Talk:The Eighty (Vichy France)

Title of article

I agree with some of the commentators on the AFD page, this article needs a shorter title. The French wikipedia article is titled Loi constitutionelle du 10 juillet 1940, or "Constitutional Law of July 10, 1940". Perhaps we could do something similar, something briefer, make it easier for someone to find the article. "The Vichy 80" perhaps? SigPig 22:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the original title was a poor choice. How about The Vichy 80, as a translation of les 80? Regarding Constitutional Law of July 10, 1940, maybe make a redirect to the article for the time being and split the thing in two in case more material comes up. That is if the deletion doesn't go through. Also, look at this one ISBN 2879380804 (or on amazon.fr).

Tony Bruguier 01:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I know this has been here a while but "the Vichy 80" strikes me as an oxymoron - what the 80 have in common is that they were anti-Vichy! Is this really the term most commonly used by anglophone historians? Timrollpickering 14:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know that there is a short, snappy English-language name. The popularity of the short French name Les Quatre-vingts seems to derive in part from Jean Odin's book, a title reused by Pierre Miquel. Was either book translated? Not according to the LOC catalogues. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

In light of this discussion, I have moved the article to "The Eighty" which at least adopts a French term with some kind of common usage. "The Vichy 80", as noted above years ago, is contradictory and has no usage in any language. I still think a better title may be found. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:44, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Lebrun deposed

This article says "When Lebrun was removed from the office on 29 June,..."; however, the Albert Lebrun article says he "accept[ed] the German terms of surrender on July 10, 1940, after which he was replaced by Philippe Pétain (although Lebrun never officially resigned) by a vote of the parliament.", which seems to indicate he was not removed from office. So when was Lebrun removed from office? Thanks. SigPig 06:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

And also Lebrun's name is on the text of the law - did he actually sign it? If I understand correctly, technically the vote in and of itself did not remove Lebrun from office, but rather gave the powers to Pétain that subsequently allowed him to revoke the clauses that gave the office its existence. So by constitutional law (accepting the vote itself as legitimate; however from the POV of the Vichy regime it was) Lebrun didn't need to resign (or be overthrown) as his office had ceased to exist. This also meant that later on he could claim a form of legitimacy and continuity, and in turn confer legitimacy on de Gaulle. But what was Lebrun doing in early July 1940 - actually doing the job of President or fleeing or putting up internal resistance? Timrollpickering 00:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

The vote of full powers to Pétain passed the National Assembly on July 10. It granted Pétain the right not only to promulgate a new constitution but also gave him full executive and legislative powers. He used the latter, on the following day, July 11, to declare himself "Chief of State" (Chef d'Etat). On July 12, Lebrun was thus out of a job, a situation to which he did not object. Lebrun thus informally stepped aside; but, as you've said, the office of President of the Republic officially ceased to exist even before Lebrun vacated it. ObeliskBJM^talk 15:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Consequences

Did these men faced any consequences because of their vote (by Germans or by Vichy regime)? -- Obradović Goran (ta^lk 21:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Not as a group, but many of them did individually. Marx Dormoy, for instance, was imprisoned by the Vichy regime and then murdered later in the war by the Milice. Blum and others were hauled before the Riom show tribunal. And many of the Massilia absentees, including Zay, Mandel, and Mendès-France, were also arrested and imprisoned by Vichy for 'fleeing' metropolitan France during wartime (even though they had been authorized to sail to Morocco by Pétain). ObeliskBJM^talk 15:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Table sections explanation needed

It's not clear what the difference is between "Voluntary abstaining" and "Other abstaining" and that could really do with an explanation. Come to think of how do they differentiate from that one "Not voting" senator? Keresaspa (talk) 02:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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