Talk:Zenzizenzizenzic

Spelling

I corrected the assertion about Recorde's spelling; a scan of the relevant page in the original book is on the right. -- Dominus 01:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Zenzizenzizenzic

The article currently claims that Zenzizenzizenzic is the notation, but it's not, it's a word that is one example of the notation. A notation is how to do all the different ways that you can write things. And that's the problem with the article- it's constrained by the title which locks it into being about the word; it's a dictionary article.- Wolfkeeper 16:47, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Can you rewrite "A notation is how to do all the different ways that you can write things." in a way that makes more sense, please? I have no idea what you're trying to say. And what is a word, anyway, but a notation for a thing? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

A notation is a scheme for expressing things, an example written in a particular a notation is called a term.- Wolfkeeper 19:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

If we say an alphabetic sentence is a notation, then 'I ate the crab apple.' is a term in that notation. A notation is a way of writing things down, not something you've written in it. Zenzizenzizenzic is a term not a notation.- Wolfkeeper 19:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

It's a way of writing down eighth powers. In that sense it's not dissimilar to mathematical notations still in use like $\scriptstyle \log x$, which still can be spelled out as "the logarithm of x"; one could imagine a modernized version of the zenzizenzizenzic notation in which we write $\scriptstyle {\mathop {\mathrm {zzz} } }\,x$ for the eighth power of x, if only we didn't have much better alternative notations. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:12, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, I can see what you mean, but that seems to be your OR (I don't mean that in a bad sense, but I don't think that notations are normally considered hierarchical, and the guy clearly did invent a general notation in the image). Actually, that is a thought, we could merge this with mathematical notation; mathematical notation is not very big.- Wolfkeeper 20:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be an unduly large proportion of the mathematical notation article: the history of mathematical notation is long and large and this particular notation is not a very important part of it. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:38, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

It's really only a couple of paragraphs, and I think we could cut it down to a paragraph and an image.- Wolfkeeper 20:41, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

And the guy is notable for inventing the equality operator, probably in the same publication.- Wolfkeeper 20:46, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Can we add the pronunciation of the word in the lede sentence? I assume it's zen-zee-zen-zee-zen'-sik (or its IPA equivalent). — Loadmaster (talk) 22:54, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

See WP:NOTDICTIONARY, MOS:LEADPRON, and MOS:FIRST "Be wary of cluttering the first sentence with a long parenthesis containing alternative spellings, pronunciations, etc., which can make the sentence difficult to actually read; this information can be placed elsewhere." If the pronunciation is non-obvious, and we have reliable sources for the non-obvious pronunciation, then we can add it somewhere other than in the lead sentence. If the pronunciation is the obvious one, then I don't see the point of adding it at all, and if we don't have sources, we cannot add it. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:54, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Easy for you to say. Obvious might be a bit presumptuous here. How do we know, for instance, that the "zizen" portions are not pronounced zeye-zen, with a long i sound? — Loadmaster (talk) 18:27, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Would a pronounciation guide even be meaningful, given that the main record of this word is written, from a time during the great vowel shift? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:34, 22 January 2021 (UTC)