Talk:Tony Judt

Daily anonymous IP POV edits to Israel section

A (probably vain) effort to forestall the near-daily anonymous POV interpolations, which are mostly variations on the following (italicized, bolded text denotes common POV interpolations):

• According speculation described in the Washington Post, the ADL and and AJC had complained to Polish consul Krzysztof Kasprzyk that Judt was "too critical of Israel and American Jewry...":What the article says is,

'Two major American Jewish organizations helped block a prominent New York University historian from speaking at the Polish consulate here last week, saying the academic was too critical of Israel and American Jewry.'

Without grounds to question the accuracy of the report, calling it speculation is POV. "According to the Washington Post" will suffice. Moreover, the second half of the sentence -- "though both organizations deny asking that the talk be cancelled, ADL National Chairman Abraham Foxman calling Judt's claims of interference 'wild conspiracy theories'" -- provides adequate balance.

• 'Judt ... called the implications of the cancellation "serious and frightening" but the Polish consulate asserted that it was not subject to the American first amendment.'

Can anyone tell me in what context or forum -- press release, interview, press conference? -- the Polish consulate made this assertion, and in what publication it was reported? I have seen no statement to this effect in any news report. It seems to me unlikely that the consulate would make any such statement, because the cancellation of a talk by a private party does not touch on any issue related to the First Amendment. No one connected with the affair has, in any published report I have seen, made any claim that anyone's First Amendment rights were being abridged, presumably because they knew the issue was not relevant.

• 'Judt remarked that "only in America -- not in Israel -- is this a problem," thus speaking as if the Polish consulate were on American rather than Polish soil.'

I presume this is an attempt to pose the question questio quid juris, but I think the poster has misunderstood the issue. I don't know whether a consulate is, like an embassy, considered foreign territory, but it wouldn't make any difference even if it were: there's no question of which law prevails, because there's no issue of law involved. The "problem" Judt is referring to is an alleged campaign by those who consider themselves 'pro-Israel' to stifle debate on controversial Israeli policies. No one has claimed cancelling the talk violated any law -- American, Polish, divine or otherwise.

• 'Judt went on to object to those who discourage foreign governments from sponsoring his talks'

This is a simple inaccuracy: the "Polish government" did not "sponsor" the talk: the Polish consulate in New York rented or provided a conference room to a private organization, Network 20/20, in which to hold the talk, and then withdrew their offer.

I presume these edits are being made by the same user. Coming out of the shadows by getting a user account and then discussing your concerns in an open forum would be better than spending time on edits that get reverted ten minutes later.

--Rrburke 12:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If there are many attempts in a short period of time just request semi-page protection to prevent editing from IP users. This will force the user to get an account or stop. --Deodar 16:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

NYT Magazine article on Tony Judt and Abe Foxman

Could be integrated into the article as it covers the subject at hand:

• Does Abe Foxman Have an Anti-Anti-Semite Problem?, New York Times, January 14 2006.

--70.48.240.99 18:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Paragraph starting with "Highly respected in the United States.." would benefit from being rewritten

The NY Times quote is interesting but does not fit in with the flow of the text. Furthermore, the initial statement is not substantiated. I removed the paragraph that followed which seemed to argue against Judt's point of view. A reference to an article/s outlining an alternative point of view or to a discussion on that topic would seem to be more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darren Kavanagh (talk • contribs) 20:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Death section

Large chunks of the article are taken directly from copyrighted sources, with no evident permission. Quotation marks are not enough. I will include Wikipedia official guideline: "Significant chunks of copyright material must not appear anywhere on Wikipedia, including user pages. Any small extracts on your user pages for temporary drafting purposes should be clearly marked with quotation marks and have the source attributed."Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:37, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a link for that guideline? I agree that the section is problematic, but a lot hinges on what counts as a "significant chunk". I can't believe that Wikipedia guidelines prevent the quotation of copyrighted sources - scholars do this all the time and are never accused of copyright violations (or plagiarism, as long as they reference properly). Cordless Larry (talk) 21:12, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Composers/Copyright_guidelines Mwinog2777 (talk) 01:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's from a WikiProject on music composers. I've had a look and the relevant policy is as follows:

Brief quotations of copyrighted text may be used to illustrate a point, establish context, or attribute a point of view or idea. Copyrighted text that is used verbatim must be attributed with quotation marks or other standard notation, such as block quotes. Any alterations must be clearly marked, i.e. [brackets] for added text, an ellipsis (...) for removed text, and emphasis noted after the quotation as "(emphasis added)" or "(emphasis in the original)". Extensive quotation of copyrighted text is prohibited.

Again, the definition of extensive is the key question. I would think that so long as the quotes used don't exceed, say, 10 per cent of the length of the source, we're OK. I think the bigger issue here is that there is undue weight on that one quote in the paragraph concerned. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

The last paragraph is largely 2 qoutes. If this isn't extensive quotation", I don't know is.Mwinog2777 (talk)

For copyright purposes, I think "extensive" needs to be judged in relation to the length of the source, not the paragraph the quote is part of here. But for style purposes and perhaps per WP:UNDUE, the latter matters. I'm going to trim that paragraph now. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

For future reference on quoting from copyrighted sources, WP:QUOTE is useful. It states:

• The copied material should not comprise a substantial portion of the work being quoted, and a longer quotation should not be used where a shorter quotation would express the same information. What constitutes a substantial portion depends on many factors, such as the length of the original work and how central the quoted text is to that work. In one extreme case, Harper & Row v. Nation Enterprises, 400 quoted words from a 500-page book were ruled to be infringement. Editors are advised to exercise good judgment and to remain mindful of the fact that while brief excerpts are permitted by policy, extensive quotations are forbidden.
• The quotation must be useful and aid understanding of the subject; irrelevant quotations should be moved to the appropriate wikiquote entr(y)(ies).
• All quotations must be attributed to their source.

Hopefully that helps. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:48, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Yiddish Writer Category Deleted

No eveidence that he was a Yiddish writer; I deleted that category from his list. May he rest in peace, and be known as a great historian, let us not muddy up his legacy.Mwinog2777 (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Charlie Rose interview

he was interviewed 8 days before his death by Charlie Rose, aired tonight. It will be online at charlierose.com in a few days. He starts out saying he has been "1. teacher, 2. writer, 3 historian, 4th commentator," writing from my fallible memory. Mulp (talk) 04:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

This point about Judt's self description is also made in the Prospect Magazine interview

"I see myself as first and above all a teacher of history; next a writer of European history; next a commentator on European affairs; next a public intellectual voice within the American Left; and only then an occasional, opportunistic participant in the pained American discussion of the Jewish matter…"Moloch09 (talk) 16:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Recent unreferenced additions

Editors with this article on their watchlists may have noticed these and other recent unsourced additions to the article. I previously left a friendly note on the editor's talk page to make them aware of the need for citations. It now appears that they are in fact Tony Judt's sister (see here). I've asked whether the information added has been published anywhere, so that we can retain it but with references to reliable sources. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

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Bibliography

I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates and tables for short stories, poems and/or book reviews. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 11:55, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Kibbutz Machanaim??

Judt supposedly worked on Kibbutz Machanaim, but there is no such thing, nor a kibbutz Machanayim.

Here he writes " worked full time at Machanayim, a collective farm in the Upper Galilee."

Could it be kibbutz Mahanayim? --Huldra (talk) 20:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)