Template:Did you know nominations/Life with My Sister Madonna

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Life with My Sister Madonna edit

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~~that Christopher Ciccone wrote Life with My Sister Madonna as a catharsis for his strained relationship with Madonna?~~ Source: Irish Independent

Reviewed: Leonard Owen
Comment: If possible, it would be ideal for this to appear on main page on August 16, 2018 as that is Madonna's 60th birthday.

Created by SNUGGUMS (talk), expanded by IndianBio (talk). Nominated by SNUGGUMS (talk) at 01:44, 28 July 2018 (UTC).

August 16--well, let's have at it, then. Will review. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

General eligibility:

New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: There are minor wording issues, but there's nothing here that doesn't preclude it from DYK. I suggest that you get a copyedit before going any further. Expanded 5x on July 28, within 5 days of expansion. 10543 characters long. Did a quick check on sources, seems fine. Neutrality: hard to do in this case, I'm sure, but admirable job accomplishing it, anyway. Hook is fine. Thanks for not going into more detail about Ciccone's catharsis, since this will be on the main page, eww. ;) No pic of Madonna? Not necessary, just asking 'cause I'm curious. Get that QPQ done, and I'll pass for DYK, hopefully in time for the birthday. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:38, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Figureskatingfan I presume by "done" you mean the QPQ nomination Template:Did you know nominations/Leonard Owen gets closed, but should mention that I did review its entry thoroughly and approve of the hook. Snuggums (talk / edits) 00:01, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok, no problem; you didn't record it here, so I figured that it hadn't been done, which confused and surprised me, 'cause I would've thought you knew better. ;) You're good to go, then.

Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks for that :) Snuggums (talk / edits) 00:47, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I don't see the hook fact in the article or the source. The article says "it wasn't just a catharsis", while the source says the therapy was what was cathartic and the book was a result. Yoninah (talk) 22:41, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Actually, a different source is given in the article than on this nomination. Even so, the Irish Independent source cited on this template says the book "wasn't just a catharsis". Please fix up the referencing in the article. Perhaps a new hook would be best. Yoninah (talk) 22:43, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Madonna performing during the Rebel Heart Tour in 2015

Facepalm Sorry about that, Yoninah. How about (citing aforementioned Irish Independent link) "that Christopher Ciccone wrote Life with My Sister Madonna after reflecting on his strained relationship with Madonna (pictured)" instead? The text I derive this from is "Was it the moment he decided to write the book? 'It happened in stages,' he says. 'Our relationship was very strained back in 2003 and over a period of three or four years I got a chance to look back on it. I had some therapy and some soul searching. I had been attached to her life for so long and it was hard to see myself as a separate person.'" Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:52, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes @SNUGGUMS and Yoninah: I like that hook better than the original one as it is more interesting, and maybe a little bit "bitter", a theme widely discussed in the article itself as to why Ciccone wrote the book. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 05:32, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, but I really think you could do better. First, we have no Wikipedia page about Christopher Ciccone, so maybe we can refer to him as "Madonna's younger brother". Second, you have plenty of interesting facts that don't violate BLP in the article. You might pipe the link as follows: "that a tell-all book by Madonna's younger brother ..." I'd prefer to use the image for "Rescue Me", however. Yoninah (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Not sure what other options intriguing bits stand out to you from the article, but if the image isn't used here, then perhaps "that Madonna's brother Christopher Ciccone wrote a tell-all book on her after reflecting on their strained relationship" or something along those lines. IndianBio, what are your thoughts? I can't come up with anything better right now. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:40, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I think this is a fine way of including the bit about Christopher Ciccone being Madge's brother, SNUGGUMS. Like I said before, it does make it interesting that her brother wrote a tell-all book. The only other pretty interesting hook would be Ciccone calling it better than orgasm, which I'm not sure we wanna include? —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 04:07, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Glad you like it, and the orgasm bit would be just plain weird. Snuggums (talk / edits) 05:46, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

And ew, really icky. ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:12, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Figureskatingfan, unless you or Yoninah have any better ideas (in which case you should mention them), I hope my most recent hook can get approved ASAP. Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:40, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that the publisher of Life with My Sister Madonna, a tell-all book by the singer's younger brother, sold it to retailers without revealing the title or the subject matter in order to create a media stir? Yoninah (talk) 20:11, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I like the first hook better, but I'm fine with either one. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:39, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: we are not able to use someone's name who doesn't have a Wikipedia page. Yoninah (talk) 20:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

ALT2: ~~... that Madonna's younger brother wrote a tell-all book about their deteriorating relationship and published it against her objections?~~ Yoninah (talk) 20:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Duh sorry, did not know that. Your hook is good, so this should be good to go, right? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:11, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, I'm waiting for the page creators SNUGGUMS and IndianBio to weigh in, and if you choose one of the hooks I wrote, someone else will have to approve it. A slot has been reserved for it in Prep 4. Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Of the alts that Yoninah gave, I personally prefer the one on a media stir as that seems more likely to intrigue the average reader. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:46, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. OK, @Figureskatingfan: please review ALT1 and give it a tick. Then someone else will promote it. Yoninah (talk) 00:53, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

ALT1 good to go. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 01:30, 12 August 2018‎ (UTC)