Talk:This too shall pass

Original in Old Persian or Sanskrit?

I have seen the original in (usually not specified old/middle/modern) Persian or Sanskrit. Is there any reason, besides being an old language, for this? Where did it first appear in print? I would have expected that if was a common adage, in any culture, it would have been mentioned in multiple sources by scholars and pundits as it expresses a truism that I suspect appreciation of is not just modern.

What I noted on other sites, none of which I would consider an authority, as none cite the original sources:

author John Spacey (updated on August 27, 2023) in a blog noted that The phrase "this too shall pass" does not appear to originate in ancient Jewish scripture. It first appears in Jewish literature in the nineteenth century. He attributes it to Persian Folklore: The 13th century Persian Sufi poet Suft Farid al-Din Attar of Nishapu recounted a fable of a king who asks a group of wise men for a ring that will make him happy when sad and sad when happy. The wise men debate amongst themselves and come up with the phrase "this too shall pass." This is the likely origin of the phrase. The phrase is often misattributed to other Sufi poets.

This may refer to Farid ud Din Attar, but I could find nothing on his wiki page, or when reviewing other biographies, even when searching for the phrase in Persian and English, including The Sufi (dot com) which is apparently blacklisted by WP (am requesting that the specific page I read be white-listed as I can find nothing objectionable on it. While the biography I read probably isn't quite WP:NPOV as far as inclusion as a WP article, but as biography for this particular discussion, and for the negative search for the phrase on the site, is certainly germain.

In a "modern retelling" an article on Medium states “This too shall pass” (Persian: این نیز بگذرد‎) is a Persian adage translated and used in multiple languages. It reflects on the temporary nature, or ephemerality, of the human condition. The general sentiment is often expressed in wisdom literature throughout history and across cultures, although the specific phrase seems to have originated in the writings of the medieval Persian Sufi poets such as Rumi and Fariduddin Attar.

This is a Bible passage

Look up 1st Peter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1014:B130:9FFD:6CE0:666C:21E6:5BA6 (talk) 10:35, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

A specific citation would be useful. Saying it is somewhere in a book of the bible doesn't add anything.

No, it isn't. I just checked the entire book.

Proper punctuation? Considering the underlying source?

Hmm... I was actually checking here to see if there were any comments about the punctuation... I see that comment included a comma after "too", but I thought the most accurate punctuation should be "This, too, shall pass." I guess my theory is that the underlying source (in English) would be "This shall pass, too." However, the final ordering seems confusing. Some kind of Yiddish movement of the compound verb? An emphatic shift of the "too"? Shanen (talk) 01:43, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Sufi Version

Idries Shah quoting Attar of Nishapur, gives the Sufi version of this story in 'The Way of the Sufi' , This too will Pass. --Wool Bridge (talk) 23:23, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Hebrew

As the article clearly shows, the phrase does not appear to be Hebrew in origin, nor is Hebrew the primary language in which it appears. It is not productive to include the Hebrew version and not (say) the Persian. The burden of evidence is on the user who wants the material included to defend it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Once again, the sources show that Hebrew is not the original or primary language the proverb appears in. This will have to be addressed, with reliable sources, before the contentious material is worked in. Edit warring is not productive.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:46, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Due to the continuing edit warring, I have protected the page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:56, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I've added the Hebrew to the part of the article that discusses the Hebrew version. Someone will have to make sure the latin and Hebrew versions are correct, but hopefully this settles it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:04, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Quote by Lincoln in Life and Works...

I transcribed Lincoln's speech containing this quote from the Life and Works of Abraham Lincoln volume 5 "The Advantages of Thorough Cultivation, and the Fallacies of the Mud-sill Theory of Labor's Subjection to Capital". This primary source with page scans I believe to be more authoritative that the existing reference to a web page quoting from The Collected Works.... In a few days, I'll make the change unless there are concerns raised. - DutchTreat (talk) 13:54, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Done, added as a second reference. - DutchTreat (talk) 11:12, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Confucian origin?

I just removed the following paragraph from above the lead: “"This too shall pass" - Confucious to the King of Lu, 500 BCE.” I have the feeling that this is a simple misattribution, but if there's any evidence other than some blog posts, please add this info back into the page in the appropriate places. — Harry (talk) 08:24, 11 November 2015 (UTC) The universality of the sentiment is reflected in the numerous different cultures which have expressed it.

Article scope

Is this article about the phrase or about the fable? The phrase "this too shall pass" is not equivalent to "nothing endures".

Obviously, you will find wisdom literature expressing the idea of "nothing endures" in all places throughout the history of writing. But is this article supposed to be about the notion of ephemerality in general? Or about this particular fable involving king Solomon? Or about the English phrase coined by Fitzgerald? --dab (𒁳) 09:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Original research

I've removed the following paragraph, as it appears to be Original Research and is unrelated to the Persian origin of the phrase.

In the tenth-century Anglo-Saxon poem "Deor's Lament", each stanza of the elegy ends in the repetition of the refrain "Þæs ofereode, þisses swa mæg" translated variously as "That passed away; this also may" or "That was overcome, so may this be." In this case the similarity with the Persian form is, of course, coincidental. The same is probably true of the following passage in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice (Vol. III, Ch. 6), published in 1813. The "philosophic composure" of Mr. Bennet leads him to reply to his daughter, Elizabeth, who has counseled him not to become inconsolable after a recent family misfortune, that "You may well warn me against such an evil. Human nature is so prone to fall into it! ...I am not afraid of being overpowered by the impression. It will pass away soon enough."

~dom Kaos~ (talk) 10:47, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I think it would be better if this article was rewritten to be about the phrase in general (compare the article Ubi sunt), with subsections for the Persian, Jewish and Old English attestations, instead of presenting it as a primarily Persian affair. (Then the part about Deor could be re-added - finding a good secondary source should be trivially easy, there has been much written on Deor.) It seems to be a fairly universal human sentiment, which happens to have been particularly eloquently expressed by Persians. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 09:45, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Short Description

I shortened the description per WP:SDSHORT but couldn't think of a shorter one except "Adage". Editor2020 (talk) 23:58, 11 October 2021 (UTC)