62.3.255.103

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January 2014

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), such as at Talk:Michael Schumacher, please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

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Thank you. hydrox (talk) 14:16, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Trackr

Thank you for your contribution, but it's not a Wikipedia page yet. Please continue your work.Xx236 (talk) 10:34, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Attempting to purge biological articles of teleological language

Hi, I think you already know I disagree with you on your attempts to remove all traces of teleology.

Firstly, I think the task misguided - biologists of every kind routinely use such language, and there are more than plentiful examples in print, including those that are cited in the articles you are trying to modify. Therefore, at the least, editors ought not to try to remove usages which are justified by the sources.

Secondly, there is an obvious risk that people who wish to remove teleological language, possibly you, have an axe to grind, which could include being very pure and philosophical (though philosophers of biology disagree on the matter), and could also include being personally opposed to creationism for whatever reason. Either way, this would constitute WP:POV editing, which is quite rightly forbidden by Wikipedia policy. Our role as editors is to reflect current understanding, not to influence it.

Therefore, editors ought not to try to remove teleological usages familiar to biologists unless they have reliable sources to the contrary, and even then, since many biologists do routinely use such language in other reliable sources, the most that ought to be done is perhaps to qualify or add a footnote or link (say to a teleology article, or to Wiktionary) to explain why the teleological language is in use.

I do hope that we can agree on these suggestions, as I feel you are starting to do something profoundly wrong, even if for the best of motives. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

It occurs to me that this may need to go to an Evolutionary Biology project page as this is not only a matter for one or two articles, nor a matter between you and me. I'll see what might be appropriate and ping you. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:41, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I've started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biology#Should_biological_articles_be_purged_of_teleological_language.3F I hope we can wait to see what people think. This may take a little time as it is now the holiday season. Thank you for your understanding. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:52, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

(moved here to keep discussion together)

Hello, I think you have taken a sensible approach to this disagreement, starting with your teleology in biology article, and now the project biology thread. I'll respond in due course, the issue has a large spread, and there's no rush.

kind regards 62.3.255.103 (talk) 00:31, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. No, there's no hurry. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:55, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

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