- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 20:47, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
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Iain MacNeal
- ... that when the Canadian baritone Iain MacNeal appeared as Odysseus, the title role of Dallapiccola's Ulisse, at the Oper Frankfurt, a reviewer noted that he portrayed the "character's self-exegeses"? Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Freies Deutsches Hochstift
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 12:56, 22 July 2022 (UTC).
- Initial review: New enough (submitted within 4 days of creation); long enough (1875 characters of prose); has inline citations including reviews in multiple independent, reliable sources; Earwig says copyvio unlikely. QPQ is done. So what remains is the hook: All the facts mentioned are cited within the article, and the hook is interesting. My main feedback is that it could be simplified a bit – there are so many components to this hook, it's hard to parse and I'm not sure where you want the reader to click (i.e., probably a good idea to remove at least 1–2 wikilinks). Also, while the reviewer's use of the term "self-exegeses" (plural, no less) is indeed attention-getting, I'm finding it even more interesting when read in context. So here are slightly modified versions of the same hook:
- ALT0a ... that when Canadian baritone Iain MacNeal appeared as Odysseus in Dallapiccola's Ulisse at the Oper Frankfurt, a reviewer said he conveyed the "character's self-exegeses with excellent diction"?
- ALT0b ... that when Canadian baritone Iain MacNeal appeared as Odysseus in Dallapiccola's Ulisse at the Oper Frankfurt, a reviewer said he conveyed the "character's self-exegeses with striking clarity"?
- The main difference between these two is the translation of "mit markanter Textverständlichkeit" — ALT0a is the way it appears in the article now; ALT0b is a possible tweak (which would require a corresponding edit to the article). @Gerda Arendt: What do you think? Cielquiparle (talk) 03:48, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- Re the difference between ALT0, and the extended ALT0a/b. I'm for ALT0.
- The reason is, that the self-exegeses are extraordinary enough in themselves. This is Ulysses. By comparison, for the introvert Hamlet, for example, to spend lots of time angsting in self-analysis is to be expected - we are sad for him, but it is to be expected. For thee and me to say, "Aaagh, I've just gone and said the wrong thing and angered the boss", is a self-analysis also to be expected (of some of us at least). But for the great hero Ulysses to be seen examining his own navel is extraordinary. Heroes don't do that ... do they? So if you add extra bits on the end of the hook to qualify the exegeses, you weaken the effect considerably, by taking the emphasis off what the hero is actually doing. In ALTs 0a and 0b it's no longer a shock to see the guy with the pecs and the six-pack going off into a corner and self-examining - you are now just looking at whether he's making a nice job of it.
- For the reviewer to make a point of noting it, MacNeal must be bringing out that self-aware side of the character when other performers maybe minimise it, or just don't bring it to the audience's attention at all - so the point of ALT0 is that MacNeal is doing it at all, not about how he is doing it.
- So, I'm for ALT0. Storye book (talk) 09:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your feedback Storye book. I still don't love the verb "portrays", but given the context I guess it's fine. Approved to go per initial review above, plus subsequent feedback on hooks. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:38, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt, Storye book, and Cielquiparle: I was going to promote ALT0, but the hook's flow is interrupted by the back-to-back parentheticals and the commas used to make it gramatically correct. Can the hook be rephrased or trimmed to reduce the number of commas? I'm not sure if ALTa and ALTb are suitable replacements per the conversation above, which is why I recommend a rephrase. Thanks everyone, Z1720 (talk) 01:00, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Z1720: How is this? It loses "the title role of" but I think that is implicit and maybe we shouldn't overexplain since it's confusing with so many parts:
- ALT0a: ... that when the Canadian baritone Iain MacNeal appeared as Odysseus in Dallapiccola's Ulisse at the Oper Frankfurt, a reviewer noted that he portrayed the "character's self-exegeses"? Cielquiparle (talk) 03:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the offer, - it works, but I confess that when I read "Ulisse" the first time (for Monteverdi's work) I did not make the connection that it meant Odysseus. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:06, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0a: ... that when the Canadian baritone Iain MacNeal appeared as Odysseus in Dallapiccola's Ulisse at the Oper Frankfurt, a reviewer noted that he portrayed the "character's self-exegeses"? Cielquiparle (talk) 03:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0a works for me, too. Storye book (talk) 08:10, 8 August 2022 (UTC)