Talk:Thessaly

Fertile Plain?

I had always assumed that Thessaly was transferred to Greece by the Ottomans under the pressure that the small Greek Kingdom needed fertile plains to grow food. Is Thessaly a fertile plain (well suited to support agriculture)? Or did the Kingdom already have adequate fertile plains in the Peloponnese (I understand that Greece is 80% mountains)? --Nikoz78 (talk) 21:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Distinction between the periphery and historical Thessaly

Periphery was established in 1987.

• commons:Category:Maps of Thessaly
  • http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Thessaly.jpg - Magnesia set apart, or a subregion? If a subregion, then Dolopia, Malis Aeniania would be subregions too.
  • east: Islands not shown: Skiathos, Skopelos and Alonissos
  • south: Phthiotis is included
• commons:File:Administrative Divisions Greece 1833 de.svg - Phokis-Lokris occupies the southern region
• From Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Greece#Kallikratis_municipalities "The modern administrative region of Thessaly encompasses more or less most of historical Thessaly (minus Lamia and the Spercheios valley)"
• commons:File:Map Greece expansion 1832-1947-en.svg, wider Thessaly marked

GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 14:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Belegezites

The source says that they were firmly established in Thessaly and not that they simply invaded the area or that their settlements are related to any kind of invasions.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Your edit misquoted the source to imply like *all* of Thessaly was taken over by the Belegezites, which of course fits your agenda but distorts what the source says. Btw, are you going to create articles about the Slavic tribes that settled Albania and Kosovo too, or just Greece? Athenean (talk) 23:36, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

There was the tribe of the Baiunites, which settled the region from Dropull in Albania to Arta in Greece. The source says that they were firmly established in Thessaly, so stick to it and please don't relate it to prior invasions, which you haven't sourced or connected to the Belegezites.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

You don't suppose their settlements appeared out of thin air, do you? Of course they invaded. And I'm talking about Albania and Kosovo, not Epirus. Athenean (talk) 23:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I am talking about Albania too since the Baiounites also settled the Dropull area, while only a small part of northern Kosovo was settled by Slavic tribes during the migrations period(eastern and central came under Slavic control in the 9-10th century, while western Kosovo in 1198). The Belegezites invaded and were firmly established in the region of Thessaly in the 7th century.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Right, the Slavs settled everywhere in the Balkans except Albania and Kosovo, which are "pure" Illyrian to this day. I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation. For the last time, your source doesn't say "settled", with all the connotation that that implies. "Firmly established" can just mean from a military point of view, i.e. they were firmly established militarily. After all, the source strictly talks about military events. I know why you are so intent on "settled", I mean this edit says it all [1], trying to misuse the source to imply that *all* of Thessaly was settled and the natives wiped out. Well, it won't happen, not here. I've had enough of this agenda-based editing, and further misuse of sources will be reported. Athenean (talk) 01:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Coming under Slavic control means that Kosovo was settled by Slavs. Btw I'm not implying that any natives were wiped out, but the source doesn't mention any natives.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 07:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Tag: Not to be confused with

Should a confusion tag be put here for Thessalonica? Ssredg (talk) 05:25, 20 June 2012 (UTC) And vice-versa. Ssredg (talk) 07:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the names are that similar. That said, I am Greek, so it wouldn't happen either way. If you find that you yourself might confuse them or know of cases where this has happened, then a tag is warranted. Constantine ✍ 11:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, better not. I searched online and found nothing about distinguishing between the two. I guess it was just me! Ssredg (talk) 07:32, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Demonym?

What do Thessaly's inhabitants call themselves? Krychek (talk) 18:25, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Thessalians in English, Θεσσαλοί, Thessaloi in Greek. Θετταλοί, Thettaloi would be the ancient form (they were the tribe who gave their name to the entire region), but it would be extremely archaic if used today, and probably unknown to most people... --Constantine ✍ 19:30, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

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Aromanian name

Hi Khirurg, thank you for the initial unfriendliness, I am sure it will make interaction between us more pleasant. You reverted me claiming that "we don't list alternate names for official country subdivisions", but the article is also about a geographic region, it is in fact described as such before as a political region. You will find a big number of sources referring to Thessaly as one of the main regions of Aromanian presence together with Macedonia and Epirus [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. I will however agree that since Thessaly is a much more homogeneous region than for example Epirus and Macedonia, including non-Greek names in the lead could be unnecessary (which I had already noted [7]). So how about making a name section, explaining the etymology of the name Thessaly and then briefly including the Aromanian name there? Super Ψ Dro 23:57, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Regarding "friendliness", that's a two way street. You seem to be pushing what appears to be an Aromanian irredentist POV in many articles, as well as an anti-Greek POV even in articles that have nothing to do with Aromanians [8]. I also do not appreciate trying to stir the Balkan pot with unhelpful behavior such as this [9]. So, what goes around comes around. Friendly behavior begets friendliness, hostility begets hostility. Regarding the Aromanian name,the Aromanian presence in Thessaly is very small, it falls under WP:UNDUE. Aromanians in Greece (and not just in Thessaly) are moreover highly assimilated and the language is dying out. One thing that many people from outside Greece who try to stir up "minority issues" don't realize (or sometimes don't want to realize) is the degree to which many linguistic minorities are assimilated. Khirurg (talk) 17:29, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

So adding a map of Turkey in an article about a group of islands disputed between both countries, which previously only had one of Greece, is "anti-Greek"? I don't think so, in fact I believe my edit there contributed to the neutrality of the article. "Aromanian irredentist POV" does such a thing even exist? It's also not my problem if people overreact over a reasonable proposal. There is an entire country whose inhabitants claim to be descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. Is this really not worth mentioning in their article, not even with a paltry sentence at all, which could also include a short critique explaining why this is wrong? But whatever.

I am well aware of the level of assimilation of the Aromanians in Greece, which is basically complete, apart from a few villages on the Pindus. That does not neglect the fact that Thessaly is or, at the very least, has been one of the main regions with Aromanian settlement, and that does not change due to the fact that they are now assimilated. This is all backed by the number of recent sources that I provided above showing how Thessaly is often mentioned as one of the main regions of Aromanian presence. To be honest, I don't see what's wrong with my proposal. If I had first written the section explaining the etymology of Thessaly without adding the Aromanian name, everyone would be happy and there'd be no problem or controversy. I doubt a single sentence that could be as short as "In Aromanian, the region is known as Tesalia" can be so detrimental to the article. Super Ψ Dro 18:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Given that there were large numbers of Aromanians present in the Middle Ages, I would be agreeable to include something along those lines in the History section. I just don't think there's enough for a separate name section, given that it's just one sentence. Khirurg (talk) 00:25, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I wouldn't just make a name section only for the Aromanian name. I also thought of explaining the Greek name, as it is done in Macedonia and particularly in Epirus. Regarding the history section, yeah, it would be good to have a short mention of the Aromanians, they even had a state of their own there (Great Vlachia, which by the way I think only adds more weight to having the Aromanian name of the region somewhere). I might add a short mention of it later. Super Ψ Dro 14:22, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

In that case I suppose it would be alright. Btw, Great Vlachia is already mentioned, in the third paragraph of the "Late Medieval" section. Khirurg (talk) 18:09, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't see it. Since you now agree, I will apply the proposed changes soon. Super Ψ Dro 21:29, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Ottoman rule

I am surprised that 400 years of Ottoman rule are compressed into a sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.71.63 (talk) 12:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)