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Template:Did you know nominations/Fly Fishing: Memories of Angling Days

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:17, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

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Fly Fishing: Memories of Angling Days edit

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  • ... that we do have a copy of Fly Fishing by J.R. Hartley? Source:Organization Theory, Challenges and Perspectives. Cram 101. p. 36. ISBN 1490254358.

Created by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 20:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC).

Article is new enough and long enough. It is neutral. First hook is fine but I doubt it will make much sense to anyone outside the UK or younger than a certain age. That may not matter for April Fools. Second hook doesn't work for me even as an April Fools. Did some copy editing on the article. It's pseudonymous not ghost written. Removed the Daily Mail reference. I was puzzled by ref 1 Organization Theory, Challenges and Perspectives. It seems unlikely and a text search on Amazon did not show the word Hartley. Can we improve on ref 5 "The Man In the Know" in the Daily Record which has a bye-line of "showbiz Sam". Is there a better source for it being a best-seller? I doubt that this should really be a separate article. It should probably be part of J. R. Hartley who as a fictional character is hardly likely to be notable for anything else. Philafrenzy (talk) 09:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
@Philafrenzy: The CTI source is here, I have added another source to suppliment the Record one. The book is separate from the ad beyond being inspired by it, no point in merging. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:22, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I am ready to tick it but before I do, do you have a different wording for the alt as it doesn't work with "Did you know that" in front of it. I have warmed to it. Also, the first one isn't strictly speaking a factual statement about the article subject, Wikipedia does not have the book. Not sure whether that matters for April fool's. Perhaps other people have a view on the hooks, the other matters having been resolved. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:58, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
@Philafrenzy: Strictly speaking, under E1 of the Wikipedia:Did you know/Supplementary guidelines, "that" doesn't need to be the lead word. So if you read it as "Did you know if we have a copy....", it makes more sense (for an AFD hook of course!). If you're not happy with that, I will try to reword it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 17:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
With the exception of a couple of April Fools' Day hooks, I've never seen a hook without "that" survive to make it to the main page, so you may have a chance here because of AFDay. I'm not sure it works, though, and it may get taken up by our friends of the DYK talk page if they don't think it does. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:27, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Neither hook makes the slightest bit of sense to me, if it doesn't translate beyond the borders of a specific country, it shouldn't be run IMO. Gatoclass (talk) 10:05, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
  • The more I think on it, the more I agree. I've struck both hooks. The first is completely opaque to a non-Brit (and probably opaque to many Brits), and the second blathers on before we discover that it's apparently an author hoping that we have his book (though he or she is apparently part of that we, which is even more confusing). This needs something that's generally accessible to an April Fools' audience. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Waiting for agreement on a hook. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:36, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Agreement with whom @Philafrenzy:? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 20:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Between you and the people who don't like your hooks. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

ALT3 is not completely accurate and is not really an April Fools hook IMO. Suggested alt:

I'm inclined to think that might diminish the curiosity factor somewhat, but if you want to add an alt with the full title The C of E, I have no objection to that. Gatoclass (talk) 08:47, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
ALT5... that Fly Fishing by J.R. Hartley was written by a fictional character from a TV advertisement? @Gatoclass: The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Fine by me The C of E, we can leave the set builder to choose the version they prefer. I have struck the earlier hooks on the basis that there was no agreement on them. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 09:05, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
I thought Michael Russell wrote it? Philafrenzy (talk) 09:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Yes, under the pseudonym of J. R. Hartley, a fictional character from a TV advertisement. Gatoclass (talk) 10:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Philafrenzy, Gatoclass, so far as I can see, this nomination is still not approved. Philafrenzy, this was originally your review; do you feel you can continue, or is a new reviewer needed. (Since ALT4 is Gatoclass's, and ALT5 a variant on it, Gatoclass can't approve either of the remaining hooks.) BlueMoonset (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
We still don't have an acceptable hook. Call me pedantic if you like but the book was not written by a fictional character as such a thing is impossible, it was written by Michael Russell. It needs some sort of rewording. Whether any humour will remain then is doubtful. Sorry C of E but this all proceeds from the article (which should not even exist) being based on a too-clever idea. Why don't you call for a new reviewer? Philafrenzy (talk) 10:45, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was written by Mark Twain. Did Mark Twain actually exist? No, he was a fiction created by the real author, Samuel Langhorne Clemens. So in that sense, one could say the book was written by a fictional character. The same applies in this case.
Hooks appearing on April Fools day still have to be true in some way, but they don't have to be literally true, if they did, April Fools day at DYK would probably be unviable. Gatoclass (talk) 10:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Mark Twain was a pseudonym, not a fictional character. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:59, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Not a fictional character, no, but a fictitious identity. J. B. Hartley is likewise a fictitious identity, but in this case he also happens to be a fictional character in a TV advertisement. Gatoclass (talk) 11:42, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
This proves my point. It is all too complicated and metaphysical. You can't rely on our readers bothering with all that stuff. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:01, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
There's nothing to figure out Phil! It's right there in the article, sheesh. Gatoclass (talk) 13:31, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Fine I will leave it open for another reviewer for this April Fools Hook, but in doing so I am leaving the original open for consideration too. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:15, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Sorry, the original hook was not acceptable and has been struck again. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Still waiting for a review of ALTs 4 and 5. Gatoclass (talk) 18:04, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to move things along. But ALTs 4 and 5 are plainly wrong – the fictional character didn't write it. The author hid behind the name of a fictional character to write the book. If you could form a hook from that, it might work. Yoninah (talk) 19:13, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
ALTs 7 and 8 don't work for me at all, because all they basically do is state that a book was written by somebody other than the named author, which is a commonplace (either through pseudonyms or ghostwriting). I think we should stick to ALT6, which has the "what the heck did I just read?" quality one wants from an April Fools hook. Either that or ALT5, which I still think is a viable AFD hook. Gatoclass (talk) 14:51, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

How about something like:

ticked Alt9. Philafrenzy (talk) 16:44, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
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