Talk:Yorkshire County Cricket Club

County Boundaries

re: the section in the article...

"Yorkshire CCC has repeatedly stated that it represents the true, traditional county of Yorkshire, that is, the three ridings and the city of York."

There is an area to the west of York that included the parish I was born in, Acomb, called 'The Ainsty', connected to and administered from the city of York and not part of the West Riding. Therefore it's my belief the above comment should read...

"Yorkshire CCC has repeatedly stated that it represents the true, traditional county of Yorkshire, that is, the three ridings and the city and Ainsty of York."

I made this change in one of my earlier edits. 194.203.110.127 11:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This is an international encyclopaedia and it needs to be made clear that the West Riding has no meaning except in tradition. If 194 etc disagrees he should register so we can have a proper discussion. BlueValour

West Riding has a very important and current meaning as any internet search will confirm. There has never been a Yorkshire County Council so to argue that the absence of a council means a county doesn't exist is quite absurd. 194.203.110.127 11:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yorkshire Phoenix

I added a bit to try to explain the Yorkshire Phoenix redirect today. I'm not overly happy with my explanation so if anyone could rewrite it that'd be grand. 194.203.110.127 11:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Revamp

I have done a major revamp of the article. Pinning dressing room disharmony on Boycott has been removed pending a citation and I have detached the 'Yorkshire born' rule from the lack of ethnic players, again due to lack of citation.

Certain areas require developing:

• Details of the Headingley ground ownership before Yorkshire bought it.
• An account of the transition from a Committee structure to a Board of Directors.
• A commentary on the 1 day and Twenty20 sides.
• Fuller details of 1975-2000.

BlueValour 27 May 2006 http://www.terriers.me.uk/

Abbeydale Park

I have reverted the edit suggesting that Yorkshire have played county cricket outside the traditional boundaries. Cricket had been played at Abbeydale Park, in the village of Dore, south-west Sheffield but only since 1946.[1] Dore, though once part of Derbyshire became a constituent of Sheffield, and hence the West Riding (did I really say South Riding in an edit summary :-( ) in 1934 - see Totley#History and geography. TerriersFan 04:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you are requiring here. You agree here that Dore is not within the traditional, pre-1889, borders of Yorkshire. So this shows that Yorkshire have played home matches outside the traditional boundaries. 1934 border changes are no more accepted by the ABC than the 1974 ones. I'm not sure why Yorkshire did this. Possibly they didn't know. Possibly they didn't care. Morwen - Talk 12:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added a couple of links that demonstrate this. Morwen - Talk 13:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe that YCCC - like many, including myself - take a more fluid approach to Yorkshire boundaries than ABC & co. Sheffield is obviously a Yorkshire city and as it speads the Yorkshire border (in my mind at least) spreads with it. This is in contrast to the way that the part of Stockton-on-Tees south of the Tees is officially in Yorkshire, but let's be realistic: Stockton is a town in County Durham and thus someone from Stockton is from Co Durham, regardless which bit of the town he is from. Dividing a town or city up like this is a bit odd to say the least and goes against the natural identity of residents. 193.128.121.19 16:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed notable players section

I've pasted this section into the talk page so it can be discussed rather than the article reverted, without fear of being lost. Yorkshire Phoenix 09:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This list is heavily POV. Dickie Bird, for example, may have been a well-known umpire but he was hardly a notable player. There was nothing especially notable about some of the captains either: such as Billy Sutcliffe, Vic Wilson or Ronnie Burnet. There should in any case be a separate section for captains as there is for a few other counties. Even some who made occasional Test appearances (e.g., Padgett) were hardly notable unless we include every single Test player in such lists.

The main thing wrong with it, as with all these "notable players" lists, is that it totally ignores numerous players from the distant past who really were notable. Where are Lockwood, Ulyett, Wainwright, Peate, Brown, Tunnicliffe, Peel, Jackson (especially), Bates, Bevan (a recent one and arguably our best overseas player), Bowes (another especially), Denton, Haigh, Holmes, Kilner, Mitchell, Wardle (also especially), Watson, Rockley Wilson and no doubt a few more?

Furthermore, although Jason Gillespie and Stephen Fleming are certainly notable Test cricketers, have they done anything notable for Yorkshire?

The way to indicate notable players is to specify an actual achievement, using the achievement as the basis for another list if necessary. The captains list accounts for several. Many of the old-time players will easily go into an appearances list. Some could qualify for lists re their batting, bowling and wicket-keeping records.

As soon as you start saying "notable" you are in POV territory, which is against Wikipedia policy and leaves you wide open to criticism re who you have included and who you have excluded. I would drop this list and work the better-known players into the article via their actual achievements. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 11:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree, but felt that if we didn't preserve the section here on the talk page someone may have reverted it's removal. This is the only CCC article I've looked at (as a Yorkshireman I have not interest in any other!) but judging by rugby and football club articles "notable players" are indeed listed according to their achievements, in a "records" section, for example, rather than a POV list like this. Yorkshire Phoenix 11:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Notable players

See also: List of Yorkshire CCC players

England

• Bob Appleyard
• Jimmy Binks
• Dickie Bird
• Geoff Boycott
• Ronnie Burnet
• Brian Close
• Tom Emmett
• Darren Gough
• John Hampshire

• Lord Hawke
• George Herbert Hirst
• Matthew Hoggard
• Sir Leonard Hutton
• Ray Illingworth
• Maurice Leyland
• Chris Old
• Doug Padgett
• Wilfred Rhodes

• Brian Sellers
• Billy Sutcliffe
• Herbert Sutcliffe
• Fred Trueman
• Michael Vaughan
• Hedley Verity
• Vic Wilson
• Norman Yardley

Australia

• Jason Gillespie
• Darren Lehmann

India

• Sachin Tendulkar

New Zealand

• Stephen Fleming

I have reverted the deletion of notable players. These list are normal in articles on sporting clubs. They are always POV but we should live with that. If you feel that the list is wrong (I have taken Bird out and put Jackson and Peel in), please feel free to edit it. TerriersFan 16:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't Shahzad, Richard Blakey, Richard Dawson and Adil Rashid be in the list of international players? Rja211077 (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Honours

Please leave this section near the bottom of the article. It is a reference section and should be below descriptive text. TerriersFan 02:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Ainsty

I have removed this. The background is given here. In 1888 the traditional boundaries of Yorkshire were intact so we can take Ainsty to be part of the West Riding. TerriersFan 02:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Bradford Park Avenue

Yorkshire played at the ground for many years, but the article concentrates almost exclusively on the defunct football club, to the extent that you get redirected to an article with "FC" in its title. Does anyone who knows more about Yorkshire CCC history than I do, feel like adding a decent section about Yorkshire's matches there? I've added a one sentence mention, but there should be more than that. JH (talk page) 21:06, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Yorkshire squad labels

Hi, I was wondering how you created this?

I'm trying to revamp my county's page and would like to add it. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daz1865 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Who are you and who is your county? you can sign you name by typing "~" 4 times Joe p15 21:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC), happy yorkshire day!

looking at his talk page, he's created a page for a player at Leicestershire County Cricket Club so I'm presuming that's his county, I've added the unsigned template to his comment. Chappy ^T_C 11:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Derbyshirecricket.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Derbyshirecricket.jpg

Image:Derbyshirecricket.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 23:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kentcricket.gif

Image:Kentcricket.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment

Most of this article is absolute drivel.

1.An over emphasis on the last 10 years

2.Unsubstantiated rubbish on the Boycott era - what were the factions - says who? about what?

3.Nothing really on the real hsitory and back ground.

4.Correctly the famous players has been removed as it is something one might find in a kiddies book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.216.183 (talk) 22:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Little has been taken from authorative texts except the stats. What were the featherbed pitches of the thirties - they were uncovered - all rubbish - it should be deleted and re-written —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.216.183 (talk) 23:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Record section

I have removed the record section from the end of the article and placed it here for the moment. I'm not sure if anyone actually likes these sections in the county articles and really such information belongs at an official Yorkshire site or on CricketArchive. As it is, it's way too long and I'm eventually hoping to put back a very truncated section (e.g. the highest total, score, aggregate, etc, rather than a long list). Obviously, if anyone feels strongly, feel free to argue here. I'd prefer to discuss it before it is put back. --Sarastro1 (talk) 00:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I also removed the international players section. I don't think such a section is needed, and it is incomplete and out of date. It could maybe be replaced as prose. Original is here. --Sarastro1 (talk) 00:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I entirely agree with the complete removal of both these sections. One is heavily against WP:NOTSTATS and is pointless given the proliferation of these mind-numbing statistics on sites like CricketArchive; the other is POV and is impossible to maintain. The way to ensure all notable players feature in the article is to include them at the appropriate point of the narrative. The article still needs a lot of work but it is already looking much better than it did when those unnecessary lists were in it. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 08:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I've now removed this from Somerset too, and placed it in separate list articles (you know me and my lists!): Somerset County Cricket Club#Records will include a short prose section on some of the more notable records, while List of Somerset first-class cricket records, List of Somerset List A cricket records, List of Somerset Twenty20 cricket records house the actual lists. Might be worth doing here too. I've also removed the notable players section, although it wouldn't surprise me to see it return soon. Harrias ^talk 22:44, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Earliest cricket in Yorkshire

This section begins with a cross-reference to Sheffield Cricket Club and it is immediately apparent that the details given in the Sheffield article do not comply with those in earliest Yorkshire. For example, the piece about cockfighting is a 1757 reference in Sheffield, not 1751. It seems to me that there is an over-reliance on two main sources in the Yorkshire article and I am dubious about Hodgson in particular.

In addition, there is a glaring error where the Darnall Ground (dated 1820s) is mentioned in connection with overarm bowling. I know for a fact that overarm began in the 1860s so is this to do with roundarm? In any case, why does it precede matches against Nottingham which took place 50 years earlier?

I think a lot of work is needed here and I especially believe that many more sources should be consulted and not just so-called "official histories". --Mykleavens (talk) 11:07, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I have rewritten much of this section by copying relevant text and sources from the Sheffield article. --Mykleavens (talk) 12:33, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

After copying the source in the Sheffield article, I notice it contains a wikilink to G. B. Buckley, the author of the source in question. Having read the article about Buckley, I think it is safe to assume that he is the more credible author as he evidently drew his material direct from primary sources in the 18th century. In addition, he has been recommended by John Arlott, no less. I doubt if Hodgson, Kilburn or Woodhouse worked to his level of detail. I believe, therefore, that the article now has an accurate account of Yorkshire cricket's early history. --Mykleavens (talk) 08:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Gurman Randhawa

I notice in the squad section that Gurman Randhawa has a red link because there is no article about him. I assume this is because he has not yet played for the first team and so does not meet the site's guidelines on article qualification. Presumably a cricketer must have a first-class record to qualify; or must have played in an international, perhaps? Can anyone point out what these rules are relating to cricketers?

I would have thought that Randhawa should have an article as he is a member of Yorkshire's squad, but is that enough? --Mykleavens (talk) 09:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

See WP:CRIN for cricket notability. Keith D (talk) 14:47, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks. That explains it well. Randhawa may have an article when he makes his first appearance in a first-class or ListA match. I think we will definitely see him this season. --Mykleavens (talk) 16:02, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Club history

I've been restructuring the article to try and comply with standards in other articles about sporting clubs, some of which are star rated. This is why there are now a couple of headings with no content as yet.

I think we need to be very careful of overdoing the history sections. I believe we should create supplementary articles which cover historical periods in depth and restrict the coverage in this article to overviews of each period. --Mykleavens (talk) 20:50, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Noticing that recent years are very scantily covered in comparison to earlier years, when this is rectified then the history section will be far to much for this article. So I think that your proposal to split off into sub-articles would be appropriate. This works in football articles so cannot see a problem in cricket articles for which there is no GA or FA county articles to follow. Keith D (talk) 22:33, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Nearly all the history up to 1914 was written by Sarastro1 and I think he should have his say on this. --Mykleavens (talk) 18:23, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Honours section

Not really being into cricket articles, but the appearance of the Honours section at the top of the article seems to break up any flow and I would have expected this to have been down the bottom as is generally the case in other sporting articles. Keith D (talk) 22:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I left it alone because it looks as if all the other county club articles have the same format but maybe we in Yorkshire should set the standard?  :-) --Mykleavens (talk) 18:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Azeem Rafiq Reference in History Section

This cites Rafiq as being the first player of Asian origin to captain England at any level. However Nasser Hussain, born in India, captained England prior to him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JenCousins (talk • contribs) 16:14, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Yorkshire County Cricket Club/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. References need to be standardised using {{cite}} templates More references required General copyedit for consistency More photographs would not go amiss Keith D 09:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 09:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 11:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Systematic Racism

Important sources gathered:

• https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29983924/yorkshire-league-chairman-resigns-wake-azeem-rafiq-comments
• https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29957956/why-black-asian-players-felt-alienated-yorkshire-cricket
• https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29795656/azeem-rafiq-was-brink-suicide-experiencing-racism-yorkshire
• https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29816947/yorkshire-south-premier-league-chairman-verbally-attacks-azeem-rafiq-racism-allegations
• https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29891998/yorkshire-racism-crisis-rana-naved-ul-hasan-speaks-systematic-taunting-yorkshire

Red Society 01 (talk) 13:03, 26 October 2020 (UTC)