Talk:Tongue splitting

Initial posts

It is not everywhere allowed - does this mean it's illegal? Also, do people still slit mynah birds' tongues to make them able to talk? RickK 01:20 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, wasn't the punishment for a Byzantine to have his nose sliced off, making him ineligible to rule. Or was it both nose slicing and tongue splitting?

Nose slicing was a punishment too, along with tongue-splitting and blinding. I forgot about that one :) Adam Bishop 13:44 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Terminology

The proper term for this procedure is tongue bifurcation; moving the article accordingly. I'll also add "tongue splitting" to the definition as a synonym. — Ringbang 17:33, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Modern Tongue Bifurcation

Somebody could check this and add to the article, or just make corrections. (Spellchecked and grammar corrected by Tinga1911)

History (Readysetglow (talk) 04:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC))

In July 1997 (maybe on July 1996; this is little bit unclear) an Italian man had his tongue split. His dentist did the split using a scalpel and silver nitrate cauterization.

Dustin Allor, a 19 year old bodypierer in the USA split her tongue in 1996 herself. Not having any reference of this being done before, she came up with the tie-off or fishing line method. She tied fishing line through her existing large gauge tongue piercing to the tip of her tongue. When the fishing line cinched through the tissue and became loose it was cut out and a new, tight fishing line was applied. This allowed her tongue to heal as it was being split, negating the need for stitches or cauterization to control bleeding as there was no blood. She was featured in Fakir Musafar’s Body Play Magazine, Issue #16 in 1997 This method can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. It is painful like any other method, but is controlled by the person himself and intensity varies depending on the person’s tolerance for discomfort.

Erik Sprague aka. The Lizardman had his tongue split on July 18, 1997 by an oral surgeon (Dr. Lawrence Busino) using an argon laser. A new deeper split was done on October 3, 1997. This was one of the first (he thinks he was third) modern tongue bifurcations and the first one done using a laser.

Laws

Most laws don't prohibit doing a tongue split to yourself, but there are laws that could apply to a practioner doing it to somebody else, like charges of dispensing medication without a license. Also most surgeons refuse to do tongue splitting and those willing to do it will charge a lot. These are the main reasons why so many of those wanting their tongue splitted are doing it by themselves.

In USA there are many states that don't prohibit practioners (body piercers and others non-doctors) doing tongue splitting, but there are laws that prohibit using anesthetic, a local anesthetic is not an option anywhere including USA, Canada, and all other Western countries. Tongue splitting as all surgical modifications is on the grey area, so a practioner could face charges from the procedur itself or from the use of anesthetics. Also in France and Italy it's stated that tongue splitting is illegal, so there are propably no practioners willing to do that. In United Kingdom there are laws that don't prohibit tongue splitting, but those laws could be used to charge a practioner doing tongue splitting, so the few practioners doing splitting in the UK don't advertise it. In Finland you can easily find a few practioners doing tongue splitting, because there isn't laws to charge practioners, but still there are issues, like using anesthetics so none of the practioners is willing to pull attention towards them.

Methods

The best way of doing/getting tongue bifurcation is by oral surgeon using either a laser or a scalpel, but usually that isn't an option, mostly because oral surgeons refuse to do tongue bifurcations or they charge too much for it. The next safest way is getting a well know practioner doing it. It could be hard to find either one or just too expensive so many decide to do it by themselves. This is really dangerous, but if one gets him/herself well educated on the subject, then he/she should perform very well. The most dangerous part isn't the procedure itself, it's the complications like massive bloodloss if you happen to cut one of the major blood vessels (usually the one on the middle).

In the early days, most of those doing it by themselves were using Dustin's method, a tie-off, and then cut the last tiny bit using a scalpel, a razor, a heated knife etc. This is the most safest way performed by an individual with a little knowledge of the anatomy of a human tongue. Also this method doesn't generate massive bloodloss so no sutures nor cautery is needed. The problem in tie-off is the intensive pain and the slow process, it could take two months to split one's tongue.

Nowadays many individuals are using just a scalpel and cutting their tongue from the tip to the existing large gauge tongue piercing, the piercing is there to prevent the regrowth. The minimum size for the piercing is 3.2mm (8 gauge), but many are using 4.0mm to 8.0mm piercings, allthough this doesn't prevent the regrowth fully. Mostly there isn't any complications as long as the tongue is splitted with one clean cut using a sharp unused surcigal scalpel, the bloodvessels should move out of the way, but it's not sure and not adviced to even try.

Cautery is one possibility also. It's mostly used to close the bloodvessels that possibly get cut during the scalpelling and prevent bloodloss, this can be done with any cautery pen or just with heated metal plates. A Thermal Cautery Unit is also an option but it requires a medical cautery pen or some other cautery pen which can reach heating degrees up to a thousand degrees or higher. Not to mention these tools are very expensive and not so common.

Suturing is used for closing the wounds in the each half, mostly by doctors using either a scalpel or a laser. When using a scalpel it's important to prevent the massive loss of blood. Also some underground practioners may use sutures, but it's not easy and wrongly done it will just make the healing time longer and more painful, also there could be some serious consequences, so most practioners just use cauterising if necessary. Also it's said that suturing makes more of a rounder shape and a natural look, but not a forked tongue, more like two individual tongues, but there are two opinions about this and many have agreed that the shape is mostly related to the individual's anatomy, not suturing.

sources/links
BMEzine Tongue Split faq[1]
Danny's Tongue Split Experiments[2]
An article in Youngmodders[3]
The Lizardman's Tongue Split Experiments[4]
The Modern History of Tongue Splitting[5]

I'll try to check and correct this information and the bad english (note: allready corrected and spellchecked by Tinga1911) I'm writing as soon as I have enough time (maybe tomorrow, maybe the next weekend...). I'll also try to get few pics licensed under the GPL and add more links. But if someone reads this draft you could at least comment it so I can expand it to a real article.

--Jotu 01:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Photos

Tongue bifurcation is not a common procedure and so an illustration would be helpful. Either a photo or a drawing, perhaps. (I know there's a template for these requests, but I can't find it). Thanks, -Willmcw 22:34, September 12, 2005 (UTC) Part of the pictures taken during the proceure

/Volumes/PUBLIC/My Pictures/Tattoo/Tongue/1.JPG

/Volumes/PUBLIC/My Pictures/Tattoo/Tongue/7.JPG

/Volumes/PUBLIC/My Pictures/Tattoo/Tongue/8.JPG

/Volumes/PUBLIC/My Pictures/Tattoo/Tongue/9.JPG

The results with minimal regrowth

/Volumes/PUBLIC/My Pictures/Tattoo/Tongue/close up 5.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.210.137.200 (talk • contribs)

Sources

"Most doctors will say that it affects speech, but in practice, very little (usually no) difference in speech occurs."

What evidence do you have indicating that "most" doctors "will" say this. How do you know what most doctors will say, did you ask them all or conduct a survey? I find it hard to believe that most M.D. s in the world are ignorant to the truth, assuming it is true that it does not affect speech (another unsourced claim), so please cite a source or delete the claim.

You also claim that "most" say it emhances kissing. Again, did you ask everyone or conduct a survey? Please cite the source or delete the claim.

You also claim that many states ban the practice. Could you tell us which ones so that we can verify the claim? Thank You.

Another missing source

"It was also used as a punishment in the Byzantine Empire. When an emperor was overthrown (as happened frequently), he often had his tongue split, according to the tradition that such a mutilation made an emperor ineligible to rule again. (Alternate punishments were slicing off the nose, or blinding.)"

Please cite a source for this claim or delete, thank you.

I don't know about the tongue splitting, but examples of both blinding and nose cutting exist. Some of the deposed emperors around the first crusades arrived on the Princes' Islands in a rather miserable condition. --Valentinian 10:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Purpose?

I don't know the answer myself, but does anyone know why people want to have their tongues split? does it just look cool, or does it give them any new abilities? Bobzooka (talk) 06:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture.

The Joker from the Batman comics has a bifurcated tongue. http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/likalaruku/the-joker/108-26938/batman_r/105-612352/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.77.255 (talk) 07:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

No talking and eating for two weeks afterwards?

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=2625

"It takes roughly one to two weeks before one can eat and talk, and about a month for "full" healing to take place. The procedure costs between $500 and $1,000 when performed by a medical practitioner, and between $100 and $500 when performed by a body piercer." --Ethics Daily

"Healing of the tongue takes approximately 1-2 weeks and during this time, the person will be unable to eat or even talk.[4]" -- Wikipedia

The above does not seem to accurately reflect the healing of a typical tongue split as far as eating and talking are concerned. When my tongue was split with a scalpel without suturing (a fairly common method), I had no difficulty eating the same day. My speech was a bit hard to understand for a few days, but it did not prevent me from being understood well enough to be heard. I know of no documented experiences of a tongue split where a person has been unable to eat any food for 1-2 weeks. Really, 2 weeks of not eating while healing an extreme mod? It makes no sense.

The use of the word "will" implies that almost all experience that side effect. The use of "may" implies merely possibility.

Hence, I've changed the line to read:

"Healing of the tongue takes approximately 1-2 weeks and during this time, the person may be unable to eat their normal diet or even talk clearly.[4]" -- Wikipedia Anametamystik (talk) 08:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Blood loss and the DSM

Since the tongue has an ample blood supply, mutilating the tongue, by whatever method, can hardly be said to have blood loss that is "almost non-esistent." But it stands to reason that a series of small cuts, instead of one major, potentially fatal one (if performed by someone who does not have full knowledge of the anatomical structure) will decrease the likelihood of major blood loss. So I've changed "almost non-existent" to "limited."

So far as a person voluntarily undergoing self-mutilation is concerned, this would seem to be an aspect of the DSM category "Non-Suicidal Self-Injury" or "Borderline Personality Disorder," but I don't have any knowledge in this area. — Objectivesea (talk) 22:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

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"When kissing", is likely avoiding pairing-related-relativisms from biology.

'pairing' broadly, in biology, is a re-occurring phenomenon all over the place in both the marco and micro , for both internal health and genetic/reproductive purposes & contingencies in almost all forms of life, and to avoiding tongue-splitting for obvious sexual/stimulative purposes is unnecessary and almost-offensive to the reader, if not also of a kind of rationalising of avoiding denying orthodoxies/dogma/stricture.

It would also be incorrect and avoidant to avoid specific non-medical aspects which necessarily-include at-least SOME's identity & statement based reasons, and pairing-related reasoning even if not of fully-consciously-stipulatable reasons could include INDIRECT-stimulation value, such as pairings-related ones - ex - pairing simulations of both sides of normally only one-sided parts of the body - earlobes, either side of the fingernail, genitalia, etc

---

Although these sexual purposes are perhaps embarrassing for some, they're a clearly-CONSISTENT part of people's reasonings - a similar level of detail would be appropriate for say ... sensual-massage, when it would come to SIMULTANEOUS-motion (of both hands) , or in cultural-phenomenon like nipple-swirlers (which have simultaneous/SYNCHRONOUS motion) (i.e. WHY are there simulteneous, on or from, both SIDES of the body, common aspects to the behaviour/phenomenon))

Such cannot be described within "kissing" - i am more inclined to have a nice fresh bowl of KRILL in response, thank you Ross Noble. 120.21.158.0 (talk) 12:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC)