Talk:Vena Sera

Umm...Upheld Against The Court System is not the title of the album, any way to change this?

Took care of it. :) --Shaun77 15:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The new single is already out on the official website, myspace, and some radio stations have played it as well. --128.123.85.194 02:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Vena Sera Cover Art.jpg

Image:Vena Sera Cover Art.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:18, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Songwriting credits

I know that Allmusic credits Dean Bernardini as a writer of some of the songs. However, I can find no record at BMI or ASCAP of him as a composer. None of the songs I have checked list him as a songwriter at ASCAP/BMI. I can only conclude that Allmusic is incorrect in this instance. Do you have any further evidence that he composed any of the songs? I also note that in every instance so far, the only writers were Sam & Pete, even though WP sometimes only lists one of them. What a mess! --Richhoncho (talk) 15:05, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Only the liner notes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

In which case I'd lay a large amount of cash that Dean Bernardini did not write any of the songs. Allmusic has obviously taken their information from primarysources. As it's neither of our jobs to establish facts, but to report what is seen, how about making a note in the article describing the discrepancy? --Richhoncho (talk) 15:44, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

But liner notes as equally accurate as ASCAP and BMI. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Liner notes are part of the marketing, written by the record company with (some?) consent of the artist. Whereas ASCAP/BMI is telling us where they are sending the songwriter performance money. If I was Dean and had contributed to the writing of the song I'd be really pissed off now because I have been robbed! Is there a court case I have not heard about? Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 15:53, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry. You're wrong. There was a discussion about this at the album project page and it was shown that copyright companies are often incorrect as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums#Print liner notes as sources. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:43, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

You will note I was part of that discussion and I agreed that for something in 1930 was incorrect. I am not arguing which is correct here - I am saying that both sources should be reported because there is a discrepancy. --Richhoncho (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

@Walter Görlitz:. Actually Allmusic lists the writer credits as "Chevelle / Pete Loeffler / Peter Loeffler" There is no mention of Sam or Dean, but for some reason mentions Pete and Peter, which is not what the article says. It is also incorrect because Pete/Peter is a member of Chevelle, so therefore is listed THREE times. Hmm. This is an accurate source? I am now going to give you the lecture that "Chevelle" is a marketing name as such is not capable of playing guitar or writing a song. Did Chevelle play bass on their records, no, their bass player did. Did Chevelle write a song? No, certain people wrote the songs who were also members of the group marketed collectively as "Chevelle". Finally, Allmusic is a fan-facing site, whereas, the PROs are industry-facing. So all in all, both are capable of mistakes, but, unless things have changed (and I could refer back to a wiki editor who is recently published), the PRO entries are completed song by song, with information supplied either by the music publisher or the songwriter(s) themselves and ensures the payments are made to the right bank account and although not public, what %age split between publisher and writers. If any of the PROs were as wrong as you suggest they would be out of business very quickly, accuracy goes to the heart of their business model.
I have also checked one song, Well Enough Alone at Harry Fox Agency, another music business site, and again, only Sam and Pete listed as songwriters. So a separate and different registration process again omits Dean.
Please note I am asking for the very first para of WP:V to be adhered to, by all means leave the Allmusic quote in, but add the BMI/HFA entry details, too. It is our job as editors to avoid WP:OR and to include one source and not the other is most certainly OR. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

(Responding to ping): The CD shows: "All lyrics by Peter Loeffler All music by Chevelle" with two publishing companies (both BMI) (from the actual image, not the listing info). BMI lists the songwriters for all the tracks as "Loeffler Peter" and "Loeffler Samuel". For the couple I checked, Songfile shows the same[1][2]. Bernardini's name doesn't come up anywhere as a writer and doesn't appear on subsequent releases either. My experience has been that AllMusic isn't very reliable for songwriters, release dates, etc. Without more RS, it would be best to stick with only what's mentioned: "Lyrics: Peter Loeffler, Music: Chevelle (BMI songwriter listing: Peter Loeffler, Samuel Loeffler)." —Ojorojo (talk) 14:26, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Perfect. The sources have spoken. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:05, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

That's fine by me, too. --Richhoncho (talk) 17:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)