User talk:DanTD/Archive. February 2013
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U.S. Highway 431 in Indiana listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect U.S. Highway 431 in Indiana. Since you had some involvement with the U.S. Highway 431 in Indiana redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Detcin (talk) 01:00, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Parkway Limited
See [1]. It didn't use the ex-PRR station, at least not at first. No idea why not. Mackensen (talk) 22:50, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Aw, that's disappointing. Do you suppose there was a plan to build a new station before the service folded? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- That's a good question; it's not clear to me whether PennDOT ever saw it as more than a short-term expedient (obviously local boosters hoped for more). I'm still digging in to all these abortive attempts at commuter rail in the early 80s (see CalTrain for another) and it's not clear to me what sufficed for a station then. Mackensen (talk) 00:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Add the references FIRST
Don't add material and then source it. Source it to reliable, independent sources, and THEN add it.—Kww(talk) 05:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- It's kind of difficult to add references when the lines they're intended for aren't available. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 05:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- That's what an article history is for. I'll wait until next week to clean things up again, but I will remove every item that is not sourced to a source independent of the item being sourced where the cited reference discusses the element in relation to the topic "New York City Subway in popular culture". That means anything referenced to a script, unreliable sources such as IMDB, anything with a {{cn}} tag, or to the work itself. Remember that your sources have to be discussing the topic of "New York City Subway in popular culture", not the work. A source saying "the TMNT live in the subway" won't cut it: it will need to be something along the lines of "the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles living in the subway illustrates the impact of the New York City Subway in popular culture by ...". To be honest, I don't think that more than three lines of that article will ever be able to be properly sourced.—Kww(talk) 06:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Excuse me, but an actual script from a site of the creator of a TV show is the best source you can get, especially when they describe scenes on subway trains. That's what those scripts from Jeff Goode's website are. The same goes for the the image from a Sesame Street episode, although if it were in the commons, I wouldn't do it in that manner. I haven't added anything from IMDb, but I have added images from IMCDB that show the very subway scenes you prefer to cast doubt upon. Nevertheless, if you keep trying to ditch every line, nobody can add sources, and all you end up transform the list into a complete waste, which is what you ended up doing. And when you start doing this, it makes me suspect that you want to have it deleted. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 06:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Absolutely the article needs to be deleted. The thing has survived two deletion attempts, but no editor has added a single suitable source. The sources you have added do not support the relevance of the facts to the topic. I don't doubt that the subway has been pictured in various films and shows, what I doubt is that there is anything about this particular list of scenes that make them relevant. The article isn't "Random list of television and movie scenes where an image of the New York City Subway appears". The sources you have added would be fine for that article, not for this one.—Kww(talk) 14:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Both deletion attempts were DEAD WRONG. If you get rid of this, you might as well get rid of all "in popular culture" lists. If you think the sources I've added don't support the relevance or facts, you clearly have a bad habit of ignoring those sources. Frankly, I'm starting to think this an I just don't like it thing with you. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- I simply firmly support WP:V's insistence that we base articles on independent third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, and the article is not based on independent third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.—Kww(talk) 15:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- So, how can you say any of these sources don't verify any of the statements? Two facts about the Jeff Goode links; 1)Jeff Goode is the creator of American Dragon: Jake Long. 2)The lines for those scripts do describe scenes that take place on the New York City Subway system. If that's not verification of the facts stated in the list, I don't know what else is, and I'm not going to seek some illegal downloads on YouTube that some kid made. -------User:DanTD (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- It doesn't demonstrate that any reliable source believes that the fact that these characters occasionally ride the subway has any relevance to the topic of the "New York City Subway in popular culture". Like I said, if the article title was "Random television appearances of the New York City Subway", that citation would be fine for supporting inclusion on the list. Of course, we would never have an article like that, and this article shouldn't be that article hiding under a different name.—Kww(talk) 16:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- These aren't really that random, and the list covers all forms of media where the subways are used, including television. So there's no way you can say it's something else "hiding under a different name," because it's not hiding. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 17:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- "Random" isn't really right word. "Original research" is more accurate: by using only primary sources, the article is a list of Wikipedia editors' personal opinions as to what is important, and Wikipedia is not supposed to reflect editors' opinions, it's supposed to reflect reliable sources.—Kww(talk) 17:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, but I still don't see how all the links I've submitted can be considered OR. Last night while looking for one for Midnight Cowboy, I saw one of Jon Voight on an empty subway car. I didn't see one with Dustin Hoffman on any part of the subway system, so I didn't submit it. I'll still keep looking, but for you to eliminate everything makes the process too much of a hassle. -------User:DanTD (talk) 17:28, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- "Random" isn't really right word. "Original research" is more accurate: by using only primary sources, the article is a list of Wikipedia editors' personal opinions as to what is important, and Wikipedia is not supposed to reflect editors' opinions, it's supposed to reflect reliable sources.—Kww(talk) 17:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- These aren't really that random, and the list covers all forms of media where the subways are used, including television. So there's no way you can say it's something else "hiding under a different name," because it's not hiding. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 17:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- It doesn't demonstrate that any reliable source believes that the fact that these characters occasionally ride the subway has any relevance to the topic of the "New York City Subway in popular culture". Like I said, if the article title was "Random television appearances of the New York City Subway", that citation would be fine for supporting inclusion on the list. Of course, we would never have an article like that, and this article shouldn't be that article hiding under a different name.—Kww(talk) 16:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- So, how can you say any of these sources don't verify any of the statements? Two facts about the Jeff Goode links; 1)Jeff Goode is the creator of American Dragon: Jake Long. 2)The lines for those scripts do describe scenes that take place on the New York City Subway system. If that's not verification of the facts stated in the list, I don't know what else is, and I'm not going to seek some illegal downloads on YouTube that some kid made. -------User:DanTD (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- I simply firmly support WP:V's insistence that we base articles on independent third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, and the article is not based on independent third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.—Kww(talk) 15:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Both deletion attempts were DEAD WRONG. If you get rid of this, you might as well get rid of all "in popular culture" lists. If you think the sources I've added don't support the relevance or facts, you clearly have a bad habit of ignoring those sources. Frankly, I'm starting to think this an I just don't like it thing with you. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Absolutely the article needs to be deleted. The thing has survived two deletion attempts, but no editor has added a single suitable source. The sources you have added do not support the relevance of the facts to the topic. I don't doubt that the subway has been pictured in various films and shows, what I doubt is that there is anything about this particular list of scenes that make them relevant. The article isn't "Random list of television and movie scenes where an image of the New York City Subway appears". The sources you have added would be fine for that article, not for this one.—Kww(talk) 14:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- Excuse me, but an actual script from a site of the creator of a TV show is the best source you can get, especially when they describe scenes on subway trains. That's what those scripts from Jeff Goode's website are. The same goes for the the image from a Sesame Street episode, although if it were in the commons, I wouldn't do it in that manner. I haven't added anything from IMDb, but I have added images from IMCDB that show the very subway scenes you prefer to cast doubt upon. Nevertheless, if you keep trying to ditch every line, nobody can add sources, and all you end up transform the list into a complete waste, which is what you ended up doing. And when you start doing this, it makes me suspect that you want to have it deleted. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 06:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
- That's what an article history is for. I'll wait until next week to clean things up again, but I will remove every item that is not sourced to a source independent of the item being sourced where the cited reference discusses the element in relation to the topic "New York City Subway in popular culture". That means anything referenced to a script, unreliable sources such as IMDB, anything with a {{cn}} tag, or to the work itself. Remember that your sources have to be discussing the topic of "New York City Subway in popular culture", not the work. A source saying "the TMNT live in the subway" won't cut it: it will need to be something along the lines of "the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles living in the subway illustrates the impact of the New York City Subway in popular culture by ...". To be honest, I don't think that more than three lines of that article will ever be able to be properly sourced.—Kww(talk) 06:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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