Talk:Willamette Valley/Archive 1

Extent of valley?

Hello. This is a very nice article! I grew up in Salem and later lived in Portland, but I'm not familiar with the notion that the valley ends at Oregon City. Do we have some references to substantiate that? Happy editing, 128.138.86.139 16:35, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm also puzzled about this distinction, unless it is based on the perception that the upper Willamette Valley must needs be distinct from both the Tualatin Valley & Portland. -- llywrch 23:05, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Me too. I say we change it. (Willamette U. class of '88) -- Decumanus | Talk 23:45, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Done. Note: while Multnomah county is clearly drains into the Columbia River, not all of it drains by way of the Willamette river, such as the land my house sits on. -- llywrch 17:32, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Just for fun, I'm guessing you mean the Sandy? -- Decumanus | Talk 18:41, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No, my property more or less directly drains into the Columbia (there are a number of sloughs between my house & that river). Remember, if you look at a map of the catchment for any river, you'll see how it narrows as it approaches the mouth/confluence of that river. But I forgot about the Sandy -- which is another good point. -- llywrch 23:12, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Most productive agricultural area?

FYI that assertion seems to stem from the original script conversion. I'm sure almost everyone who has grown up here has heard and believes this. I'm sure it's true, but where are the sources? Here are a couple we can use to provide refs for the article.

Here is a very recent and (what I would consider) reliable citation from the Oregon Department of Agriculture about caneberries (actually uses the phrase "one of the most productive areas of the world"): [1]

Here is another good resource from ODA: [2]

I'll keep looking. Perhaps we can ask someone at OSU. I'm not having the best luck googling for the info. And BTW, no article about the Willamette Valley is complete without a mention of hops (Willamette hops are mentioned in the Hops article). Katr67 03:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow! This is a hard subject to research. 99% of the articles relate to a comparison of soil fertility among parts of small regions, for example Arkansas or Uganda. Here is one that approaches the right sort of information, but it's only for the U.S. and it regards each state as a single unit:

• Dr. P. E. Fixen, Sr. VP (May 2006). "The Fertility of North American Soils" (PDF). Potash & Phosphate Institute of Canada. Retrieved 2006-09-05.

This is a grossly simplified world survey which, for example, treats the U.S. as a single unit:

• "Soil Resource Condition" (PDF). World Resource Institute. 2001-01-12. Retrieved 2006-09-05.

I read many articles hoping to find clues of what or how to look for the right information. It seems to be a politically charged topic. Some groups are saying strong government measures must be taken to improve soil. Others are saying "here are our accomplishments." Neither camp would seem to be a source of objective rational data. Of the few articles which thoroughly evaluate soil fertility, they are typically soil science thesis work for a particular plot of land in farm country, often experiments with fertilizers. — EncMstr 21:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

According to the Missoula Floods article, the valley's fertility results from the lake sediments dragged across the continent by the series of floods 13,000 to 15,000 years ago. Who knew! -Pete 21:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I see that's already mentioned here…never mind… -Pete 21:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The "fountains of the deep" biblical reference should be excised from this article. The Missoula floods noted above are more generally accepted as the basis for the topography.

Good catch, Macadam...I reverted those recent edits, and provided a citation for the Missoula Floods explanation. By the way, if you put "-~~~~ at the end of your comments, it wil automatically fill in your name and the date of your comment. -Pete 19:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Photo request

I moved the {{reqphoto}} tag to the top. What kind of photos would you like to see? There are lots of photos of various locations around the valley that could be added to the article. And be sure to check out what's available in commons. Katr67 20:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It's sort of a puzzle to me. I"ve got a camera, but how to take a photo of the "Willamette Valley" puzzles me. In one sense it is defined by the Willamette Falls, as the hard rock barrier at Oregon City accounts for the ground being flat (almost) above that, as it can erode no lower. It's also a valley of many things, but taking a photo of a subdivision over the fence from a wheatfield hardly does it justice either.

Sometimes transportation contrasts can capture an area, and I am wondering about a photo of a traffic jam in Wilsonville, paired with perhaps the Wheatland Ferry, or maybe the blockhouse at DaytonRvannatta 03:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, good question. Do you have a helicopter too, by chance? ;) Seriously, though -- my opinion is that articles like this should have several photos, to capture various aspects of the area. So I wouldn't worry about getting any one "definitive" shot. I agree that Willamette Falls is a good one; some farm land would be good, too. Oktoberfest at Mount Angel, maybe..? -Pete 07:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a beer drinker so Oktoberfest is not one I'm likely to take. If you are looking at the valley from a historical perspective, its the place that people walked all the way from east of the Mississippi River to get to, and a photo depicting why they did this would be constructive--- and that would be of some nice rolling hills farm land with a few houses. I'll be heading east of route 22 out of Salem Wednesday, and maybe I can find an outlook that will support a photo---unfortunately, I'll be driving a truck so I'll also need an outlook where there is a place to stop a truck...

As for Mt. Angel, I would think it would prefer to be known for its Abbey instead of its beer bust. Much more of the valley has been used for growing hops to make beer than it has for drinking the stuff. Hops have been a traditional and successful crop in the valley for a century. I know the wine and cheese crowd like to slither in to Wiki ahd have you believe that the valley is all about making wine, but they are johnny come latelies who don't at least in my view capture the essence of the valley. If the valley is reduced to wine and cheese and the accompanying McMansions, its a pretty pathetic end to a valley that has defined what agriculture in Oregon was all about since 1840.

In a lot of ways I think the Oregon Garden defines the valley better from an agricultural standpoint than anything else I can think of. It may be a while before I get any photos and I'm not trying to stake out the 'rights' to produce the photos for this page, but if the photos appear to be promoting the vinters,(not something you have suggested) I'll throw up.Rvannatta 02:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

additional photo not added to page.

Photo near Bethel in northern Polk County.

Putting my camera where my mouth is I took a couple

photos in Plum Valley near Bethal from the base of the Eola hills looking west and North. (Actually I took more but these were the best 2) Then I couldn't decide which was the better of the two photos, so I put one on the main page and one here. I think they are probably too similar to be both displayed, but each has its own character......

After arguing with myself and losing I finally decided the one I put on the page was more typical than this one but I suspect reasonable folks could differ on that. Thoughts comments. One should be dumped I think.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rvannatta (talk • contribs) 03:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm somewhat reasonable and I think typical is good. I really like the one you put on the page. The fields with the hills in the background are what really say "Willamette Valley" to me (and not the mudhole I grew up in). Katr67 04:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed! Both nice pics, but I also like the one currently on the main page better, at least for the article.

Speaking of putting the camera to use, I got a few photos today that might work on the Sandy River (Oregon) and/or Lake Roslyn and/or Bull Run Hydroelectric Project pages, so keep an eye on them pages! Unfortunately, I couldn't find my way to the former Marmot Dam -- hopefully I can get back up there before the sediment washes away this winter and the Sandy gets restored to its original course.

OK, I'm all off-topic. Over and out. -Pete 04:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

well, I'll not swap them then. Not living in the Willamette Valley, I often think of it as being flat which reallly isn't the case. It's just flat in places. I-5 intentitonally found those places as it cuts through the French Prarie North of Salem and then rolls out though the only other flat place in the Valley between Albany and Eugene.

Interestingly, the McArthur has most of a page on the ancient community of 'Bethel' Polk County where these photos were taken. If I understand his page correctly the forground is 'Plum Valley'. A place that had great aspirations in 1950 but didn't make it.Rvannatta 14:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

(slighly off-topic) I've got Bethel, Oregon on my to-do list. My friend Twisted86 has uploaded one pic of the school--let me know if you upload any more from the area. I doubt the article would be long enough to support more than one or two photos, but we could make a commons page for them. (We'd have to transfer your pics to commons.) By-the-by, I use the free software GIMP for photo manipulation and I like it a lot. Katr67 16:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't take a picture of the school. Drove right past it when I took the other photos. I considered getting a photo of a classic grain elevator such as the one in Perrydale, or Amity, but then I passed that up as well.

the problem with rural living generally, is that it is a lot easier to make a list of things that folks used to be able to do and make a living at, than it is to make list of things that they can presently do and make a living at.

One by one, crops that used to be valuable or money makers have ceased being so, for one reason or another.Rvannatta 02:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Re-work/Expansion to GA

Here are my ideas for re-working the article and pushing towards GA status:

Geography

Where is it, how big/long.

Divisions

Tualatin Valley, Kings Valley, Yamhill Valley, eyc.

Climate

General overview, then specific charts for Portland, Salem, and Eugene.

Geology

How was it formed. What soils/rock formations are there.

Hydrology

Rivers, streams, lakes.

Human habitation

History from Natives to today.

At a minimum this needs corrected. It speaks of the valley being inhabited by native americans in the 19th century, but my history book suggests there were a total of 4000 native americans at the beginning of the 19th century and 90% of them were gone mostly to malaria by 1830 with the remainder packed off to Grande Ronde reservation by 1855. that is hardly consistent with occupation of the place during the 19th century.Rvannatta 02:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Cities

Overview with list of anything over 5,000 people (or some other number, just not enough room for every hamlet nestled in the valley).

Agriculture

Wheat and timber and hops to start, through shrubs, corn, and xmas trees today. Use see also for Oregon wine. Also specialty farms like alpacas[3] and bison.

Those are my thoughts, what are others?

Truck gardening (all the veggies' that mother tried to make you eat) are of a major impact in the valley history. 40 years ago the college kids worked their summers in the canneries. Most of the canneries have folded now, and with no cannery, so has the veggie growing but salem and woodburn were sites of multiple canneries.

Berries--- a really big deal. Wiki things Marion Berry is an Arkansas congressman and disambiguates him from Marion Barry the Washington DC mayor, but hasn never heard of 'Marion berry' the domesticated version of th Himalaya blackberry, though 'marionberry' will get you to 'Blackberry' where the Marion berry is mentioned.

and of course strawberries.[4] They were grown prolifically in the northern valley until all the packing houses disappeared.

And the fruit: Salem calls itself the 'Cherry City' for a reason. While orcharding has been on the retreat for the last 40 years beacause of difficult economic conditons there are still a lot of orchards remaining.

Nursery stock has probably been the growth segment of agriculture in the last 25 years.Rvannatta 06:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

More ideas

A discussion of Jory (soil), of which, believe it or not, there was some talk of elevating it to the status of Oregon State Soil. http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/soil/st_soils/or_soil.htm OK, apparently, it is official, but not yet "legislatively established". Katr67 16:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• The rise of Agritourism (corn mazes, pick your own pumpkin patches, and the like).
• Conservation efforts, such as those at French Prairie.

Katr67 16:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal for Mid-Valley (Oregon)

• Support merging and redirecting to Willamette Valley. Katr67 (talk) 18:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• Support merge of the Mid-Valley article to this article. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)