Template:Did you know nominations/dedham public schools
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 13:02, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
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Dedham Public Schools edit
* ... that the Dedham Public Schools was the first public school system in the United States?
- ... that the Dedham Public Schools had the first tax-supported public school in the United States?
Created by Briancua (talk). Self nominated at 20:57, 9 October 2013 (UTC).
Good article, and the hook is simple and effective. I'd say its ready. ViperSnake151 Talk 04:31, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
It's a nice little article, but I'm surprised by this review: I noticed issues in the article when cleaning up this submission, but didn't have time to do a full review. What I did see makes me wonder whether ViperSnake151 actually read the source given for this hook, FN2. There is nothing in the source or article about a "first public school system" here, just a first public school. School systems are completely different animals. But that's minor: the point here is that there is a clear dispute as to whether Dedham had the first public school or not. Both Rehoboth and Boston have competing claims, and the date given in the article for Dedham, January 1, 1643, doesn't even match the date on the plaque shown in the source. The article needs to be far more clear about the dates and the competing claims, and the fact that the source and experts quoted haven't come to a conclusion on the various claims, not to mention the potential calendar discrepancies. The hook—which I have struck due to its issues—cannot present a clearly disputed claim as fact.
- There is also the problem that the article needs more sourcing. The "Closed schools" and "Associated organizations" sections need at least one inline source citation per paragraph; both have none. Once this has been taken care of, the article adjusted to lay out the competing claims, and a new hook devised, it will be ready for further review. I look forward to seeing the revised material. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
New reviewer needed to recheck the article and its sources, and make sure the issues raised have been addressed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:32, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
Ahh little towns fighting for those tourism dollars... Always a fun slog to sort out. So anyways I looked at the article and sources and.. I don't know. I did change some stuff in the article because I don't feel the sources back it up. The most glaring thing I noticed was when the vote to establish the school took place. As detailed on the talk page the article had said it took place on Nov 2, 1644 while the only source I could find that mentions a date says "first day of the eleventh month" so its definitely not Nov 2. The plaque in the town says Jan 1, which may or may not be consistent with what the source says (calendar changes ftw... not). I made a few other changes for verifibility and consistency and if you want the reasoning for those, see my edit summaries. Also, in the process of my research on this I noticed that most of the content in the History section of the article was copied almost verbatim from the second paragraph of History of Dedham, Massachusetts, 1635–1792#Firsts, which is ok but it might disqualify this from DYK because of the length requirement. If the length thing is ok (still getting used to the new DYK rules), I would support running the article since the length/date stuff is fine and I'm about as sure as I can be that the present article is accurate. It might be better though to use the following alt hook to be sure it is accurate: Thingg⊕⊗ 03:43, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... that the Dedham Public Schools had the first public school in the United States to be exclusively supported by taxes?
- Well, "first day of the eleventh month" was likely January 1, since England had New Year's Day as Ascension Day (March 25) until 1752, and Massachusetts was an English colony. The year would have technically been 1644, I suppose, but we'd think of it today as 1645; I believe the current nomenclature for these dates from January 1 through March 24 is 1644/5. (Note that the Slater source, FN2, lists a meeting two years [minus a day] earlier as January 2, 1642-3.) As for the copying of content from other Wikipedia articles, it's allowed, though the edit summary should give credit to the originating article. According to DYK rules, any copied material requires 5x expansion, so the article needs to be at least five times as large as the copied material. By my count, the copied material from that part of the History article was 360 characters, which would require the article to be at least 1800 prose characters as opposed to the minimum 1500 for new articles; as this article is 4306 prose characters, it more than qualifies. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:22, 3 November 2013 (UTC)