Talk:Tier 3 (nightclub)

Tier 3 networks

Probably needs some mention of Tier 3 networks as an alternative meaning. No page for Tier 3s, but could point to Tier 2 network. - P₁h₃r₁e₃d₁₃ 22:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 18 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 22:59, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

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• Tier 3 → Tier 3 (nightclub)
• Tier 3 (disambiguation) → Tier 3

– No clear primary topic given the other 3 topics in the hatnote and Tier 3 Railway lines. Google and Images only return the coronavirus topic and Books doesn't appear to return anything for the nightclub. Views[[1]] show that the nightclub gets 179 but Data center got 17,150, the coronavirus topic got 2,845, the vehicle got 1,572 and Wheatbelt railway lines of Western Australia got 355. Although this might be recentism and there is no way to tell how many readers were looking for the other topics it still doesn't seem likely that this nightclub is primary. Note that Tier 1 and Tier 2 are also DAB pages. Other options for the target are Tier 3 (New York City) or simply Tier 3 (New York). Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:21, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support can't really claim to be Primary Topic now, if it ever was. Tier 3 (disambiguation). In ictu oculi (talk) 19:58, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

  Thankyou In ictu oculi, changed to multi-move. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:49, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. There is no other article on WP that could reasonably need to use the title. Station1 (talk) 07:33, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

@Station1: do you really believe that "There is no other article on WP that could reasonably need to use the title" is how titling works on Wikipedia? You have had WP:TITLE guidelines spelled out for you dozens of times in 100s of RMs. 09:13, 20 October 2020 (UTC) In ictu oculi (talk) 09:13, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

The coronavirus topic has enough content to make it enough of a search target at least for the reasonable future so I don't see this being valid as has been said to you numerous times. WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT does say that a section of an article can be primary. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:49, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Just because something can be a search target doesn't mean it is a search target. In this case "a section of an article" is nowhere near primary. The hard evidence shows that Tier 3 has been averaging 10 views per day both before and after coronavirus: see 2019-2020, 2019, 2020, April-Oct 2020. There has been no change whatsoever. It's simply a fact that virtually no one is landing on Tier 3 expecting to find an article about coronavirus. Station1 (talk) 20:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Well the views cited above show the base name gets around 7 views (and sometimes only 3 or 4) but yesterday (19th) had 18, the day before (18th) 33, the day before (17th) 14, the day before (16) 13 and the day before that (15) 14. Given most readers get where they want however we title its fairly likely readers are being led astray and that's ignoring all the other uses. The article was only created on the 13th and the regulations started on the 14th and expanded on the 17th and given that Greater Manchester is moving up to tier 3 on the 23rd its likely even more will want that even taking into account recentism. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:41, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Not sure how you're getting 7. I'm seeing 10. But anyway, individual days are meaningless; there were numerous days in 2019 with over 15 views. I did not realize, however, when I wrote my previous comment, that Tier 3 is a new thing in England related to coronavirus. That does make a difference. If the trend is up significantly over the next few weeks, there will be a case for a dab page. Otherwise, a hatnote should be enough. Station1 (talk) 23:13, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Well in the last 20 days we have 9, 4, 8, 4, 7, 8, 9, 6, 8, 7, 9, 8, 12, 9, 7, 14, 13, 14, 33, 18, 52[[2]]. If the only other use other than the nightclub was the coronavirus regulations I agree it would be recentism and a hatnote would be sufficient but as there are other uses as well, a search on Commons returns Lockheed Martin RQ-3 DarkStar as 2 of the 1st 3 results[3]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

And South Yorkshire will be joining tier 3 on the 24th. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Firstly, still no evidence of reading WP:TITLE.

Secondly, not listening: e.g. "It's simply a fact that virtually no one is landing on Tier 3 expecting to find an article about coronavirus" @Station1: this "fact" is simply not a fact, where does this fact come from? Allowing for your cookies in the US, what does the "tier 3 is" test produce for you in (a) vanilla Google, (b) Google News (c) GBooks. Test it. You can't just say stuff out of your head, you need to look at reality - the world as it exists outside the way we as editors have constructed article titles. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:13, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

That fact is a fact, or at least was a fact until the past few days. I linked to the evidence, which shows that pageviews for Tier 3 were remarkably steady for all of 2019 and 2020 until 3 or 4 days ago. No one was looking for anything regarding Covid under that title during that period. Crouch, Swale then pointed out that COVID-19 tier regulations in England is a new article and that in the last few days the number of people looking for Tier 3 Covid regulations has increased dramatically. That is a valid point, of which I was originally unaware. Most people landing on Tier 3 the past 2-4 days are almost certainly looking for the regulation. Is that enough to move this article, considering "recentism"? We all hope this will be of just passing interest and next year Covid regulations will be just a memory, but only time will tell. In the meantime, the Tier 3 Covid regulations definitely merit a direct link in the hatnote, which is just as useful to readers as a dab page, so I've added one. Station1 (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Applying the 10 year test I think in 10 years the regulations will have little importance but although the nightclub might be more viewed I wouldn't expect hugely, its not that plausible that the 3 sentence stub would be primary over the other uses on the DAB as well. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:23, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

For the record my results from England for that test are all virus for vanilla Google and News, for Books various things that don't appear to refer to any topics on the DAB, again nothing for the nightclub which is only 3 sentences and doesn't say when/why it closed etc. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support. It is not reasonable to assume the nightclub is the primary topic. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
• The nightclub had a capacity of 300 and closed in 1980[4] even is it existed for many years (say 20) and had 300 people on every night of 20 years it would have had 2,190,000 (just over 2 million) while 7.3 million people are subject to tier 3 restrictions[5] so it could be disputed that the nightclub has more long-term significance than the regulations. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:38, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.