Charvak157
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The article Siddi Masud has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.
If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp/dated}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. King Onyx (talk) 12:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Fulaji Prabhu Deshpande moved to draftspace edit
An article you recently created, Fulaji Prabhu Deshpande, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. John B123 (talk) 12:57, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
April 2020 edit
Hello, I'm Minorax. An edit you recently made to Maratha Navy seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want more practice editing, the sandbox is the best place to do so. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Minorax (talk) 05:39, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Give me a ping when you're finished so I can have another read, as I do like my history!! Cheers. Govvy (talk) 13:25, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks Govvy. But I need your help. The touch screen of my mobile is not working hence I am not able to press some buttons. I want to add the article to the categories of 1) conflicts in 1672 2) Imperial Maratha Conquests But I am not able to do it because of the touchscreen problem. Please add the article in the above mentioned categories. Charvak157 (talk) 13:34, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
May 2020 edit
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Sambhaji, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that.
The sources in the text support the information. You may start a discussion on the article talk page if you have solid reason to think that those sources are not reliable – but please do not remove sourced information until you have a clear consensus in favour of not using those sources bonadea contributions talk 11:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
- I noticed that you had started a discussion, but all you did was state that the existing sources are all wrong, without providing any sources to support that claim. You don't need to use any fancy templates to do that on a talk page – simply provide the contending sources you rely on for your argumentation. I assume that those are the ones you used in Sacking of Burhanpur (1681). --bonadea contributions talk 11:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
- On a different but related matter, Wikipedia articles must not be used as platforms to change people's minds as in the section "Sambhaji's conduct with people of Burhanpur". That kind of persuasive argumentation does not belong in Wikipedia articles. --bonadea contributions talk 11:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Ok fine, I agree. But guide me on how can I achieve this consensus. How can I present my sources and arguments, how should I structure it? I have read a lot of books about Sambhaji in the past 12 years. I have read books which portray Sambhaji as cruel, addicted, womanizer. I have also read books which describe Sambhaji as Great, military and administrative genius, a caring king. My attempt is to ensure that people across the world are not misled about Sambhaji because of these old biased references. New references are more accurate and many are still being discovered. Portuguese and British sources have also depicted his qualities as a general and administrator. Charvak157 (talk) 12:16, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Ways to improve Siddi Masud edit
Hello, Charvak157,
Thank you for creating Siddi Masud.
I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:
This has been tagged for two issues.
The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Boleyn}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.
Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.
Boleyn (talk) 07:42, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I will try to solve these issues Charvak157 (talk) 09:33, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Respected editor there are mistakes in Wikipedia information or Sambhaji..all the information have been just based on old and limited references..of English and Marathi historian.not a single english and later Marathi historian have discovered any extra material other than writings of bakhar and other historians work. (One of the example is Sambhaji's capture ..all historian and in biography of Aurangzeb it is mentioned as Sambhaji was with kalash kavi at sangmeshwar doused in wine and women and therefore was caught by Mughals but Historian V S Bendre has proved with historical documents and letters that Sambhaji was at sangmeshwar for resolving a land related matter of two yadav brothers . My point to say is many such things related to Sambhaji which were not mentioned previously were uncovered later ..and Wikipedia is stoy using old false references) .( Another notable reference is that Sambhaji accused of misbehavior with brahamin women which is mentioned in chitnis bakhar is false because the writer of chitnis bakhar Mentions the date of misbehavior during which Sambhaji was not on fort then how did incident happened) i would like you to consider new information and historical facts uncovered by vs Bendre , Kamal Gokhale, jaysinghrao Pawar... All are historians... with extensive research done on Sambhaji.. waiting for your reply .thank you Zeisteno (talk) 11:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
You are Absolutely right Zeisteno. I am trying my best to find these authentic reliable sources about Sambhaji's life, By Kamal Gokhale, Jaysingrao Pawar, V.S.Bendrey but it is difficult to access them due to the coronavirus lockdown. I will definitely get these sources once the coronavirus situation normalises, till then I. trying my best to promote true history of Sambhaji. I am glad that somebody is there on Wikipedia who supports me, and has the same stand about Sambhaji. Your contribution will be crucial to convince the wikipedia community to change the wrong references in this article. Thank you so much. Looking forward to working with you. Cheers Charvak157 (talk) 11:42, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you charvak for reply..i will try my best to support you..even i have tried on Wikipedia to get Sambhaji Maharaj information corrected..glad to know there's someone else too doing that... actually I have hands on some material related.to Sambhaji.i can share with you... thank you Zeisteno (talk) 12:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak you can start with dr jaysinghrao Pawar's book "Chatrapati Sambhaji ek chikitsa " it is short book and has analysed the references materials such as bakhars , point of view of Historians , dramatist...it's a good starting point .... Zeisteno (talk) 15:36, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Zeisteno, thanks for your suggestions, I will definitely get the book. We'll keep in touch. I will notify you once I get these books. You can also share whatever information you have related to the topic.Thanks, cheers Charvak157 (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
And also if you know any sources please do tell..thankse Zeisteno (talk) 16:07, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes.. definitely Zeisteno (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Friend, you don't seem to have a user page, I suggest you to create an user page of yourself on Wikipedia, which will allow other Wikipedians to know your work on Wikipedia, your fields of interest and expertise. This will help you to present yourself on Wikipedia. Charvak157 (talk) 16:13, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
fCharvak thank you for suggestion but as of now I want to talk and work through your page and this section.as you are already an editor and have Page.but I will consider your suggestion.thank you looking forward to work together. Zeisteno (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah sure! Charvak157 (talk) 04:47, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey one small note..this is my new account..name..same name.just small change..just thought to notify you thanks.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Yup noted. Thanks Charvak157 (talk) 15:42, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello,Charvak i hope you are doing good..so are book's of historian trying to get available for sell?...what is the situation..? Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend, I am doing perfectly well. Those books are available on the internet, I can buy the books from the net. But the problem is that, I am currently in a coronavirus red-zone hotspot. My area is sealed and we have some cases in our neighborhood. Hence we have decided not to do online shopping till the seal gets lifted. I will buy those books as soon as the restrictions get lifted. Cheers, stay safe and take care. Charvak157 (talk) 09:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Okay charvak.. notify once you get them..so we can start with corrections.take care.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 10:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes sure, definitely we'll do those corrections based on facts and real history. Charvak157 (talk) 10:51, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Zeisteno,even though I have not been able to convince the Wikipedians about Sambhaji yet. Still, I have created many new articles about his achievements and military victories and campaigns. The information about his Victorious campaigns was totally a absent from Wikipedia. Or it was given in a very biased. Hence I have created many new seperate individual articles about Sambhaji's great battles and campaigns. By doing this I have continued my work of highlighting the true history of Sambhaji Maharaj. Please see the following articles using the given link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Battles_fought_by_Marathas_under_Sambhaji Charvak157 (talk) 13:44, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Whenever I get time, I go on creating new pages on the life of Sambhaji, trying to bring forth his true history to the world. I will create few more pages in the following months. Thank you Charvak157 (talk) 13:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey charvak great work...like an Idea of creating new page..great..btw what proves Wikipedian's what exactly..? Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:44, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak really appreciate your intiative man....we will get more information..so we will be able to add more in battle pages..and other aspects...of life...am trying to get access to more resources... people might object on novel references too..so will have to provide..with historical.. .data, facts...i am trying to get more information.. I will share as soon as I get... keep it up.....
. Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:54, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Yed, thanks buddy, we'll continue our good work Charvak157 (talk) 17:47, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Do you know anything about literary life of sambhaji that's book's and poems.. by him.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 19:48, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Sambhaji has written many books. Some in Sanskrit and others in Braj dialect of Hindi. He has written his 'Budhbhushan' on politics and governance in Sanskrit He has also written 3 other books namely 'Saatsatak', 'Nakhshika' and 'Nayikabhed' in Braj Hindi. Charvak157 (talk) 08:19, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok. We should try to make Page on literary contribution as well ..this part of king is not highlighted much...as many sources have not mentioned.. literary works. much...not instantly.. but in future as we will get more information ,, what do you think?
Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:58, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
And also how we are going to approach to this topic are we going to .. convince editors to make changes to existing page or make new one..what are your thoughts on that.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 09:03, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, we should definitely make a page on his literary contribution. It is not easy to convince the other editors. This will take some time. We will have to come up with several references which refute their claims step by step and logically. We will also have to convince them about the uselessness and exaggerations in the old sources. I have marked out certain statements from some books which I have with me. I am currently working on refencences proving the false nature of the Bakhars. In summary - We will have to convince them about the false nature of the old references and strong validity of the new references. If this happens properly then we will be able to make those appropriate changes in the article. I have also contacted a user named HistoryProtect, I have read all the discussions on the talk page of Sambhaji, and in 2018, he was the only one who tried to convince the greatness of Sambhaji to editors in a proper way. But he has not replied to my message. I have invited him to join us in our effort.
Charvak157 (talk) 19:33, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
That's great....so what exact topics we should be trying to get references for.. because almost nearly entire life of King is mispresented..... what points, Life events we must focus.. ..i guess sabhasad (to some extent) and chitnisi bakhar.. have been source of wrong information.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 19:52, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
You are right, 1) Sabhasad Bakhar 2) Chitnis Bakhar 3) Shivdigvijaya have been considered to be the most important Bakhars. Reputed older historians such as Sarkar, Sardesai, Grant Duff etc. have written Sambhaji's history by using the first two bakhars as major sources. I have read somee outrageously unrealistic parts of Sabhasad Bakhar related to Sambhaji.
I am mentioning some points which we should focus on. I have divided them into two 1) To remove false
allegations against Sambhaji
A) Finding out and highlighting the discrepancies, illogical claims in the older sources. B) Highlighting proper sources depicting his true good character. C) Meeting with Shivaji at Panhala, which proves that Sambhaji was not confined by Shivaji. In fact he was in-charge of the Panhala Subha. D) His ascension to the throne, and the fact that he had spared and restored old positions of the conspirators. E) To prove, He did not execute the ministers because of Kavi Kalash's advice, he killed them because they were traitors. He did not kill Soyarabai. In fact she commited suicide.
2) To add his achievements which have never been mentioned in those older sources. Which have been discovered only after the work of Bendre and Gokhle. A) Sambhaji's early campaigns and battles before 1674. B) Foreign accounts of the very young Sambhaji. C) His administration and work at Shringarpur 1676-78. D) His literary contributions. E) His battles from 1674-80. F) His brilliant military victories such as
Burhanpur (1681),
Janjira campaign which was almost successful,
battle against Hasan Ali Khan,
Battles and victorious campaign against Chikkadevaraya (1682),
Highly successful Goa campaign (1683),
his victories against the 1lakh strong Mughal forces of Shah Alam and Azam Shah in 1684-85. His help to Bijapur and Golconda against Aurangzeb. His attack on Bharuch (1687) Victory against the Shirkes(1688)
3) Sambhaji's adminstrative reforms and achievements (Such as his planned action against severe drought.)
4) His social reforms ( Giving Yesubai the seal and rights equal to his own, Re-conversion of Harsul's Kulkarni etc.)
5) His naval achievements and more
Almost None of his great achievements have been written about in the older sources. We will try to get sources and highlight all of these properly.
Charvak157 (talk) 05:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok..now I got the idea....about panhala meeting...of king shivaji and Sambhaji has been mentioned in sabhasad bakhar itself...and also there is a letter written by shivaji to vyankyoji bhosale his brother on Sambhaji return to panhala.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:07, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Chiitnis bakhar mentions that Sambhaji return to Raigad from panhala and then cruelly killed the ministers and killed is own stepmother which is proved wrong by v s Bendre.. because soyrabai was present for nearly 1 and half year after death of Shivaji.Anupuran also States that Sambhaji Maharaj comforted, consoled his mothers and about how ministers were kept under surveillance which was not troublesome surveillance also in one of theEnglish records (22 July 1680) there is mention of how Sambhaji treated his young brother i quote from there "his younger brother used with all kindness and continues as yet so to do "
So basically the punishment which were given in 1681 for treason, overthrowing king was mentioned in bakhar and in 1680.. creating cruel image of king and this cruel image is reflected..when We read English historian , Indian historian.. before new researches.. were done..well i will try to gather more information on this...to make this argument more strong.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, please try to gather as much sources as you can get. It will definitely make our argument more stronger, valid and difficult to ignore. Charvak157 (talk) 07:48, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
And one more question we should ask Wikipedia editor is that they have used the word "unrepentant" Sambhaji was put under surveillance at panhala by Father do they have any proof other than other historian writing that he was unrepentant.. and if they have they should present it... because Sambhaji was not brought forcefully or arrested From Diller khan's camp to bri to Swarajya.He returned by himself because seige of fort of Swarajya which he didn't approved of .and didn't like it happened. So if he was "unrepentant" why at first place he came back to Swaraj...? Why he didn't stay with Diller Khan..well .do editors have any backing for that.. because We have sources to counter that "unrepentant" thing..and with link to that point we can prove surveillance point wrong to...what is your thoughts on this question.... Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:22, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak157 what is the matter with Wikipedia i read about please put authentic source and neutrality ? Is there any problem? Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:40, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
What exactly is the issue with "attack on burhanpur" section Ziesteno2 (talk) 17:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
The Wikipedia policy does not consider novels as an authentic source for writing history. According to them only S.A.Bahekars work on Sacking of Burhanpur is a valid refencence. They have removed my citations of Sambhaji and Chhava, and Khara Sambhaji by Namdevrao Jadhav. He has not deleted anything from my article but he has removed my reference citations and marked my article as having multiple issues. That's it.
You can read my reply to Bonadea on my talk page as well as the talk page of Sacking of Burhanpur. It will give you a better idea. If you have some other sources then improve the article by adding them. Thanks
Charvak157 (talk) 18:26, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Wait, give some time to check whether I can find some proper source about the 'unrepentant'. If you have some source about unrepentant thing right now then please tell me. We will present it properly. Charvak157 (talk) 18:28, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Okay at charvak actually am currently working on house arrest section...and detection...do you have any reference to add to this topic ..i will read talk page... thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Great to hear, please keep on doing your good work. I am also checking through my sources. I will tell you, if I find any such source. Charvak157 (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
They want scholarly work right and if we present it and it's not in English then will they accept it? Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:35, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Because there are ascholarly work which have mentioned how bakhars are wrong about Sambhaji Maharaj .. Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
If you want I can give name of some sources now.. with Page no...to put forward an argument...and those are by historians who has done extensive research... Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, absolutely there are Marathi sources which prove the faulty nature of Bakhars, I don't know whether they will accept it or not. But it is our duty to try our best. You please present your sources with a proper but short argument. Because, Bonadea told me today that they don't read long arguments. We have to present it in short, crisp manner. You can see it on the discussion about neutrality. All we have in our hands is to try our best, that is what greats like Sambhaji and Shivaji did in their times. All the best. Charvak157 (talk) 18:48, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes please, give me the sources you have. With page no.s and details. We will discuss and put forth a proper argument. Charvak157 (talk) 18:51, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
1. Ok i will put it will require some time (few minutes) ..we will discuss it..and then you can put forward as material to consider.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:55, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
About bakhars first
1.Sadhan chikitsa (V.S. Bendre)
This book PROVIDES THE TOOLS FOR CONDUCTING RESEARCH IN THE FIELD OF MARATHA history this book has in detailed analysed every type of historical source(Persian, Portuguese, Mughal, Maratha etc) which can be use to study Maratha history in this book on Pg 201- it is clearly Stated that bakhars has done a lot of scams in Sambhaji's character. The text was written leaving the facts and actual scenarios. The main reason for this was that after Shivaji Rajaram got the kingdom have and did not mentioned anything about Sambhaji's reign hence they have made very wrong assumptions about Sambhaji by giving very perverse details".
2 Dr Kamal Gokhale (shivputra Sambhaji ) page 495- writes about "sabhasad bakhar did not mentioned Sambhaji's reign from 1680-1689 . sabhasad bakhar has mentioned some astrology on sambhaji as "Sambhaji will not be capable, will get addicted to sensual pleasures,will not be able to protect kingdom, he will kill ministers for no reason" etc..which is proved to be wrong after studying Sambhaji's period's letters, documents etc
Page 495 about chitnis bakhar was referred by grant duff. This bakhar have written with prejudice ,anger because of one of the great great grandfather of chitnis was punished by Sambhaji for treason.this bakhar mentions all wrong, exaggerated , perverse details about Sambhaji all these details mentioned in this Bakhar has been proved wrong with actual historical document by historian Kamal Gokhale in her book which was originally her PhD thesis on Sambhaji in English
3 .Dr jaysingh Pawar-"chatrapati Sambhaji ek chikitsa" -this Book is critical analysis of sources of historical works of historians and other sources including bakharin this book
Pg no 16- 17 mention details from sabhasad Bakhar and from page 19-20 analyizes all claims made by bakhar and proves them wrong
Page 20-26 mentions contents of chitnis Bakhar and has analyzes them from Page 26-29 proves them inaccurate.
If this historical work is considered it becames clear that accounts on Sambhaji's life on Wikipedia has been reflecting the information provided in bakhars which are inaccurate,biased many works of historians on sambhaji reflects information from bakhars as well so please consider this argument to make changes.. more proves will be provided if necessary on particular incident which has not been mentioned correctly .in the article Thank you Ziesteno2 (talk) 20:23, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Please read it carefully and share your thoughts on it before making any arguments.. waiting for reply thank you Ziesteno2 (talk) 20:25, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
It is not in good format but has information.....i don't have Idea of how to keep it short because if references are to be mentioned then.. has to be in some detail but still if you can shorten this information.. by including important points you can do it.. thanks
Ziesteno2 (talk) 20:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
These are great refencences, thank you so much. I will have a proper look at them. I will also try to cite some of my sources to complement those of yours. So it will improve our point. Thanks. Charvak157 (talk) 10:34, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes..at charvak.. Thanks
Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:33, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak under death section the reason of converting to Islam about "Dharamveer" title is not accurate this is not accepted by dr jaysingh Pawar( he has reason for that because source is chitnis Bakhar and moreover no contemporary source give that information. ) even Dr Kamal Gokhale didn't mention this reason. is there any other source which proves this because contemporary resources have different and in detail explanation of why death was given. Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
charvak need your thoughts on above topic.. it's important.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 17:07, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Friend, I have not read Jaysingrao Pawar's book yet. So I am not aware of his point of view about the death of Sambhaji. Can you please explain it in more detail? Charvak157 (talk) 17:27, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes yes friend you are right. I got it, the claim in the statement that Sambhaji would have accepted Islam only if Aurangzeb gave him his daughter is completely false. But currently I don't have any references to refute the point. Charvak157 (talk) 17:31, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok friend.but such claim have been refuted.. though.but you should check by yourself..from sources when available Thank you Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:33, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah sure. I will definitely check them. Charvak157 (talk) 04:43, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello charvak i presented some point from new sources but they were rejected..on basis of not from well sourced information. Ziesteno2 (talk) 22:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Please tell me,Where did you submit it? In which article and under which discussion you submitted them? I will read them and revert back to you. Charvak157 (talk) 04:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak check "annaji datto sachiv" talk page in that section "June 2020" also posted it on johnathansammy (Wikipedia editor)talk page in section "ongoing sambhaji battle" please read and reply on your talk page thank you for your efforts Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I tried to make changes.in "conflict with sambhaji" section under that "sambhaji was unrepentant and hence put under surveillance that piece of information""... Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Annaji datto sachiv page. Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I think the sources won't be accepted there is no use of putting it in article.. until other big editors don't consider our arguments , sources we present.. things will keep reverting back and forth... Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:32, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes you are right, that's why we should try only with a sufficient backing of sources. I had also tried to do the same but the senior editors kept them reverting. Hence, your judgement is right. If we want our edits to survive for a long time, then they should be convinced to everyone and backed with the refencences considered to be scholarly by Wikipedia Charvak157 (talk) 10:08, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
You can also use Google scholar, because most of the senior editors use it to check the validity of the refencences. Charvak157 (talk) 10:09, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes...the question is how to convince them vs Bendre, Kamal , Gokhale , j Pawar have scholarly..work.. most of the material is available in Marathi..and debate of bakhar , other sources which have been discussed by them... how to convince them... those are right....do they accept if names or works are present on Google scholar ? Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
And one more question have you cited any .. source from Google scholar and presented it before senior editors..? Because i have found two .. Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:49, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Ziesteno2: Google Scholar is not a source, it is simply a data base which lists academic sources where some are acceptable and others are not. It is a good place to search for potential sources (as long as we do not look for specific sources in order to prove a particular point of view) but being listed there is not an automatic stamp of approval. If you identify sources in Google Scholar, post the bibliographic information from the listing to the talk page of the article in question, to help other editors understand what the source is. Thanks, --bonadea contributions talk 13:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Okay thanks..bonadea. for guidance. so basically a reference from Google scholar is useful for editors to verify or know the source they are not known to Ziesteno2 (talk) 15:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello Zeisteno2, I have not yet cited any source which is there on Gschlolar in the talk page. I will present some sources in the article on Sambhaji shortly. Charvak157 (talk) 04:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok charvak157..notify when you will cite thank you.
Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I have cited my sources, and I have proposed the creation of a new section named religious policy of Sambhaji. I have created a new discussion named Religious policy of Sambhaji on the talk page Please have a look at the new talk page. If you have any additional reliable sources then please cite them. Charvak157 (talk) 08:12, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I have also asked senior editors to have a look at the sources Charvak157 (talk) 08:12, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak checked page..i have 2 more sources of v s Bendre Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Then please add them in the said talk page. Charvak157 (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak I think i lost references for that topic..will cite it when i will find.. sorry.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 10:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok, no worries friend Charvak157 (talk) 11:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey charvak did you get any reference.or source to correct information.. present in article... especially.. "confinement or house arrest section." Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I have argued ..that shivaji met sambhaji on panhala...and Source is shivaji's letter to his stepbrother vykyonji bhosale ..on describing meet.. with sambhaji.(letter is given in Kamal Gokhale's book and jaysingh Pawar's Book as well), even in setu pagdi's book shivaji he has also mentioned shivaji meet sambhaji on panhala.pagdi wrote that he (sambhaji)was repentant, in Kamal Gokhale's book she has Stated that panhala province responsibility was given to sambhaji and she has mentioned that even he was given authority to deal with French ( source given by her was contemporary French account), even sabhasad bakhar has described this meet , jaysingh Pawar has also stated that .. shivaji met sambhaji and responsibility was given... please if possible try to gather more Sources on this part as well... Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:40, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok I will try to get more sources on this part as well Charvak157 (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok.. thanks.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:13, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Charvak from where did you get access to online english material of Kamal Gokhale.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:32, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
And do you have any idea about how..to make foreign language material reach to senior english speaking editors because most of the english material...are based on old.ref.and new ref are in marathi.. though some are in English..but don't know about their availablity on net...
Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Because the thing is if any such source is mentioned editors must be thinking that it's unreliable or not well sourced.. they seem to be un -known about source..so they don't accept them....so .do you have any idea.about to make source known..and also long messages are not read by them because one editor mentioned that.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
So cannot explain about source in long and detailed form Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:44, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend 1) I found it when I was searching on the net for the different areas of Sambhaji's life in various pdf's and cited articles.
2) Frankly speaking even I am myself trying to figure out how to make foreign language reliable material known to editors. At this moment, I don't know how to do it.
3) My messages were very long. It's not like that you can't post long messages. You can post long messages which are not excessively long. But they must be presented in a well spaced and organized manmer. Charvak157 (talk) 04:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
friend.. well I have asked.editors.about.presenting foreign language sources,other historian sources but didn't not receive any answer yet... Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:13, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Also..i read your suggestion on talk page.. where you gave Kamal Gokhale and S A bahekar reference..but editors have not replied yet whether sources are acceptable or not so it becames difficult to understand..that what are reliable,correct sources..and also reason are unknown of why.. other sources mentioned are not accepted..
Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey charvak.since you are not able to get Hard copy of book's.i found few page's from jaysingh Pawar's book on internet.though it is not complete book but..if you want you can read them on internet... Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Here is the url for Pawar's book
- https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ENNNDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT114&dq=Chatrapati+Sambhaji+jaysingh+Pawar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-vMiZg5XqAhXIX30KHRsOBmsQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=Chatrapati%20Sambhaji%20jaysingh%20Pawar&f=false Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:43, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much friend. Even I am myself puzzled as to why any of the senior editors have not replied to my discussion on Sambhaji's religious policy. Thanks Charvak157 (talk) 14:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
No worries friend well let's wait for reply till then we should gather sources and keep posting, discussing them .About the book there around 20-25 pages in above url from Book..but you will get some idea.after reading ..few available page's.. thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, you are right friend. Charvak157 (talk) 18:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Friend if I May ask what are your current sources you found and sources you are finding Thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
And also I want to ask you that if we open page "addressing senior editors" on your talk page will it be fine ? as i think we can post our points,sources asking editors to consider and both of us can read them including editors.though it is Just a thought.what do you think? Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend, I am currently busy in my college academic work. I will revert back to you after few days once I have some more time. Till then, I will try to gather maximum sources about the topic. Cheers, thanks. Charvak157 (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Okay friend.do revert back after you get free thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello charvak hope you are doing well did you get the new sources ? Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:41, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Sorry you are busy but still texted because wanted to know any new , different sources ... Ziesteno2 (talk) 13:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
No not yet. I am trying to find even more references. Charvak157 (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay charvak.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Charvak read your edits for agricultural policies. Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
And religious policy section...added in article... Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Good points..... Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:42, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Also charvak it will be really helpful if we decide any topic together or you can mention the topic that is to be presented so ...we will be able to present, find more detailed information..more resources will be known and it will be helpful to know exactly what we are working on.... as i was waiting for you to revert back. Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
I am extremely sorry my friend, In these days, I was so engrossed with busy schedule hence I was not able to revert back. I request you if you can add more refencences or any more sources in the article. I have cited four authors in the governance section. References from authors Kamal Gokhale, Pandit Shankar(P.S.) Joshi, and Ananta Ramchandra(A.R.) Kulkarni were already used in the article. Plus they also have Google Scholar cites. Shankar Narayan (S.N.) Joshi's Sambhaji patrasaarsangraha was not used before in the article. But he is clearly a scholar as he was an important figure in 'Bharat Itihasa Sanshodhak Mandal' plus he also has Google scholar cites. Till now, I have only cited people who can safely be considered as scholars by the senior editors. I also have many other references from authors such as T.K.Birajdar, Rajaram Sonawane, Jaysingrao Pawar, Sadashiv Shivde, B.S.Sawant all these are scholarly authors and not novelists. But they don't have any Google scholar citations. And without GScholar cites or references it is difficult to prove their scholarly nature to other senior editors. Hence, till now I have not cited them in the article. I am currently trying to gather information to prove the scholarly nature of these authors. If we manage to prove their scholarly nature to other editors, then we can cite them in the article. Please if you get any information which can prove the scholarly nature of these authors then please do share. I will post and discuss my new planned edits with you shortly. Here I am sharing a list of authors who have written about Sambhaji and have GScholar entries and cites which will prove their scholarly nature to senior editors. This will help you to gather your references
1) Vasudev Sitaram (V.S.) Bendrey 2) Kamal Gokhale 3) Ananta Ramchandra (A.R.) Kulkarni 4) Ganesh Hari (G.H.) Khare 5) Pandit Shankar (P.S.) Joshi 6) Shankar Narayan (S.N.) Joshi 7) VG Khobrekar 8) AD Pisurlekar
Thanks and cheers. Charvak157 (talk) 15:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks friend..if i have anything I will definitely share with you thanks and cheers Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:37, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
I have detailed Material from works of vs Bendre and kamal Gokhale but AR kulkarni, G H khare, Sn Joshi etc i was searching didn't get anything much.. finding books written by them.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:40, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Yup, please try to gather more info. And you can look for another author PS Pisurlekar. Charvak157 (talk) 14:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Charvak as you mentioned before vs Bendre and Kamal Gokhale are accepted by senior editor then why they are not accepting the panhala incident ..of shivaji and sambhaji meeting because both scholars have mentioned that sambhaji was not detained at panchala ...there is one more scholar supporting the same view..i.need your opinion Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:38, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Setu.M.Pagdi have also described this panhala meeting am pagdi as been cited too Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:41, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
There is Wikipedia page on setu pagdi as well.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:44, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
I have not made or tried any edits..but just wanted to know..why this authors are not accepted..when this particular historical incidents is mentioned.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 07:58, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Even though Bendrey and Gokhle are considered as scholars, I guess no one before us has presented a specific argument by citing Bendrey and Gokhle in relavance to the Panhala meeting. If you can do so, then please choose the proper citations and put our point on the talk page. We know that the Panhala meeting was a great successful dialogue between a father and his son. Please put forth your cites. I will also back it. Charvak157 (talk) 08:10, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
But, as you can see MatthewVanitas has provided references in the discussion about Sambhaji's confinement at Panhala. Which refer to alleged misbehavior of Sambhaji. Apparently all these are based on writings of Bakhars, and Bakhar cites heavy old Historians such as Sarkar, Kincaid, Duff etc. We know that these allegations about Maharaj are wrong. But we will have to put a strong and multiply cited argument to prove the allegations as false and to replace it with the correct information. Charvak157 (talk) 08:23, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Even J Sarkar has changed, edited his Book or added new information..one of the example is pisurlekar provided new information regarding Portuguese struggle with maratha .. Sarkar updated.. Book even in his book later j Sarkar himself said that sambhaji though not under surveillance his moment was observed closely.(this is how new information changed and gave New realisation) in one of the introduction of j Sarkar's book he himself wrote New information has been obtained and will be added in next book...and about alleged misbehaviour.. sambhaji never went to panhala he was sent to shringarpur from there sajjangad and then .. Diller Khan(many historians missed this sequence and there is no clear explanation why sambhaji was sent to shrigarpur with wife for that Marathi literature will have to be referred..and jaysingh pawar has analysed the alleged allegation of misbehavior.but they don't consider Pawar as scholar). situation.. even Gokhale says it is hard to tell about misbehavior... Also i have argued by giving 2 original sources as well shivaji's later to vykyonji describing his meet with sambhaji.. Sanskrit danpatra of sambhaji ..i didn't receive any response.but how to put this.friend if i put here on your Page will you put forward argument .. because i think that governance and other information are much easy to get we can do that.. without any problem..but the alleged wrong information..we should try to collect information on that..need your views..do you have any way to do this... right way.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 10:01, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
If you get any such information (along with your own research).. me posted.. will be helpful thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 10:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes, we should try to gather maximum information about the allegations on his character. Plus please put forward whatever info you have gathered about Sambhaji Maharaj's Panhala incident. Like the change in Sarkar's book etc. I will have a look and then we may be able to put forward our point. Charvak157 (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay friend I will do that I will compile it and put it here thank you so much
Ziesteno2 (talk) 15:12, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello charvak i found Few page's from Kamal Gokhale's book shivaputra sambhaji .there are in total 37 pages..and are conclusionary remarks at end of the book " "shianvalokan" if you want you can read those pages..url is given below Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:42, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
https://fliphtml5.com/wviin/elow/basic Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
https://fliphtml5.com/wviin/elow/basic Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:45, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Just flip the pages you will go to next page thank you Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:46, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
And not able to post information on panhala incident because am still getting information..will put soon Ziesteno2 (talk) 09:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend, this is a great source. It contains several references about Sambhaji's governance. I will add them appropriately in the new section created by me about his governanace Charvak157 (talk) 11:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes right friend..these 37 pages are sort of summary of Sambhaji Maharaj life .. including governance, allegations, becoming a king, fight, struggle etc.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 11:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend have you exposed to any more new sources..if you have please share link.read your new updates too Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:14, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to update you about panhala incident as well i have able to gathered New references from 3 authors (Bendre, Gokhale ,pagdi)as of now actually it's four but barring j pawar..if you come across any such piece of information please do share..thank you Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Yup, sure Charvak157 (talk) 16:26, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend..any new update or source found ? Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:10, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Yup I have some, but I am very busy currently. I will post them as soon as I become free. Thanks, cheers Charvak157 (talk) 04:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay Cheers Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:21, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend i want to ask do you have hard copy of vs Bendre 's biography onsambhaji and Kamal Gokhale 's biography onsambhaji as well Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
No, I don't have the hardcopies of these two books Charvak157 (talk) 02:07, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Hey friend, I just saw a new section called innovations in the article on Sambhaji Maharaj. Have you created that section or someone else has created? Charvak157 (talk) 02:21, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
No friend i didn't create innovation page someone else might have created it Ziesteno2 (talk) 06:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend you removed information added by you under religious policy any problem Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
And also who wrote the introduction in military expedition .. "pragmatic and brutal" Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I have removed the information because someone had marked it as a unverifiable citation, I will check whether the citation is really unverifiable or is it because he doesn't know about it? Charvak157 (talk) 14:15, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes..do you need any help for verification of source.. do tell me Ziesteno2 (talk) 14:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Can you find the reference details from Gokhale's book for the para which I have removed due to unverifiable content template. You have mention exact page no., Publisher name, Publishing year, edition of the book,. Location of Publication etc. If you find these statements in Gokhale's hardcopy, tell me those details and I will add them again accordingly. Charvak157 (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Shivputra sambhaji Page 434-436 mentions about various grants, , land ,money given by sambhaji 2) Sambhaji personally strictly used to check that whether grants, donations were given properly and were used for right cause or not(page 436) 3) conversion of Gangadhar Rangnath kulkarni of Harsul who was forcefully converted by Aurangzeb was re converted (page 446-447)
Publisher name - continental publication Location-pune Edition- 6th Publishing year - 2019
Ziesteno2 (talk) 23:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much my friend, I will add this comtent Charvak157 (talk) 04:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Anytime friend Ziesteno2 (talk) 08:12, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
I am currently working on gathering more refencences for Sambhaji Maharaj's great victory against the Konkan invasions by 1,00,000 strong force of Muazzam in 1684, and against 1,00,000 force of Azam in 1685. You have the hardcopies of Bendre and Gokhale please give me as much as references from both these books about these victories of Maharaj. Again please give the references with all the details as you had given me for the religious practices point. Thanks Charvak157 (talk) 06:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay I will gather information regarding the Konkan invasion. Ziesteno2 (talk) 10:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend i will post information in two -three days. Ziesteno2 (talk) 17:56, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Sure Charvak157 (talk) 12:11, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
1) Aurangzeb to destroy kingdom of sambhaji Maharaj started multiple expeditions, attacks at different places of Maratha kingdom,but was not able to win or had any success against Sambhaji for straight 2-3 years then Mughal emperor decided to undertake expedition of konkan in 1683 and appointed his son shahzada mauzzham (shah alam) to win konkan ,ramdara and other territory of maratha's 2) Mauzhaam was provided with huge army , Brave and famous sardars like atishkhan (artillery inspector), latifshah, sarfarzkhan, iklaskhan , nagoji(he knew the territory very well) 3) At the start mauazzham had 45000 force at his command.Hasan ali Khan who was at bank of river Bhima was ordered to join forces with mauzzham ,there were battle between maratha forces and leading force's of Mughal . Mughal lost and ran away.then Mughal force attacked sampgad ( fort of sampgaon) and they won and siezed the fort ,two-three famous sardars were injured 4) Then mauzham started started to cross ramghat at that time sambhaji was fighting against Portuguese in Goa . Sambhaji didn't want to get trapped between Portuguese and Mughals so sambhaji decided to adapt defensive strategy of retreating Orleans said that "Sambhaji didn't consider himself strong enough to resist such huge number and thought of securing safety by a masterly retreat which he affected so cleverly that he retired to his fastness before mogul could engage him". sambhaji very quickly and cleverly retreated home before Mughals could attack him 5) on returning Home sambhaji had an idea of huge force of shah alam,so to face alam's army sambhaji started to increase strength of his army 5) 28 -12-1683 shah alam burned down Kudal and bande after that, 15-01-1684 he burned down Dicholi, forces of shah alam destroyed temples ,looted vengurla 7) shah alam's forces faced severe food shortage, soldiers were starving, so Alam ordered khairatkhan and yakrutkhan of Surat to send food supplies . Shah Alam asked for permission to pass ships carrying food which was granted by portuguese.portuguese sent lawyer to shah Alam requesting alam not to retreat from Konkan and keep fighting against sambhaji, Portuguese who lost more than 20 lac rupees due to war with Maratha and was demanding this same amount and 600 horses and also demanded the Konkan territory from banda to Mirjan No such deal took place in reality because the ship carrying food supplies sent to shah alam didn't reach because of different maratha forts at sea ,ships were attacked by marathas after they got the information, Few ships escaped buy they didn't carry enough food supplies so shah alam was ordered to return back by Aurangzeb. 8)mauazzham decided to leave konkan before rainy season on way back Mughal army suffered a lot (while going through Ramghat) due to scarcity of food , constant attacks of Marathas, diseases. 9) when shah alam crossed ramghat he was left with little cavalry, Marathas were constantly attacking on Mughals Bahadur Khan met Alam and provided him with all equipments, force 10) in may-april of 1684 shah alam stayed at shakes /sheks village near vijapur ,in month of June he reached at Bank of river bhima where he had battle with 5000 Maratha forces and he was injured in that battle. 11) the expedition of konkan by shah alam was big failure Mughals lost manpower, moneypower
Shivputra sambhaji(kamal Gokhale) Publisher name - continental publication Location-pune Edition- 6th Publishing year - 2019
Friend i have shortlisted some points Writer have given more detailed information I have not included the description (ie. Exact quotation of incidents given by English people or mannuci or contemporary historians.if there is any shortcoming or confusing part please let me know will share more details. Ziesteno2 (talk) 22:51, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
This is from VS bendre's Book am posting only conclusion part given by Writer there are many details. 1) Aurangzeb had sent his son and other great nobles on this invasion. The politics of this invasion lasted from 20th August 1683 to 24th May 1684. There were not many incidents of actual fighting. At the end of the battle, the situation remained the same. Only the main road between Nizampur and Ramghat to Vengurla was destroyed. By this time the crops had been removed. There was no question of looting as there was no other place in Pethe except Sampagava. The dew did not cause much damage to the village even before the invasion. On the contrary, the effects of this invasion on politics were:
1. The Portuguese who were inclined towards the Mughals by Sambhaji Raja's invasion were annoyed by the plunder of Bardesh by the people of Shah Alam and the destruction of the Mughal Armory caravan and the looting . He insisted on concluding a pact with Sambhaji. The Mughals lost a friend as it was their interest to depend on Sambhaji.
2. Seeing the misery of the Portuguese and considering the struggle of the Mughal emperors, it was in their interest to hold on to Sambhaji. Also, the arson and looting of Sambhaji Raja in the region near Mumbai was stopped.
3. Taking advantage of the animosity between the Portuguese and the Arabs, Sambhaji Raja befriended the Arabs, and with the support of arabs Sambhaji Raja's a Armor became stronger. 4. As the Adilshahi chiefs were persuaded to side Sambhaji Raja was able to make a pact with them. Therefore, Adilshahi, Qutbshahi and Hindavi Swarajya became a group of three and was ready to fight against Aurangzeb. This organization became very important. 5. Shah Alam's army was so badly damaged that he came to Shakes Village with his nobles at the end of April and waited for the arrival of elephants and horses from his father for the journey. When the mule was sent, on May 24, 1684, Shah Alam was able to travel to Ahmednagar and meet the emperor. More than half a million Mughal troops and countless horses, elephants, camels, etc. were damaged. 7. The moghul ships suffered heavy losses only for the transportation of grain. Much of the grain supply fell into the hands of Sambhaji Raja and some sank in the sea. So Shah Alam had to return and there was a famine in Surat.
In summary, the Mughals were defeated even though they marched with a force of one and a half lakh and ran hundreds of miles without encountering a real enemy. Apart from the credit for the arson, looting whole expedition was frustrating. Food supplies for Mughal armies were looted by enemy starving soldiers to death . the heroic soldiers, cavalry fell ill.
Shri Chatrapati sambhaji Maharaj (V.S.bendre) Publication- parshwa publication Edition-4th Year - 2013 Ziesteno2 (talk) 23:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend in short this whole Konkan invasion was failure 1) apart from burning and destroying few towns which they were not able to control, didn't win any fort Mughals lost lots of manpower, money, animals due to illness, droughts, constant attacks and looting by Marathas, food shortage,(food supplies were looted by enemy) etc.. Ziesteno2 (talk) 00:04, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend if more details are required do tell..or any corrections.thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 09:47, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend, this is really a great refencence, thank you so much providing them and doing the hardwork. I request you to please mention the appropriate page no.s for these, so that I will be able to cite them accurately. I am also working on a few more refencences, friend I request that you also try to find other more sources about Konkan invasions. Charvak157 (talk) 10:30, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Kamal Gokhale book page no 288-296 VS Bendre book page no 384,385,399,400
Friend will try to mention points from above sources and New sources as well Ziesteno2 (talk) 12:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes please do it friend. Thanks Charvak157 (talk) 04:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend from how many authors you got information about Konkan invasion Ziesteno2 (talk) 17:19, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend how much information you have gathered till now thanks Ziesteno2 (talk) 16:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Friend I am slightly busy, in my work, I will revert back to you once I get time Charvak157 (talk) 12:19, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay friend. Ziesteno2 (talk) 17:12, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend this is my new Wikipedia account with New username thought of letting you know..old" ziesteno2 "account will be closed.. thank you Ziesteno1 (talk) 17:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, sure friend, noted Charvak157 (talk) 05:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend, you were collecting data on konkan invasion. did you leave editing? since you are inactive from long period of time Regards Ziesteno (talk) 18:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello friend when you get back please revert back need your help , suggestions thanks Ziesteno (talk) 15:17, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes sure buddy, I am very busy in my work. I will be back perhaps in my diwali vacations. Charvak157 (talk) 10:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Okay friend... Ziesteno (talk) 11:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Friend I read your recent edits ..I have a doubt did you summarise the information after referring to source ? Ziesteno (talk) 16:25, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
I didn't get you, can you please elaborate your point? Charvak157 (talk) 17:45, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
About the Information of war strategy..did you pick that from a book(the wordings)or you read the mentioned source and summarized the information in short Ziesteno (talk) 04:49, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Sources, canvassing, and a neutral point of view edit
Charvak157, please take a moment to refresh your knowledge of Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sources. You have created a few articles that are partly or almost entirely based on fictionalised accounts of history, including Namdevrao Jadhav's Khara Sambhaji, Vishwas Patil's Sambhaji, and Shivaji Sawant's Chhava. These are novels, and as such are not acceptable sources for factual claims about historical events. It is always possible that a novel actually builds on real sources, and that an author of fiction is also a scholar, but I have spent some time looking into these three works and cannot find that either of those factors exist here. I am about to post a more detailed discussion of this at Talk:Sacking of Burhanpur (1681).
If you wish to consult other editors about the reliability of sources, the Reliable Sources noticeboard is the best place. Please remember to be brief and succinct (anything that resembles the long posts at Talk:Sambhaji will almost certainly not be read) – post something on the lines of "Can [this source] be used to support [this information] on [this page]? The source's author is [description] and the reason I think it is a reliable source is [this]", or if you want a more general evaluation, "Can [this source] be used to support descriptions of historical events in Wikipedia articles?" – and please do not forget to provide a link to previous discussions.
Also please read WP:CANVASS. You recently contacted an editor who was active for about two weeks two years ago, and who made one single edit to the encyclopedia – an edit that was blatantly against policy, in that it removed well-sourced and neutrally written content. S/he also made a number of talk page posts about "removing objectionable content", including mentions of legal action (which could probably have got her or him blocked, but s/he stopped editing after that). S/he was not around for long enough to learn how Wikipedia works, and so the failure to understand that a neutral point of view involves a bias in favour of mainstream reliable academic sources can be forgiven. But instead of asking inactive editors who edit from a strong and declared point of view, it would be more constructive for you to take the advice you have been given by experienced editors, for instance when it comes to not using sources that are not appropriate for Wikipedia. It is also highly concerning that you say things like "we can definitely force a change in the article" – hopefully this is simply a language issue and you have no intention of "forcing" anything.
I hope you will take these comments to heart. It is important that Wikipedia gets good coverage of topic areas that are less well-known to English speaking Westerners. But it is even more important that all content is neutral (that is, relying entirely on mainstream sources) and that no editor tries to use the encyclopedia to promote her or his point of view. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 11:35, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Bonadea I will definitely adhere to Wikipedia's guidelines. Don't worry about that. I posted long messages because I was not aware of the methods used by senior editors to put their arguments on the talk page. I have understood your point. I will not post long messages on the talk page and I will post my arguments in the manner you have told me to do.
I did not intend to use the word 'force' literally. I am committed to make my point through constructive argument and I am not at all going to force those changes in the article. I am well aware of the fact that, it is highly unethical and wrong to force anything on Wikipedia. I can assure you one thing that, Irrespective of however much I disagree to the refencences current article on Sambhaji, I will try to do the changes only through constructive argument. I will read WP:CANVASS, and I won't repeat my mistake.
Please guide me on the following lines
I have understood how to present my new sources to other editors.
But I have not understood how can I challenge the reliability of older sources on Wikipedia? Charvak157 (talk) 12:57, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Well, there must be some specific reason why you do not believe that a specific source is reliable; for instance, if an author is not actually qualified as a mainstream academic. It depends on the topic area, to some extent, but for a historical topic the only really constructive challenge of an existing source (that has been shown to be reliable in the past) would be if other mainstream academic sources have overwhelmingly contradicted it. What would not work would be if an editor, hypothetically, wanted to remove some particular sourced information from an article, and so went looking for ways to challenge the source in order to change the text in the article. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 13:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- Could you make sure to take out all the sources that you now know are not reliable, such as novels, and books from the 1920s (or earlier!) from the articles you have created or where you have previously added such sources? Thanks! --bonadea contributions talk 14:01, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok, I will do it. Thanks for the information Charvak157 (talk) 14:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
I have removed the sources as per your guidance, Thanks. Charvak157 (talk) 14:37, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Please tell me one more thing
How to cite sources and references on the talk page? Charvak157 (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Battle of Vikramgad moved to draftspace edit
An article you recently created, Battle of Vikramgad, does not have any sources and citations. It needs citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. bonadea contributions talk 12:49, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok, noted Charvak157 (talk) 14:27, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
How to cite sources and references on the talk page of an article? edit
Hello everybody, How to cite sources and references on the talk page? Please tell me Charvak157 (talk) 12:55, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Charvak157, do you mean when you list sources on a talk page, to see if they can be used in an article? Different people will do that in different ways, but one clear and helpful way would be to put each source on a new line with a * in front of it (to create a bullet point) and then give the following information, for instance in this order: Author, Title, Type of publication (book, journal article, etc), Title of journal (if the source is an article), Pages, Year of publication, Original title (if you have translated it). It doesn't have to be formatted like a reference in an article, but it needs to include enough information for other editors (from other parts of the world) to understand what it is and track it down, for instance in bibliographic databases. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 13:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Bonadea, that's exactly what my question was. Thanks for your reply. Charvak157 (talk) 04:47, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Battle page. edit
Charvak i think we should make a nice" introductory section" or new Page in your battle page summarising sambhaji 's 9 years resistance to Mughal and others.. what do you think... Ziesteno2 (talk) 09:32, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes sure, we will do it Charvak157 (talk) 10:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Fulaji Prabhu Deshpande edit
Hello, Charvak157. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Fulaji Prabhu Deshpande".
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Celestina007 (talk) 16:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi friend, I am currently not working on it. You can delete the draft of Fulajiprabhu Deshpande. I will work on this article later, thank you. Charvak157 (talk) 16:34, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
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Your draft article, Draft:Siddi Jauhar edit
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Battle of Vikramgad edit
Hello, Charvak157. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Battle of Vikramgad".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Controversial topic area alert edit
Alert was not substituted as required. Reissued below. — Newslinger talk 23:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
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 This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date. You have shown interest in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic. For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. |
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. — Newslinger talk 23:20, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
- Note - I'm leaving this alert on multiple other editors to make sure everyone is aware that editor behavior is closely watched on these articles. Vengeance 01 (talk) 04:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Ok Charvak157 (talk) 11:50, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Battle of Vikramgad edit
Hello, Charvak157. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Battle of Vikramgad".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 18:19, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you so much, I am planning to work later on the article. I will do so once I have proper references, but not right now. Charvak157 (talk) 18:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
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Battle of kalyan edit
Hii charvak I want to discuss topic on actual battle of kalyan with you There are 3 battle took place at kalyan. 1: Mughals under Hussain ali khan defeated Maratha army under tukoji&destroyed regions kalyan and was ordered to attack on Raigad as Sambhaji was busy in seige of Janjira. 2: After hearing news Sambhaji quickly moved towards Kalyan with 20000 Maratha Army,as Husaain ali khan was also prepared for war with 35000 Mughal army.The battle took place at kalyan bhiwandi in which Sambhaji defeated Mughal army and pushed them to ahmadnagar. 3)This battle was fought in 1684 where Maratha Commander in chief Hambirrao Mohite defeated Mughal army Commanded by Ranamast khan.
So out of 3 there are 2 battles was resulted in Maratha Victory. Is adding only one battles details fair as it was also not a big like 2nd battle in which Sambhaji himself Commanded Maratha army? Overall i want to ask should we create other 2 battle articles on Wikipedia page or in only one article sum up all these in result of Maratha Empire? Prathmesh Bhale (talk) 11:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Prathamesh, this is a good idea. We all know that Sambhaji and Hambirrao Mohite smashed the Mughal army at Kalyan and it was still written as Mughal victory. This is unfair. And we will decide whether to put it into a single article or three seperate ones depending on the kind of references we have. Can you please tell me which references are you using for this information? Because Wikipedia doesn't accept novels like Sambhaji as a reference no matter how historically accurate they are. Even I had tried it, saying that Sambhaji, although a novel, it is historically very accurate. But the other editors didn't accept it. They only want references from proper history books. Can you please tell me which books are you using aa reference? Depending on that we can take the decision of 1 or 3 articles accordingly Charvak157 (talk) 10:26, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
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Nomination of Maratha occupation of Kolwan (1672) for deletion edit
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