Template:Did you know nominations/Ecoregions in Poland

The following is an archived discussion of Ecoregions in Poland's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Carabinieri (talk) 20:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC).

Ecoregions in Poland edit

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... that rare European bison (pictured), the heaviest surviving wild land animal on the continent, inhabits one of the endangered Ecoregions in Poland?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Catastrophic injury.

Created by Poeticbent (talk). Self nom at 20:43, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

New article, meets DYK length requirement, hook is cited. I would suggest wikilinking European bison. --PlanetEditor (talk) 16:12, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the review, PlanetEditor, much appreciated. The European bison is prominently i-linked at our new article. That's enough. No need to take the attention away from the actual Ecoregions in Poland. All best, Poeticbent talk 17:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Bisonshit! Just link it. The English of the hook is awkward if not incorrect. Plural bison "inhabits" ... Johnbod (talk) 21:56, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that the heaviest surviving wild European land animal, the rare European bison (pictured), inhabits one of the endangered Ecoregions in Poland? Johnbod (talk) 21:56, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't see why the European-European needs to be repeated twice in a hook where every character counts. European bison is not the subject of our new DYK article. Also, what do you mean by plural bison "inhabits"? Isn't that, what you and I proposed? Our guests can read all about it in our target article also, which can be more fun. Please see my ALT2 below. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 22:50, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

ALT2 ... that one of the critical/endangered Ecoregions in Poland is home to the heaviest surviving wild land animal in Europe (pictured)?

That's ok, except you should link (I'd say piped is fine) to European bison, and not link to Europe (too common). You used plural form "rare European bison" with a singular form verb. Johnbod (talk) 00:28, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Johnbod. I'm removing i-link to Europe per your comment, and crossing out unneeded lines. Poeticbent talk 14:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Article needs a reviewer to check ALT2, since changes have apparently been made since Johnbod's comments on it. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

I have some problems with this hook going forward. Two main issues: Neutrality, the article relies on a single source and includes long passages extolling the efforts of that source, and connection between content and sources, the article is not always clearly supported by the sources (clearly not close paraphrasing, but wandering too far afield). Specifically: 1. The Lead discussion with two clauses about what the WWF is seems to be too lengthy for a lead. 2. The lead says there are two ecoregions, but three are identified in text. (possibly more according to note1) 3. Only really one source (WWF website and a report where the research was paid for by the WWF). Google books search showed lots of other sources about ecoregions in Poland focusing mainly on riparian issues, but the article does not talk about these at all. 4. The section "The World Wide Fund in Poland" gets the name of the organization wrong, it should be World Wide Fund for Nature in Poland (small issue). 5. I'm not sure about the relevance of that section. Why does it matter what the WWF did about the Kyoto Protocol for the topic of this article (Ecoregions in Poland)? 6. The sources don't seem to line up with the content. So, Wikipedia article says "human encroachment=fewer bison" (the European Bison page says it is hunting, fyi), but the source on page 12 says that the primary forces determining population decrease were A. political instability (leading to chaos and over hunting) and B. competition with deer for food resources. Ecosystem fragmentation seems to be held to be only a minor cause (or at least one amongst many). 7. on the hook. ALT2: The hook says "heaviest surviving wild land animal in Europe" which has problems: A. Heaviest is not in the source (they call them large grazers without any comparative term), B. Source does not specify where in Poland they live and the article does which is fine, but a better source is needed. Clean-up of the article on these points would be necessary, as it is a very important topic. AbstractIllusions (talk) 14:12, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail. It is a rare occasion in our DYKnom-reviews to have someone as knowledgeable as you in such narrow fields, willing to share their insights. I added the new references independent of WWF (identified as the source) to remain neutral. ✓ My intention is to present an overview for the general public, that's why the WWF (which is the source of terminology used thereafter) has been better described in the Lede originally, however I already shortened it substantially ✓ per your initial comment. Ecoregions, and Eco-zones are two different things… as I have learned in the process. Poland is part of two ecoregions, but three (3) eco-zones sometimes referred to as the life zones... sorry, the confusion originates at the source, because the two words are often used interchangeably in books. However, all sources indicate that ecoregions are mostly the WWF domain, as oppose to Natura 2000 (which is an EU matter), that's why the work of WWF Polska have been included in the article.[1]

As far as the European bison is concerned, I tried not to rely on our Wikipedia article about it. It is an endangered species. I don't know anything about any present day hunting. Hybrids maybe? I assume, the source you're referring to is book by Zdzisław Pucek, which says on page 12 (quote): "Changes in bison numbers (...before its extinction in the wild at the end of World War I...) were shaped predominantly by human activity, including chaos and poaching..." the chaos, meaning lawlessness. However, the 1553 death penalty for the poaching of European bison is mentioned on page 14 of the same book. I added new inline citation about its status at IUCN. ✓ Thank again, AbstractIllusions. Much obliged, Poeticbent talk 22:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Alt 2 hook is supported by great source, other problems were resolved (quickly!) by editor making this good to go. Cheers. AbstractIllusions (talk) 22:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)