Talk:The Bends (song)

A single review

Is there any Irish magazine, newspaper or whatever that reviewed "The Bends" as a single apart from the reviews that were given to it as a title track on The Bends reviews? This is the first question. Second question: Does anyone know any other official Irish Singles Chart from a magazine that included "The Bends" in which it could be placed in the body of the article? Tamer Gunner (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Bends (song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:35, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Nearly two months since this was nominated, so I will conduct a review! --K. Peake 09:35, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Should Oxfordshire really be wikilinked since it is a county?

• I wikilinked 2 Oxfordshire, one in the intro and second in the Writing section, I think it's enough

• List experimental rock under genres here like you have in the body

• Though this genre is from a reliable source, I do not feel "The Bends" is experimental enough to be added in the infobox

• That does seem quite inconsistent if it is listed under genres in comp, so maybe just say it includes elements instead? --K. Peake 06:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• Done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamer Gunner (talk • contribs) 17:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• The writing sentence should be the second of the lead, followed by the recording one

• Done

• "it was released by" → "the song was released by"

• Done

• Move the Irish Singles Chart position to being before the other versions, Best Of and most performed info, which I will instruct to re-order

• Done

• "was included on" → "was included on their greatest hits album," with the wikilink, moving this to the second to last sentence of the lead

• Done

• "or various artists." → "or other artists, such as..." followed by examples and make this the sentence after the above one

• Done, with keeping "various" as it is a type of an album's artist

• ""The Bends" was written in" → "The song was written in"

• Done

• "before recording it" → "before recording was done"

• Done

• Again, is the wikilink on Oxfordshire needed?
• Remove producer introduction to John Leckie since this is provided in the body

• Done

• The most performed sentence should be the one before the greatest hits album in the new order

• Done

• The musical and sections sentences should come before the rest of the comp/lyrics info

• Done

• "to be more humorous." → "to be of a humorous nature."

• Done

• I don't see pressures as actually being sourced anywhere in the body; it seems to be something more similar to sickness

• Fixed

• "the success of "Creep."" → "the success of "Creep"."

• Done

• You should add a sentence about critical reception after lyrics, followed by one mentioning some of the accolades

• Done

• Remove the especially Brian May part because this is too much detail for the lead

• Done

Writing and recording

• "and was originally titled "The Benz."" → "originally going under the title of "The Benz"."

• Done, without adding "of"

• "credited to all" → "while credited to all"

• Done

• Remove the comma after debut album

• Done

• ""["The Bends"] is one" → ""['The Bends'] is one" per the rules on each double speech marks inside quotations

• Done

• "numerous times earlier." → "numerous times prior to release." and add the weird quote from one of the band members

• Done

• [7][8][9][10][11] is too many refs at the end of a sentence; you could add them all to a footnote, but I would suggest only keeping sources here confirming it was performed multiple times before release, rather than ones like Far Out Magazine that focus on specific performances

• Done

• "recorded a 4-track demo" → "recorded a four-track demo" per MOS:NUM

• I think this word must be written like this as it a type of a demonstration.

• Thinking more about it in this context, you are correct. --K. Peake 06:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• Remove commas around Jim Warren

• Done

• Are you sure Oxfordshire should be wikilinked since it is a county?
• "that produced "High and Dry."" → "that produced "High and Dry"." with the pipe

• This double article will be separated into two articles soon, so it's best to leave it like that

• I had no idea but now I am aware, keep any of these wikilinks. --K. Peake 06:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• "their upcoming second album," → "their then-upcoming second album"

• Done

• "to be nominated as" → "to be considered as" since nominated is not really the appropriate term here

• Became "selected as a potential follow-up single"

• That works --K. Peake 06:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• "recorded on the same day" – is this really appropriate language after "as well as"?

• Removed

• "took two-week sessions for" → "spent two-weeks working on"

• Done

• "it was recorded in" → "the song was recorded in"

• Done

• "and Yorke's vocals were more" → "with Yorke's vocals including more"

• more what?

• ""bombastic," Radiohead added "tinkling" sound effects" → ""bombastic", Radiohead added "tinkling" sound effects," per MOS:QUOTE

• Done without adding the comma

• You needn't add that, but move the ref to the end of the sentence instead. --K. Peake 06:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• Done

Composition

Music

• Does [28] really work as a source for the song being hard rock since that genre is mentioned in the sentence before "The Bends"?

• As the source mentioned, translated "The band hadn't completely abandoned hard rock as they did on the title track and 'Bones'", so, genre-wise, the title track is hard rock

• Grunge should not be included as a genre when post-grunge is, as that is a sub-genre

• I think the track is more post-grunge as the genre merges grunge with hard rock, while grunge is more hardcore, also grunge was dead in this era

• My point is that when a sub-genre in post-grunge is included, it is probably appropriate to remove grunge. --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• Remove the comma after post-grunge per British English and move [30] to the end of the sentence, before [31]

• Done

• Distortion effects should come before the vocals part since musical elements belong first, also remove the comma between effects/vocals

• Done

• Remove MusicTAP because that is an unreliable source with no staff page

• Done

• "and Christopher Burns of" → "while Christopher Burns of"

• Done

• "in "The Bends" opening line:" → "when focusing on "The Bends" opening line:"

• Done

• "go from here?"." → "go from here?"" because the question mark ends the sentence

• Done

• "compared to the work" → "that was compared to the work"

• Done

• "It is played in" → "The song is played in"

• Done

• Wikilink tempo

• Done

• Write out beats per minute and add BPM in brackets instead

• Done

• Pipe range to Vocal range

• Done

• Wikilink chord progression

• Done

• add9 appears to be a formatting mistake; what is supposed to be the symbol showing up instead?

• Actually I don't know, if you know, edit it if necessary

• I replaced the sup template with sub, which seems to be right. --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• "by the three guitarists, Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, and" → "by the three guitarists: Yorke; Jonny Greenwood; and"

• Done

• Add release year of "How Soon Is Now?"

• Done

• Pipe multi-tracked to Multitrack recording

• Done

• "low in the mix." → "appearing low in the mix."

• Done

Lyrics

• Quote box looks good!
• "The lyrics were" → "The lyrics of "The Bends" were" because this is a new sub-section

• Done

• "faithlessness, and stasis." → "faithlessness and stasis." per British English

• Done

• Specify whose trip the Sixties part is referencing

• The source did not specify

• "to your gigs." Yorke later" → "to your gigs"; Yorke later" per overly short sentences

• Done

• "your friends are."" → "your friends are"." per MOS:QUOTE

• Done Tamer Gunner (talk) 18:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• The sentence feels like a run-on when it gets to the "which, despite achieving" part, so you should start a new sentence here with "Despite this achieving" or "Despite the song achieving", depending on the meaning of the source (I can't access it)

• If you or someone else has a better way to simplify this long sentence, do it

• I have already specified that you can split into a second sentence at the achieving part, furthermore when "it also caused them" is written in the new context this will read smoothly. --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• Done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamer Gunner (talk • contribs) 18:00, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• "also caused them" → "it also caused them"

• Done

• "also were compared" → "were also compared" and add release years of the songs in brackets

• Done

• "by Elvis Costello, and" → "by Elvis Costello and"

• Done

• "the recurring lines" → "the recurring lines,"

• I added : instead of ,

• "about other bands'" → "at other bands'"

• Done

• Add the release years of the Oasis songs

• Done

• "and "Rock 'n' Roll Star."" → "and "Rock 'n' Roll Star"."

• Done

• [45] should be solely at the end of the sentence

• Done

• "repeated "accusation" line:" → "repeated query line:" per the source saying the line is not used as an accusation at this point

• Done

• "when I need you?"." → "when I need you?""

• Done

Release

• Pipe B-side to A-side and B-side

• Done

• "titled "The Benz,"" → "titled "The Benz","

• Done

• Remove 1993 after 23 February because that year is implied by its usage earlier on in this sentence

• Done

• "second album, The Bends,[52][53] released on" → "second album The Bends on" moving [52][53] to the end of the sentence before [54]

• The [52][53] sources says The Bends was released on 13 March, but [54] says it was first released in Japan on 8 March, so it is better to leave them

• Wikilink 7-inch vinyl per MOS:LINK2SECT and was this the second track too; be clear?

• Done, but it's enough to put one "second track", clear sentence

• Grammatically, this does seem clear. --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• Remove full-stop from inside the song title and mention when this was released

• Done

• Pipe compilations to Compilation album

• Done

• Remove comma after third album

• Done

• [61] should be solely at the end of the sentence per it not following punctuation

• Done

• ""Bones," recorded at" → ""Bones", both recorded at"

• Done

• "included in online music stores, including" → "included on" since Amazon is the only one able to be listed

• Done

• Remove eBay per discussion

• Done

• "Its artwork features" → "The accompanying artwork features"

• Done

• "and in Belgium by EMI Belgium in May 1996, included" → "while issued in Belgium by EMI Belgium in May 1996, including" with the pipe, also cite the single release instead because the current source provides none of this info
• If the single release does not source the artwork part, then remove this info since it is not backed up currently
• Remove wikilink on David Bowie

• The first wikilink was for "Bowie pastiche", I put another wikilink in this section for the full name

• Well remove the one on his surname then per MOS:LINKSTYLE --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• "bands including Pulp, Blur, and" → "bands such as Pulp, Blur and"

• Done

• [67] should be solely at the end of the sentence before [68]

• Done

• ""slightly" different lyrics, and" → "moderately different lyrics and" to avoid too much quoting of single words

• Done

Critical reception

• Mention the Hot Press and People reviewers by name

• Done

• Remove wikilink on "Planet Telex"

• There was 1 wikilink for the footnote 2; I kept the other wikilink cause it comes first in the section

• "of Santa Cruz Sentinel" → "of the Santa Cruz Sentinel" and put some of this review into your own words per WP:QUOTEFARM

• Done for adding "the", but for the "own" words I can't find thing suitable in my head, so you can help with some ideas or adding directly if you can. Tamer Gunner (talk) 22:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• For the second sentence of the review, try something like "Kleinedler appreciated the "seemingly self-pitying line", seeing it as not really self-pity but "what defines Radiohead"." --K. Peake 09:31, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• Done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamer Gunner (talk • contribs) 16:52, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• That looks a lot better and I added the word instead to smoothen it out, however you need to remember to sign off comments since the revision history shows many have relied on auto-signing by SineBot. --K. Peake 16:58, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• "of Chicago Tribune" → "of the Chicago Tribune"

• Done

• "wrote that the song" → "wrote that the song is"

• Done

• Mention the name of the CMJ New Music Monthly reviewer

• Done

Legacy

• "wrote that it was" → "wrote that the song is"

• Done

• Remove commas around the 2007 and 2010 books, also move [78] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• "likened "The Bends" to" → "likened the song to" to avoid overusage of the title

• Done

• "wrote: "On "The Bends"," → "wrote: "On 'The Bends'," per rules on double speech marks inside quotes

• Done

• Remove BuzzFeed per WP:RSP

• Done

• "named it the" → "ranked the track as the" plus shouldn't this sentence have the year listed like the following one?

• Done

• Pipe Vulture to Vulture.com per MOS:LINK2SECT

• Done

• "named it the 76th best," → "listed the song as the band's 76th best,"

• Done

Live performances

• "most performed songs,[88] and" → "most performed songs and" moving [88] to the end of the sentence instead

• Done

• "It was first performed" → "The song was first performed"

• Done

• Wikilink Tel Aviv

• Done

• "in Chicago Illinois in June,[92] and" → "in Chicago, Illinois in June and" per overly obvious wikilink and move [92] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• Add a relevant img instead because no performance at the Centre Ball is mentioned
• "(1995),[95] and the 2009 reissue" → "(1995) and the 2009 reissue", moving [95] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• "they performed it in their performance" → "the band performed it for their set"

• Done

• "on the 2009 reissue of The Bends "Special Collectors Edition" on DVD." → "on the 2009 DVD "Special Collectors Edition" reissue." per this already having been introduced

• Done

• "in the setlists of" → "on the setlists of"

• Done

• "1997 festival [[Eurockéennes|Les Eurockéennes de Belfort in France in July,[105] and" → "July festival Les Eurockéennes de Belfort in France and" moving [105] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• "(2003),[110] and In Rainbows" → "(2003) and In Rainbows" moving [110] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• "they performed it" → "they performed a rendition of it"

• Done

• Remove comma after ninth album

• Done

Covers and other usage

• Retitle to Cover versions and media usage
• "wrote on the single notes:" → "wrote in the single's notes:"

• Done

• Wikilink bonus track per MOS:LINK2SECT

• Done

• Remove comma after eighth album

• Done

• The quote about recording in 97/98 is actually from a band member so attribute appropriately, also do not use double speech marks inside quotes
• "it in other live performances in" → "it on other occasions in" moving [123] solely to the end of the sentence

• Done

• Remove Rosie Carney version per WP:SONGCOVER, unless you can add enough info to justify the inclusion

Track listings

• Only pipe to 02 Forum Kentish Town on the first instance

Personnel

• Retitle to Credits and personnel

• Done

• Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel

• Done

• Remove pipe on The White Chocolate Farm

• Credits to Thom Yorke

• He has been wikilinked previously, though; see WP:OVERLINK. --K. Peake 07:02, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Charts

• See MOS:TABLECAPTION

• Done Tamer Gunner (talk) 02:16, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

See also

• Good

Notes

• Retitle to Notes and references

• Done

Footnotes

• Pipe "Planet Telex" to Planet Telex / High and Dry
• "of "The Bends," while" → "of "The Bends", while"

• Done

Citations

• Copyvio score looks quality at 27.5%!!!
• Remove or replace refs 2 and 84 per WP:RSP

• Done for ref 2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamer Gunner (talk • contribs) 17:32, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• Wikilink Far Out Magazine on ref 9

• Done

• Remove or replace ref 16 because this is a forum, clearly violating WP:SELFPUB
• Remove or replace refs 32 and 69 per WP:RSSM
• Remove or replace ref 36 per the source having no staff page or any other evidence of reliability

• Done

• Fix MOS:QWQ issues with ref 40

• Done

• Remove or replace refs 55 and 66 per WP:UGC
• Amazon → Amazon.com on ref 57 and pipe to Amazon (company)

• Done

• Fix MOS:CAPS issues with refs 61, 117, 119 and 123

• Done for just ref 61

• Remove pipe on Amazon.co.uk for ref 63

• Done

• Remove or replace ref 64 per discussion

• Done

• Should ref 72 really have the location parameter when it is the same as the paper's city?

• Removed

• Wikilink CMJ New Music Monthly on ref 75 per MOS:LINK2SECT

• Done

• WP:OVERLINK of The Gazette on ref 79
• Pipe Billboard to Billboard (magazine) on ref 80

• Done

• Pipe Vulture to Vulture.com on ref 87 per MOS:LINK2SECT
• Wikilink Audacy on ref 88

• Done

• I have my doubts about ref 94's reliability because Rock Cellar Magazine says nothing apart from that it is a source for music news, rock & roll, and celebrities, so what makes this reliable?
• Crack Magazine → Crack on ref 97, piping to Crack (magazine)

• Done

• Pipe Radio X to Radio X (United Kingdom) on ref 104

• Done

• Fix MOS:CAPS issues with ref 108 and why are you citing the user as the author? If she wrote this, then remove per unreliability.
• Wikilink New York Daily News on ref 116

• Done

• Wikilink Atwood Magazine on ref 125

• Done

Sources

• Wikilink ECW Press

• Done

• Pipe Omnibus to Omnibus Press

• Done

• Pipe Boxtree to Macmillan Publishers

• Done

• Wikilink Soft Skull Press

• Done

• Wikilink Routledge

• Done

External links

• Good

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; there is a good amount of reliable sources but these aren't detrimental to the article, so I won't be quick failing. --K. Peake 20:15, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• Comment: Just a note to say that a number of these recommendations, such as changing "Radiohead/they" to "the band" and "The Bends" or "it" to "the song" appear to introduce a large amount of elegant variation, which is usually detrimental. See WP:ELEVAR for more information on that. Popcornfud (talk) 14:37, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

• Popcornfud I understand that this may appear to be a problem in some areas, but when you have used terms like "it", "they" or "the band" consecutively, it can become unclear what you are referring to, especially with the former term. --K. Peake 20:29, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

• Popcornfud A good number of days have past since your last comments; any updates on this? --K. Peake 18:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

  Well, since you ask: personally I feel the article is a bit overstuffed. I question if all the detail is necessary, I think the prose is overwrought in places, and I think there's an overabundance of citations. I think the whole thing could use a haircut. I also don't agree that many of the replacements of pronouns benefits clarity. But hey, I'm not the reviewer here. Popcornfud (talk) 20:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

• Popcornfud Some of the prose changes may be a bit repetitive and if you want to point out which specifically, I am more than willing to take a further look. Also, the detail thing is not a problem but reliable sources have to be used per guidelines otherwise GA status is not acheivable. --K. Peake 17:06, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

  The use of pronouns doesn't seem repetitive to me - that's what pronouns are for - and the use of elegant variation is distracting. Again, see WP:ELEVAR.

  And yeah, naturally, articles require reliable sources. I'm talking about when statements that only require one citation have two or three - ie WP:CITEOVERKILL. This bogs down prose and makes things harder to verify, not easier, because it's not clear what information is in what citation. Popcornfud (talk) 18:13, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

• Popcornfud I understand what you are getting at here; would you prefer if I had a look through this article with a different mindset and only pointed out missed issues of a high importance, or if you went over which changes were not implemented and I thought them through deeper? --K. Peake 19:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

  Without wanting to sound pissy, it isn't important to me whether this article passes the GA review or not - GA/FA reviews aren't an area of interest for me. I'm just making some observations as someone who has worked on pretty much every Radiohead article extensively. I think you should just do what you think is best, and I'll continue to edit the article when I see areas for improvement, like I do any other article. Though if there is anything specifically you'd like my help or thoughts on, by all means ask. Popcornfud (talk) 11:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

• ✗ Fail honestly the prose and layout is too sloppy, plus there is still a reasonable amount of unreliable sources. I appreciate the effort you have put in to this article, but not every GA review passes. Best of my wishes! --K. Peake 16:26, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

New podcast interview

The producer Paul Koderie discusses the mixing and recording of The Bends (the song) in this recent podcast episode. However, I'm not sure if the podcast would meet Wikipedia requirements for reliable sources. Popcornfud (talk) 14:24, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello again Popcornfud. I enjoyed listening to this interview. In my opinion, podcasts published by unreliable sources remain reliable as long as they are recorded for someone telling a story that he or she attended and had a role in. As this podcast interview published by Apple Podcasts, which is "an audio streaming service and media player application developed by Apple Inc." Also see this talk. If you'll be ok with the source, go ahead and use it as long as it's more useful for the article. Tamer Gunner (talk) 19:38, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Also checkout this. Tamer Gunner (talk) 19:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)