Template:Did you know nominations/2011 United States listeriosis outbreak from cantaloupes

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Orlady (talk) 14:12, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

2011 United States listeriosis outbreak from cantaloupes edit

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... ~~that the 2011 United States listeriosis outbreak from cantaloupes is one of the three worst foodborne illness outbreaks in the United States in number of deaths?~~

Reviewed: Bergmann Hotel
Comment: This article is currently up for an ITN nomination here. If that nomination passes, then I will withdraw this nomination, as the article will no longer be eligible for DYK. But if it fails the ITN nomination, then please review this as normally. For now, please do not review this nomination. Silver seren^C 21:21, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Created/expanded by Silver seren (talk), Wnt (talk), Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk). Nominated by Silver seren (talk) at 21:21, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

The ITN nom has failed, so please feel free to review this nomination just as normally. Apologies for the wait. Silver seren^C 16:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Article is long enough, was new when nominated, is adequately sourced, and does not appear to have any plagiarism issues (but I have not checked every source). Hook has a problem: The article states that this is now the "second largest" outbreak, but the source cited for that fact still indicates that it's the third largest. The problem is that the situation is changing with time. Article and sourcing need to be updated. Also, maybe this needs a hook that can't be outdated by tomorrow's news -- for example, use "as of [date]" language in the hook... --Orlady (talk) 20:18, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
ALT1: ... ~~that the 2011 United States listeriosis outbreak is one of the three worst foodborne illness outbreaks in the United States by number of deaths in the past 40 years?~~

I added "in the past 40 year" as a clarifier that, as of the past 40 years of this DYK, it is one of the top three. If it is subjugated in the future by something worse, that doesn't invalidate this statement. And it also clarifies for readers what time frame we're speaking of, which is good. Silver seren^C 20:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and I removed the "from cantaloupes" bit, because it was decided on the talk page that that was inappropriate and the page was moved back to its original spot. Silver seren^C 20:37, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

To make it easier to track this discussion, I've restored the previous hook suggestion and identified the edited version as ALT1. While it made sense to remove "cantaloupes" from the article title, I think that the association with cantaloupes makes the hook far more interesting, at least for people who know something about Listeria but may be unaware of this outbreak. Accordingly, let's consider:

ALT2: ... that an ongoing outbreak of listeriosis associated with cantaloupes is now one of the three worst U.S. outbreaks of foodborne illness in the past 40 years, as measured in number of deaths?

I'm still concerned that the hook fact and the article need to be consistent, and where the hook fact appears in the article it needs to match what the cited sources say. The lead section of the article currently says "It is the second worst foodborne illness outbreak in the United States, measured by the number of deaths, since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began tracking outbreaks in the 1970s", but cites a source from two weeks ago that called it the third worst. Apparently people are updating the article text without updating the sources cited; that should be fixed. I've updated a couple of items in the article based on current information, but I haven't found a source for the assertion that it is now the "second worst." --Orlady (talk) 21:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

The main reason, I think, why there aren't currently any sources saying second worst is that the other incident described as second worst had an indeterminate amount of deaths, ranging from 18-22, so until the number of deaths passes 22, we can't be certain (though can be quite sure currently) that it is worse than the prior outbreak. Thus, sources won't be made until after it passes that level. And your Alt is fine. Silver seren^C 22:05, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. Can you please correct the article? --Orlady (talk) 00:38, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. No promises someone else won't turn it back though. I'll do my best to keep it this way until a reference shows up. Silver seren^C 03:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Great! The fix was easier than I thought it might turn out to be. ALT1 or ALT2 both check out as OK. (I happen to think the wording of ALT2 is clearer...) --Orlady (talk) 03:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I like Alt 2 as well. In order to make sure that the processor picks the right one to put in the queue, i've struck the other ones, since i've had them mess up before. Silver seren^C 04:07, 10 October 2011 (UTC)