Talk:Ultimate Comics: Avengers/Archive 1

Correct title

The title was changed by Nightscream to Ultimate Avengers as "indicated in both ads (See Fantastic Four #569) and in the cited sources". However, the cites are both the original announcements (which was before Marvel announced the rebranding to "Ultimate Comics") and everything on the Marvel website (and Millar's own website) still refers to it as Ultimate Comics: Avengers. Also, recent announcements such as the wraparound cover (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22325) still use the Ultimate Comics: Avengers title. I admit I haven't seen the ad in FF #569, however in my opinion, I'd leave it as the title still shown on in the Marvel solicitations (http://marvel.com/comics/Ultimate_Marvel) until we know more. Planewalker Dave (talk) 22:42, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've now managed to dig up the advert from FF (as it was also in another comic I had). Looks like they are writing Ultimate <Foo> on the covers but still officially calling them Ultimate Comics <Foo>, as demonstrated in Marvel's holofoil article (http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8702.Marvel_Introduces_Groundbreaking_Foilogram_Cover). So there is certainly some debate there, but I'm still tempted to stick with the name from the solicitations. Planewalker Dave (talk) 23:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about my ignorance of the prior ads (what the heck is "foo", btw?), but yeah, there does seem to be some inconsistency. If I had to explain it, I'd suggest that while all three sources are good ones (and Marvel and Millar are very close in level of reliability) Marvel is the most accurate source about the titles of their own books, rather than CBR (news sources sometimes get things wrong, and can indeed have outdated info, or Millar, who may not have updated his website. However, I went to his site, and could not find any mention of the series at all, under either name. (Can you provide a link, Dave?). Since there's no email that I could find on the site, I'll email Jeph Loeb, since Millar and Jeph are working closely together on the line.

From what I gather from the evidence (and I could be wrong here) I think "Ultimate Comics" is simply the brand name of the line, and not the name of the actual books. This may be corroborated by the fact that that while the Marvel page you linked to, the images of the covers of the books on that same page here and here, for example, do not give the titles as "Ultimate Comics" but as "Ultimate Avengers" and "Ultimate Spider-Man". But again, I could be wrong. We can wait and see until further info (or the books themselves) come out. Nightscream (talk) 23:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, Jeph got back to me, saying that he is the wrong person to ask, as that isn't his book, commenting, "What it's called by the time it ships? we'll see!". Nightscream (talk) 00:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that, in the published comics, every comic has been referred to Ultimate Avengers on both the cover and on the copyright page. In fact, none of the new "Ultimate Comics" line has been published as Ultimate Comics. They have been published as: Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Avengers, Ultimate New Ultimates, Ultimate X, and Ultimate Enemy. I'd like to propose Moving the articles based on these titles to their proper, published titles.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 03:24, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I definitely oppose moving all the Ultimate Comics titles. First off, the cover design of a comic should never be taken as its title. By that logic, we would have comics with names like like "Final Superman Beyond 3D Crisis" or "Front Line A Marvel Comics Event Civil War. I can certainly see what you mean about the published titles, as that's usually what to go by, but those are not what they are referred to as in either solicitations or in the books themselves. This way also makes it much more clear what the subject of the article is. Friginator (talk) 03:53, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not just referring to the covers, I'm also referring to the internal published title. For example, on the most recent issue (#5) of the comic referred to in this article has three mentions of Ultimate Avengers (two on the first page and one on the final page in the copyright) and not a single reference to it being called Ultimate Comics: Avengers. The Ultimate Comics line appears to be an advertising title, not the published title.--Scorp Stanton (talk) 05:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

However, the Marvel website keeps referring to it as Ultimate Comics, even in new solicitations (e.g., [1]). Similarly, new TPBs are being branded as Ultimate Comics Blah. Interestingly, even stuff that wasn't originally published under that title e.g., Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk.

Looking through articles and interviews with Marvel staff it looks as though the correct name is Ultimate Comics Blah but for ease of referring to them they call them Ultimate Blah e.g., [2], where they alternate between the two names. Planewalker Dave (talk) 10:57, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I think the problem is that Marvel themselves can't agree on the names of the new comics. Interestingly, most interviews and advertisements refer to Ultimate X rather than Ultimate Comics: X. It's almost like Marvel decided to give everything the name Ultimate Comics, but didn't tell anyone involved on it. --Scorp Stanton (talk) 04:23, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Anyone else want to weigh in on this? It doesn't seem like anything's been decided yet. --Scorp Stanton (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Ultimate Avengers II and So On

Much like what has been done with The Ultimates and Ultimates 2 and 3, i think that each Ultimate Comics: Avengers should be treated as a six issue mini-series. This is because the next story will restart numbering again and will be called Ultimate Comics: Avengers 2. 77.99.40.67 (talk) 18:12, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence to back that prediction up? And even if that is Marvel's actual plan, we still need to abide by WP:CRYSTAL. According to Marvel's solicitations (here and here) you think that there should be a separate article? It's just another story arc with no definite separation in-between. Not to mention that what Marvel solicits and what is actually released doesn't always match up (see above). The first 3 Ultimate series were definitely separate, but this looks more like The Umbrella Academy or Runaways. Friginator (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC)