Talk:The Clash/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Genre of the Clash

Why did someone make them out as "New Wave, Reggae Fusion" along with punk? They may have had other influences, but they were first and foremost a punk band.

The Clash are a Punk band that have released several Disoo, New Wave, Reggae and Ska songs. Not only were their influences all over the map, so was their output.

~~ Add POP ROCK to their genres, many sources say they weren't a real punk rock band http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2005/02/debunking_punk.html either pop rock, pop punk or post-punk. there is no way in hell you are telling me that songs like "should i stay or should i go" are punk rock, it's a pop song and that's the end of discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.117.10 (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Capitalisation of "The" Clash

MOS is very clear about this: "Mid-sentence, the word "the" should not be capitalized in continuous prose, except when quoted or beginning a phrase in italics or bold." TMCk (talk) 21:52, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Even in proper names? Wwwhatsup (talk) 23:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, even in proper names. Please see the provided link for more detail.TMCk (talk) 13:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Note, however that as the MOS is only a guideline, consensus among editors involved in a given article can override that provision, as in the case of The Beatles. I, for one, am fine with either "the Clash" or "The Clash" mid-sentence, so long as it is applied consistently. As there does not appear to be a groundswell here in favor of retaining "The Clash," the switch to the guideline-favored style is appropriate. DocKino (talk) 21:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Clash Image

fyi the image used in the info ox is up for deletion at commons --Guerillero | My Talk 21:31, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Still No Details for the Sort it Out Tour?

24.185.237.94 (talk) 00:50, 5 August 2011 (UTC)It seems significant to me and I wonder why this tour doesn't get more attention. 1. It is noteworthy because if for no other reason,the Slits and the Innocents played the whole tour. A total of eight women were on this tour. This of itself was extraordinary at that time. There were limited opportunities for women. Plus Caroline Coon was their manager. The Clash should be honored for their lack of chauvinism and important support of women musicians.

2: What of the council meetings that banned them from playing certain cities on this tour? Surely this is worth attention?

I think it's a fair suggestion. Dig up some refs and put it in there. If briefly. Wwwhatsup (talk) 17:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I'll find out what I can about this and put it into the post.EstherLaver (talk) 19:43, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Cut The Crap US Tour

There's no mention that the 'Cut The Crap' line-up toured on the west coast of the USA, although it is detailed in Cut The Crap. Surely that copy would be more appropriate here? If not, at least a mention. Although I do think that "well-received" might be an overstatement. Wwwhatsup (talk) 17:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

British/English

I've described the Clash as British rather than English because of it's members. Joe Strummer was half Scottish, a quarter English an eighth Armenian and an eighth German Jewish. Mick Jones was half Welsh and a quarter Russian. The Clash wern't English, they originated from all parts of Britain (and beyond). Unknown Unknowns (talk) 12:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

There was discussion of this some time ago, and "English" has been the settled description used in this Good Article for years. I've reverted to that status quo for the time being. Let's take a look at several high-quality sources and see what we find.—DocKino (talk) 21:49, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

US sources will describe them as 'English', UK sources won't mention the group's nationality. 'English' could just as easily refer to where the band was formed or based so this is a minor issue. Unknown Unknowns (talk) 08:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Where can I listen the music in the Wiki,please help me..., DEFFODIL'1995 (talk) 09:38, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Infobox

With the recent consensus reached at The Beatles, isn't it time to update this abomination of an infobox in similar fashion? Joefromrandb (talk) 23:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

For those who didn't follow the Beatles discussion (me), can you please explain what you are suggesting? Thanks J04n(talk page) 00:13, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that! (See Talk:The Beatles for more-detailed info.) I am basically seconding User:DocKino's sound suggestion that the infobox not put Pete Howard and Vince White on an even par with Jones and Strummer. At The Beatles, thanks in no small part to User:GabeMc, we now have an infobox listing JPG&R as the "principal line-up", while listing Sutcliffe and Best as "other". I think that this article would be improved by implementing something similar. Joefromrandb (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, so much for that idea. Joefromrandb (talk) 22:20, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Joe. Missed this thread. Glad to hear you support the idea. Let's give it a few more days and then move forward, assuming the consensus at The Beatles remains firm. DocKino (talk) 00:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

^ agree :) benzband (talk) 15:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I hope this remains a case-by-case option for infoboxes, because in some cases will lead to POV issues (ie The Rolling Stones). It is clearly well suited for the Beatles. I have a minor reservation for this situation though, Terry Chimes. He was a founding member and was on their debut album. I agree that Headon is the drummer for the 'classic' lineup, but that is only my opinion. Do we have solid sources naming the 'classic' lineup with Headon? No conflicting sources listing Chimes? Short of this we should obtain a clear consensus on the lineup before initiating. J04n(talk page) 16:25, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

How about Chimes / Headon (stroke)? benzband (talk) 16:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Partly for this very reason, the style arrived at in the discussion at The Beatles was not to list a "Principal line-up", but simply "Principal [members]". I think there's little argument that the principal members of The Clash were Jones, Strummer, Simonon, Chimes, and Headon. Those, are for instance, precisely the five Clash members inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The new format's inclusion of individual active dates should also make clear at a glance that Chimes and Headon were not in the band at the same time. DocKino (talk) 20:30, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I could get behind this, and the RR HoF is a perfect source. J04n(talk page) 20:33, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

We seem to be in agreement here. Should we go ahead and make the change? Joefromrandb (talk) 18:43, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. We've achieved an unambiguous consensus. I've made the change. DocKino (talk) 07:10, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Roadie

Chris Henderson(Singer of the Band Combat 84)plays also a Roadie or something,or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.54.181.144 (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Pricing of albums

No mention is made of the pricing of the double album London Calling barely above the cost of as single, and likewise the pricing of Sandinista! The band forgoed profits in order to make these multi-disc records affordable to their fans. Huw Powell (talk) 12:33, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Oops. "forwent"! Huw Powell (talk) 23:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Need photo in info box that includes all principal members of band/Should mention Mick Jones' first band, The Delinquents

• Although the photograph in the info box is, indeed, wonderful, it does not show the full lineup of the band at that time, as we have the right to expect. Any lead photo in such a major article on the Clash should include all four members, including Topper Headon, who most would agree was their definitive drummer in their definitive lineup. Such a photo would be best be from the period circa 1979 (as is the one shown), but including the whole band--preferably taken by Pennie Smith (if publisher permission granted or public commons).

• The article says nothing about Mick Jones' first band, the Delinquents (he was a member in that glam-influenced protopunk band in 1974, prior to his involvement with London SS). Chapter 2 (pg. 33-39 in 2004 edition) of The Clash" Return of the Last Gang in Town, by Marcus Gray recounts his time with the Delinquents. The article should add mention of this. Garagepunk66 (talk) 08:34, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Joe Strummer may have become a conservative?

"Sean Egan suggested that Joe Strummer may have become a conservative in some form towards the end of his life, citing that he sent his children to private school, was a friend of Conservative politician Boris Johnson and apparent evasions in part of a 2002 interview with the author in which Strummer was asked about The Clash's early protest songs being written under a Labour government.[104]"

This statement seems very speculative, even if it is from a reliable source. He SUGGESTED Strummer MAY have become a conservative. And while I cannot judge the facts themselves, they read almost like not-sequiters. He had a friend who was a conservative therefore he may have been a conservative? Are conservatives the only ones who send there kids to private schools? (The Labour government bit is too obtuse for me to even understand without the source material...) Also, while I could maybe see this maybe going into the Joe Strummer article, it is not at all relevant to an article about the politics of The Clash. It is not like The Clash got back together in 2002 to release an album about how public schools lead to dependence on the welfare state and the decline of this once great nation. 140.163.0.5 (talk) 17:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I think we need to seriously consider removing this statement, because it may be grievously misleading--I would have to look at the book from which it is being cited, but I have a feeling that the author of the book is either mistaken or being taken out of context, one or the other. I've read and watched numerous interviews with Strummer and seen two documentaries that cover his late years and I have seen nothing that would indicate that he ever fundamentally departed from his socialist beliefs or became a tory. Mellowed, yes, but became conservative--no evidence. Without more corroboration and definite proofs here, we run the risk of mischaracterizing the beliefs and intentions of a person who is considered a hero, but is no longer here to speak for himself. And, we don't have any right to do that. Garagepunk66 (talk) 07:02, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Notice of an RfC about including the word "The" in song/album article titles

Hello there! I started a discussion on the page Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Music on 7 July, and it hasn't received any responses. This RfC concerns the use of the word "The" in band names in parentheses in the titles of articles about songs and albums. Further elaboration can be found on that discussion page. I would appreciate thoughts from anyone who may be interested in the discussion. Thank you. –Matthew - (talk) 20:54, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Clean up - still GA quality?

This article was listed as GA in 2008, 14 years ago. It appears to have grown a little messy over the years, with dubious material and unsourced comments added. The lead is not a satisfactory summary of the article or the band's history, and there are a series of very short paragraphs were people appear to have simply added random information over the years. The album needs a proper clean up if it is to retain GA listing. Are there any editors who watch this article who would be prepared to clean it up? SilkTork (talk) 15:48, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Adding “Disco” to the genre list

The Clash have been cited as introducing disco to a wider audience, their biggest hit was a disco tune about Iranians being persecuted for owning disco records, and the wiki page for their single “The Magnificent Dance” cites Pitchfork Media as including it in its “Early 80s Disco” playlist. Also included is a cite that mentions their fourth album as including disco in it.

Cite saying they introduced disco to their audience: https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-clash-underrated-b-sides/

Pitchfork Early 80s Disco playlist, as cited on “The Magnificent Dance” wiki page: https://pitchfork.com/features/pitchfork-essentials/9696-early-80s-disco/

An article about their fourth album “Sandinista!” which mentions them using disco on the record: https://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2022/12/12/december-12-in-music-history-the-clash-release-sandinista

Rock the Casbah as a disco song about Iranians being persecuted for owning disco albums at the time: https://americansongwriter.com/the-meaning-behind-the-clashs-1982-hit-rock-the-casbah/ 2600:6C50:57F:A3A5:C3F:1533:D2F2:6E43 (talk) 03:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

No, you are twisting the sources to jam them into your hypothesis. American Songwriter never calls the song or the band "disco". The story only talks about how Iranians could be punished for owning a disco record. Pitchfork says that the song "The Magnificent Dance" is a disco remix of the Clash's song "The Magnificent Seven", so it's not so closely connected with the Clash themselves. The Current lists 11 genres flowing through Sandinista!, which means the album is freeform, not really having a genre, and by extension, the band by this time was not married to a particular genre, especially not disco. Far Out magazine says that the Clash introduced "fans to reggae, dub, disco, and even hip-hop." It doesn't say the band was a disco band, or a dub band, or a hip hop band. Binksternet (talk) 06:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)