in case, it isn't a result of the changes. I just checked and Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota have both been saying "University". I have seen people making new articles and linking it to "Blank University", so I don't know if people actually think it's wrong or whatever for college football articles. I'll change ones I come across. College basketball uses the "team" linking too. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 18:01, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

In an idiot-proof world, an editor would need only add the college name, then the template would figure out the right team article. I could have swore I've seen some template that does that before, but it was probably sport specific.—Bagumba (talk) 18:14, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Bagumba, the "pastteams" parameter in Infobox college football player is not presently a dynamic parameter, but is coded as a "plainlist" parameter that permits the entry of two or three college teams (for transfers) in chronological sequence followed by unlinked year tenures following each pipe-linked team. If someone can create a dynamic parameter that does not complicate the template beyond the easy use of a typical editor, I would be in favor of that, but ease of use must be the primary consideration. That's one of the reasons we deprecated the "currentposition" dynamic parameter in Infobox NFL player: its use with parenthetically disambiguated position articles became too error-prone for the typical editor and created more maintenance problems than it solved. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I tend to agree; too much "automagic" can be harmful. I quite like the current arrangement. It saves editors from having to use {{Plainlist}}, so it's exactly like adding a list in prose. Alakzi (talk) 18:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

WO-9, re Infobox college football player, yes, many of the college team links have been erroneously entered with links to the universities, not the teams. If you see any editors creating new articles with such links, let me know, and I will gently read them the riot act. There are all sorts of issues out there, including quite a few non-notable subjects that need to be sent to AfD. Keep a list of those issues, but let's ignore them for the time being, and focus on fixing the team links. My ultimate focus will be on improving high-priority articles for consensus All-Americans and major award winners, but, well . . . one problem at a time. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:19, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

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