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Template:Did you know nominations/Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

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Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen edit

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  • Reviewed: to come
  • Comment: for Christmas, please, could be 24 December late set

Converted from a redirect by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 11:58, 16 December 2018 (UTC).

  • Let's rush this for the 24th, then. Article meets criteria, but hook isn't that interesting and also falls under being the plot of a fictional work (it's about the lyrics/content of a song). So instead I suggest
Kingsif (talk) 21:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the offer, but ... - The four-part chorale would not be called a song, and "different" makes no sense if there was nothing to compare. - The leaping for joy is simply a translation, - nothing fictional about that.
ALT2: ... that "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen", a Christmas hymn by Paul Gerhardt, was first published with a melody by Johann Crüger, but Bach used a different melody when he inserted the final stanza in his Christmas Oratorio? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
It's "fictional" in the sense it's comparable to the first sentence of a story, which wouldn't make a DYK, and "different" obviously refers to "Fröhlich...", which the layman would certainly call a song by its broadest definition. ALT2 is good, but far too long (230 characters). How about just
ALT3: ... that when Bach inserted the final stanza of the hymn "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen" into his Christmas Oratorio, he changed its melody?
Kingsif (talk) 22:50, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Do you have a source that Bach even knew the other melody? Do you suggest to make the hymn known without naming its authors?
ALT4: ... that "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen", a hymn by Paul Gerhardt published with a melody by Johann Crüger, became part of Bach's Christmas Oratorio with a different melody? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
No source on Bach, I was just simplifying phrasing, but point acknowledged that "change" suggests an active effort. Yes, I do suggest to make the hymn known without naming its authors, we do it with lots of other things on DYK. It really doesn't matter who wrote it, especially since part of the intention of DYK is to get people to click into the article where they can read that (and the other is simply to share a single fun fact on the item, not a fun fact plus the item's history). ALT4 is still 180 characters, and it has too many parts to it. Shorter, and simpler, is better. It's a bad hook. I know you're experienced on wikipedia and in DYK, surely you know these things? Kingsif (talk) 23:13, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
ALT5: ... that the hymn "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen" became part of Bach's Christmas Oratorio with a different melody than in its original publication?
Thanks for the lecture. We had hundreds of hooks around Bach (by me). Let's do justice to Gerhardt and Crüger please. Gerhardt's name is a guarantee that clicking on a strange German phrase is worthwhile.
ALT6 ... that "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen" (Merrily my heart shall leap) is a Christmas hymn by Paul Gerhardt? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:23, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Yes, the fun fact being its connection a semi-famous (at least in continental Europe, not sure about worldwide) churchman. That's alright. If you want to get over Bach-centrism, which I think is what you were saying, then it's a good choice of hook over other facts. Needs slight tweaking so it doesn't appear to just be saying "this exists" (add a "but"). Kingsif (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
ALT7: ... that the German Christmas hymn "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen" (Merrily my heart shall leap) was written by Paul Gerhardt but given a melody by Johann Crüger?
I liked that lecture better, but the "but" doesn't work. I recall only two who wrote both text and melody for their hymns, Christoph Bernhard Verspoell and Martin Luther, but the latter often used older models, and the help from his friend Johann Walter. No "but", but the usual sharing of tasks.
ALT8: ... that the German Christmas hymn "Fröhlich soll mein Herze springen" (Merrily my heart shall leap) by Paul Gerhardt was published by Johann Crüger who also wrote the melody? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I liked your lecture, at least it's educational. With that information in mind, ALT8 is good. Thank you for discussing this for so long. Kingsif (talk) 14:10, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @Kingsif: is there a QPQ with this nomination? Yoninah (talk) 17:19, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I can't remember which, but @Gerda Arendt: did do a review on the day I approved this, I saw it on the nom page. Kingsif (talk) 19:23, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks! Restoring tick (for foreign-language and, for me, offline source) per your review. Yoninah (talk) 19:50, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
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