Talk:The Passage (Battlestar Galactica)

infobox picture spoiler

Erm, is it just me, or is the picture and caption on the page, a *huge* spoiler?

I agree. Would anybody have a picture of (for example) the ships flying through the star cluster, just to show how blinding and chaotic it was? --Kyoko 02:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Content disclaimer - If it spoils then all I can say is tough luck, its a good moment, we shouldn't reduce quality of articles in order not to "spoil" - they shouldn't be reading these articles if they don't want spoiling. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 07:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The more detailed information on spoilers makes it quite clear that the inclusion of spoilers is only acceptable with an appropriate warning preceeding it. I'm quite certain that a simple poetic image of Kat outside her deathbed can still pitch the theme and heart of the episode. --Bacteria 14:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the right setup for image captures, but going along Bacteria's suggestion, perhaps the infobox could be illustrated by an image of Kat when she is confronted by Starbuck, or when she is walking through the hall in a daze. --Kyoko 14:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for offering suggestions but I don't believe they represent the episode as well as the present one does, also there is also a big honking {{spoiler}} warning. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 14:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. Not everyone visits these episode pages looking for spoilers. The photo and the caption spoil the episode's ending without providing any fair warning. This would be akin to the page for Empire Strikes Back having a photo with the caption "Darth Vader tells Luke that he's his father". A better photo would be of one of the Raptors trying to navigate through the radiation cloud. Furthermore, MatthewFenton's got quite a snotty attitude in the posts above. KyuzoGator 14:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Is the current revision by User:86.194.41.220 an acceptable compromise? It deletes the caption entirely. I still would have preferred a different picture, but perhaps this solution isn't quite as much of a spoiler as the version with the caption. --Kyoko 22:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I added "Kat lies in sickbay" for now - doesn't say how or why - but it should do until we either get a better image or someone comes up with a better caption. Cyberia23 23:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd willingly upload a new image if someone can provide a valid reason to change it - there is plenty of warnings Wikipedia contains spoilers and so that to me is - not - a valid reason. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 11:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's a valid reason: The image of Kat on her deathbed spoils the ending. The Spoiler Warning refers to the text in the Plot Summary text section and not to the entire page. For someone who has not yet seen the episode, seeing Kat burned beyond recognition on a hospital bed is a MAJOR spoiler, one that is exposed to the reader before they even see the spoiler warning. Better images for this purpose would be:

- A raptor flying through the radiation.

- Starbuck getting in Kat's face.

- The pilots eating the crumbs off the table.

Kat's injuries and death are a minor part of this episode but a MAJOR part of the series continuity. Look at the above posts, you're the ONLY person here who thinks that image is acceptable. KyuzoGator 14:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, the spoiler warning comes below the picture, not above it, so it doesn't give adequate warning about the picture content. Another thing is that if you are anything like me, your eyes are drawn towards the picture first before reading the main text. --Kyoko 15:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

If you don't want to be "spoiled" why do you read these articles then.. see the Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer it says in big bold letters "WIKIPEDIA CONTAINS SPOILERS AND CONTENT YOU MAY FIND OBJECTIONABLE" thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 15:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I watched the episode and wrote the initial summary (which is still the majority of the content), if you hadn't noticed. You needn't have such an adversarial attitude when you find that other people disagree with you. --Kyoko 15:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I must remember to get a button that is red that speaks (in Gaetas voice) when pressed: "Action stations, action stations. Set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill." thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 15:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Thanks for changing the picture. --Kyoko 15:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The picture that is up now is a thousand times more appropriate. The episode is about the search for food, the pilots are hungry. Good selection, and I'd like us to stick with it. KyuzoGator 16:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone's bloody changed it! Is this a joke to these people? 80.47.152.227 22:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

The earlier picture that depicted the pilots eating the crumbs off the table was far superior to the one that is up now. I think we should go back to that other photo. KyuzoGator 19:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

D'Anna Biers and Baltar subplots

OK, I think I've adequately covered the main plot of the episode, but I just can't figure out how to integrate the subplot of (spoiler warning) D'Anna Biers intentionally having herself killed and resurrected in order to get a glimpse of the afterlife, and Baltar's efforts to decipher what the Cylon hybrid is saying. Please help. --Kyoko 19:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I added the best parts of the Cylon's scene as well as I could. My TV sucks though and the speakers muffle some of the dialog when I crank the volume and so I miss many important details. Cyberia23 23:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Kat's associate

I'm not sure, but I think when Starbuck approached the guy who knew Kat she called him "Enzo". I couldn't hear it very well. It didn't really sound like "hey you", and it appeared that she knew who the guy was to begin with. Anyone know for sure? Cyberia23 23:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

"Hey Enzo" - I think that is what she said.. sounds like it to me. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 00:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking for a character list at the moment to see if the actor is credited under that name. Cyberia23 00:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Confirmed - It's Enzo - according to SciFi.com Cyberia23 00:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The Closed Captioning also referred to him as Enzo. ZZ 14:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

He's also credited as Enzo as well in the credits on re-watch (Patrick Currie portrayed). Matthew 19:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Continuity section

I removed the section titled "Continuity", because it is pure speculation.

This episode introduces a possible inconsistency in Cylon physiology. Athena is shown to be much more resistant to radiation poisoning than a human. (Although when this is pointed out by Apollo, Helo says "We think", meaning that they do not know that for certain.) This seems contrary to the mini-series, where the original copy of Leoben Conoy encountered in the munitions depot at Ragnar Anchorage is portrayed to be especially vulnerable to radiation. However, it should be noted that radiation comes in many different varieties, depending on the source, and it can be simply assumed that the Cylons were particularly vulnerable to the radiation type present at Ragnar Anchorage (hence the decision to build the station there), but have a much greater resistance to the radiation present in this episode. They might also be presumed resistant to the radiation which saturated Caprica following their nuclear attack on it, given that they settled there.

This is about a "possible" inconsistency, based on what the characters "think" they know, which "seems" contrary to the miniseries, but only if the author "assumes" something about the types of radiation, which is supported by something the author "presumes" about the settling of Caprica. This has no place in Wikipedia. -- Ritchy 03:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I re-added the paragraph with more definite wording. The inconsistency is pretty obvious and there is no need to try to come to the rescue of the writers with 'assume's or 'might's. -- 131.246.194.46 07:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

For those who keep saying "there are different kinds of radiation, perhaps the radiation in this episode is different from the one in the miniseries":

• Isn't that one 'perhaps' too much? This is neither said nor implied in the episode.
• Please give one real-life example of organisms that are resistant against one type of ionizing radiation but not against another. Not that real-life physics/biology matters in BSG though ;-).

IMO, the (short) continuity section is okay. Adding further tries at explanations seems to me like trying to help the writers who didn't really care about continuity (as you can see, this is the first BSG episode of writer Jane Espenson - also look at her CV...) plus that simply isn't facts as presented in the series but, well, speculation. -- NotInventedHere 11:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe the text is speculative and shouldn't be included.. it's fiction at the end of the day, I dispute it's relevancy/accuracy and so a consensus should be achieved prior to actually adding it. Matthew 12:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why the short text is speculative. In the miniseries, it is clear that Leoben/cylons are more sensitive to radiation ("The Cylons, more vulnerable to the radiation...", quote from Battlestar Galactica (TV miniseries)), while in this episode, Athena survives a radiation dose that would be deadly to humans. So absolutely no speculation (within the realms of the BSG universe at least, and that's what the article is about). Also, these statements are as accurate as you can get. As for relevancy, well, let's just delete all BSG episode guides from Wikipedia :-). However, embedding these plot problems into the article might be a better solution. So now I've answered your questions, please answer mine (see above). BTW I really don't think "science fiction" is an excuse for blatant continuity mistakes. See Hard Science Fiction for further info. -- NotInventedHere 13:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't consider it a continuity mistake (not without a source, at least) -- The radiation of Ragnar effected Leoben over a period of time, he became ill. The radiation Athena received is also over a period of time and it /does/ have a visible effect, note the radiation of Ragnar didn't kill Leoben. See this page. Matthew 13:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

See Ragnar on bsgwiki.com for Leoben/Cylon sensitivity to radiation (additionally to the miniseries article I already cited). See "The Passage" episode for the statement that Athena, as a cylon, ISN'T as sensitive to radiation as a human (when coming back from her trip and being decontaminated). As for nuclear radiation types (your link), alpha and beta radiation can't penetrate station/ship steel walls (only gamma can, at least in RL). But you are right, these types of inconsistencies are everywhere in BSG (see Cylons on a-bombed Caprica) so mentioning this here might be not the best idea. -- NotInventedHere 14:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

To be honest I know little about radiation (I just googled radiation types, and that was the second link.. had a .gov prefix and so used that one as a reference). The operative word is however "radiation", it's vague. To this end I propose that it would be better noted in the actual Cylon article. Matthew 15:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)