Talk:W. G. Grace

Size of article

The article is 120k and would grow considerably, perhaps to 250k, if substantial inputs per season are done. Partly as an experiment, I created W. G. Grace in the 1878 English cricket season recently and I suggest that is the way forward. Grace is too big a subject for a single article and even needs his own category! ----Jack | ^{talk page} 10:59, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

It might be illuminating to see how Wiki biographies of major historical or literary figures (eg Churchill or Shakespeare) have dealt with the problem. JH (talk page) 17:59, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Winston Churchill has been tagged as over 100k and has its own category which contains numerous other biographical pieces. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 18:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Rating

As the article is subject to extensive restructure via the creation of multiple sub-articles, I've reduced the rating to start until it adequately meets criteria 1 and 5. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 12:08, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed name change / spacing of initials

Should there not always be a space between his initals, as in W._G._Grace? Both this and the unspaced W.G._Grace appear randomly throughout the article. In keeping with List of literary initials (maybe there is some WP:-type rule to invoke?), I propose a name change to W._G._Grace (without the underscores, obviously) wherever it occurs. >MinorProphet (talk) 17:41, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I think I've done them all. It applied to E. M. Grace also. Jack | ^{talk page} 13:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

The brackets in the opening section

Quite simply what are the brackets in the opening section for? ILikeCycling (talk) 22:27, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

@ILikeCycling: Not entirely sure which ones you mean. On the top line, they are his dates of birth and death. I'm not sure if brackets are strictly WP:MOS for these dates but most editors seem to use them. Other brackets in the intro are to denote MCC and USEE as common abbreviations for two of the teams he often represented. Hope that helps but please let me know if not. Thanks very much. Jack | ^{talk page} 14:04, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I was referring to the brackets in the career statistics. ILikeCycling (talk) 18:01, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah, those! Gulp! Long story, I'm afraid. Basically, there are two conflicting versions of WG's career statistics because he played the majority of his career before first-class cricket was officially defined ahead of the 1895 season. Some chroniclers have included certain of his matches as "first-class" (unofficial) and others disagree about the status of those matches. If you look at Variations in published cricket statistics, it tries to explain it all. There is a bit about it in the Grace article's footnote which explains what the figures in parentheses are.

Basically, what are called WG's "traditional" first-class figures, which were first published in Wisden 1916 with his obituary, are given first outside the brackets and the "amended" figures published by CricketArchive are in the brackets. Generally, the "traditional" figures are accepted.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you think of anything else to ask. All the best. Jack | ^{talk page} 19:38, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

If the traditional numbers are the most widely accepted, wouldn't it be best to move the others inside the note entirely? The way it's presented now is confusing, especially since most probably won't read the note. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 12:10, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

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WW1

I heard that his death was brought on by the news of the death of his favourite nephew in the trenches. No sign of this here. Any updates? Valetude (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

I'd not heard of this. We'd need a reputable source before we could put it in. JH (talk page) 09:07, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Use of the Opinion tag

I hadn't intended to imply that the whole sentence was a quotation. The placing of the Opinion tag at the end of the sentence had led me to assume that the tag applied to the quotation at the end of the sentence rather than to the unquoted part preceding it. It seems to me that the unquoted part directly relies on the two preceding paragraphs - themselves well-referenced - on Grace's "shamateurism", and hence needs no further citation. JH (talk page) 08:39, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jhall1: Should it be put in a quote block? --Greatder (talk) 02:53, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Greatder: Given how short the quote is, I wouldn't have thought so, but I don't really know what the guidelines on that are. JH (talk page) 07:08, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Jhall1: Even if the preceding part is well referenced, it would still be violating WP:NOR, I think quote is the best way to present it. --Greatder (talk) 09:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't really see that Whatever criticisms may be made of Grace for making money for himself out of cricket involves OR, since it's clear from the preceding paras that some at the time were unhappy about it. However I'd be happy to replace the words in dispute with some other lead-in to the quote, such as Regardless of the above, - where "the above" clearly refers to the two preceding paragraphs. JH (talk page) 17:25, 9 September 2021 (UTC)