Talk:Tsarevets (fortress)

Royal and patriarchal palace?

Anon, it's good you watch the History Channel every day, but that doesn't mean you're right at all. You may see our own palace article if you'd like more info, but it's more than clear palaces weren't a Renaissance invention. If you're really eager to prove me and the world wrong, then find and cite a reliable source (or better, several reliable sources). You're the one who has to support his changes with evidence, not me. Todor→Bozhinov 18:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

My friend I might not know a lot, but I defiantly know history. This is my life. You are probably thinking that I am someone who have nothing better to do and just go and changes articles. Go and see what articles you can find under "Category:Castles in Bulgaria" and "Category:Palaces in Bulgaria". Under "Category:Castles in Bulgaria" you will find Asenova krepost, Baba Vida, Belogradchik Fortress, Cherven (fortress), Storgosia and Tsarevets. All of them Meddival Castles build during the Middle Ages. This is where "Tsarevets" belongs. Under "Category:Palaces in Bulgaria" you will find Balchik Palace, Banya Palace, Euxinograd, Tsarska Bistritsa and Vrana Palace. All of them are modern Palaces build during the XIX and XX Century. They have nothing to do with the Medieval Tsarevets. I just proved my point using Wikipedia.

Did you :) Well, actually I've written and categorized most of the articles you've listed above. Yes, Tsarevets was a fortified castle, but it included palaces and that's what all popular web sources say: e.g. [1], [2], [3] (printed), [4]. Naturally, there is a great difference between the modern palaces and those in Tsarevets, but still, they are all palaces.

And now, I'd suggest that, instead of trying to prove me wrong by using what I've written, you either start looking for reliable sources to base your edits on or leave things as they are (which I'd recommend, because what you say is totally wrong). Regards, Todor→Bozhinov 10:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I am not going to waist time arguing here. After all this is a place where everyone can post, even whithout any idea of what they are talking about. Case and point - you. Tsarevets Hill had a Royal Castle inside its walls. A Medieval Royal Castle where Tsar's lived and Knight met. Tsarevets was not a Palace. Tsarevets is a Hill surrounded with a Wall. Inside this wall there was a Castle. You can call it a Palace, however, it does not make it one. It is refered to it as a Palace because it was an official Royal Residence and it was richly decurated and that is it. With its walls and towers this was not a Palace. I know that you are not going to accept it and that is ok. I do not know how much you know history and architecture. However, I am confident enough to say I know more then the regular people who come here. I have no social life, believe me, history is my life. Tell me how many times have you discussed history with Bozhidar Dimitrov at Todor Zhivkov's office at The National Historical Museum where NATO Foreign Ministers met - I already did this, on my trip to Bulgaria. That's all I have to say. Keep it the way you want it. I am only feeling sorry for the people who do not know history and fallow what this article is offering.

To begin with, please refrain from personal attacks. If you talk about knights when discussing medieval Bulgarian history, then that speaks enough of your knowledge. There were no knights here, this is a Western European concept. Anyway, you've gone a whole lot off topic. In a nutshell, Tsarevets is a fortress on an eponymous hill, it's not just a hill surrounded with a wall but a whole system of fortifications. I don't see how having walls and towers makes a palace a castle (actually, I can't imagine a building without walls, and towers are perfectly OK as a decoration). Also, the two palaces are today in ruins, so I doubt you've seen them to know how they looked like.

As I said twice already, please provide reliable sources and I'll accept removing the reference to palaces. As simple as that. Todor→Bozhinov 12:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep the reference to palaces there. I removed it to make it more accurate. If you want it there so bad keep it. Knight was not only in Western Europe. Do not tell me you forgot about the Latin Empire. There were constantly Knight in Bulgaria as an ambassadors. The highest Knight to live in Tsarevets was Baldwin I of Constantinople. And lets not forget that Kaloyans daughter Maria was married to Henry of Flanders. The Knight visited Bulgaria to arrange a marriage. And if you go back and read my post you will see that I only said that Knights met there. I also visited Tsarevets in 2006. This was the first and only time I was there. I hope I will go again. I have an excellent idea how it looks today. In addition I have see architectural reconstructions. The Royal Castle in Tsarevets was something like the Bulgarian version of Windsor Castle only that it was build on a Hill. The Castle at Tsarevets had Saint Petka Church, while Windsor Castle had St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle. Both were used for Royal burials. Tsarevets itself was a city. Tsarevets had Churches and Castles. It was a city within a city. Tsarevets was the Bulgarian version of Kremlin. The Bulgarian Tsar's lived in Tsarevets, while the Russian Tsar's lived in Kremlin.

No, you wrote "where Tsar's lived and Knight met", which means knight met there with each other, not with the tsar :) So it's your fault as it seems. I'll disregard the inappropriate comparisons and I'll ask you to provide references again. I don't wan't "palaces" so bad, but you won't remove it unless you have sources. Todor→Bozhinov 10:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Fortress?

Forgive me if I am mistaking, but this seems to be no fortress to me. AFAIK a fortress is a building for military purposes and inhabitants only. A fortified building or complex of buildings like this one, which provides housings for nobility is not a fortress but a castle. Similar things, but not the same. And from the looks of it, it is very hard to distinguish between them, if not impossible. It's merely the usage that differs. Kennin (talk) 11:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd call it a fortified city or a citadel. Preslav (talk) 13:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

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