Talk:Tenzing Norgay/Archive 1

Archive 1

Chomolangma

Good point about the name Pat, I assumed because the Mount Everest article said the other name was Nepalese it was the one used byt he Sherpas. I didn't realise their language is different. 22:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

"Sherpa language does not have written form"

This is an interesting statement. Regardless, Tenzin's name is Tibetan, and was given to him by a Lama, who would be literate in Tibetan Script. The sherpa for the days of the week are identical to those in Tibetan. Sherpa is Tibetan for "Easterner". Have you looked at any of the prayer flags in the Sherpa region? They are covered in.. Tibetan Script. Seen any of the books read by the Lamas of Sherpa? Tibetan Script. So, what I am wondering is what you mean by Sherpa language does not have written form, and how it applies to Tenzin Norgay, who was quite possibly born in Tshechu, in Tibet. Moreover, བསྟན་འཛིན་ནོར་རྒྱས - his name as it would be written by those Sherpas who are literate, mean "holder of the teachings" (tendzin) and "fortunate" (norgye). So, though it is True that Sharwa is also very connected to Nepali, and has it's own roots, it must be understood that the Monastaries, and all the Lamas used Tibetan - indeed, all Sharwas can understand Tibetan.(20040302 20:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)) Addendum: see Tibetan language for an entry of Sherpa.

I object to including Tenzing's name in the Tibetan script to some extent on the practical grounds that it just comes up as a line of boxes on my computer, and I suspect a lot of other people's computers. My main authority for my statements is actually Tenzing himself, I have just consulted Man of Everest. In several places he says that the Sherpa language has no written form, and he refers to Tibetan as a separate language, albeit one similar to Sherpa. When he went back to Namche Bazar in Solo Khumbu in 1952 he saw that there was now a school, but it was teaching in Nepali. So it may be that historically Tibetan was the cultural language of the small number of educated Sherpas, but even in the 1950s Nepali was taking over this role. It was also the language he knew best after his native Sherpa. Tenzing never became fully literate, but in later years he learned to sign his name in the Latin script, I am not aware he learned to sign it in any other script. So I do not consider there is sufficient justification for including his name in the Tibetan script. Why not include the Chinese version as well, since Tibet is now part of China, or Nepali or Hindi? PatGallacher 21:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Sherpa is a dialect of Tibetan in the same sense that the speech of most of the Tibetan cultural area is. In general, these are conventionally written in Classical Tibetan, even though the spoken form is significantly different. It's probably true that, traditionally, very few Sherpas were literate, but, the same can be said of Lhasa and the rest of Tibet (and, for that matter, most places). So, I don't think that writing a Sherpa's name in Tibetan is the same as writing it in Chinese or Hindi. However, in this person's case, it doesn't really seem necessary, since he was apparently not in an environment where written Tibetan was very important in his life. - Nat Krause^(Talk!) 22:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I have had a look at this link, it regards Sherpa as a language, albeit part of the Tibetan group. It appears there have recently been attempts to develop written forms of Sherpa, using the Devanagari and Tibetan scripts, but neither is widely used, although the former is more common. It's possible that the man himself would have regarded the English version as the primary written version of his name, since when he had to have dealings with people in writing it was usually in English (or other languages which use the Latin script) and this was the version which he signed. So it would be artificial to give his name in any other language. PatGallacher 10:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Pat, there is much more to this. Recently (in the last decade) the residents of Sharwa, when asked which written form they would like to use at schools, generally decided they would prefer to use Tibetan script, even though most of them are more familiar with Devanagari (from Nepali).

The domain shift away from Sherpa and Tibetan toward Nepali and English, especially in the Sharwa family home among males and young people, as well as the proliferation of new commercial situations in which Nepali language facilitates cooperation between different ethnic groups, probably indicates that Nepali is progressively replacing Sharwa among Sharwa speakers.

Future studies would ideally be empirical and diachronic, testing whether Sharwa is in reality losing ground to Nepali among younger people and in mainstream or poly-ethnic situations. Another interesting subject in Sharwa language use is whether as Fisher (1990) suggests, Sharwa emphasis on religion is intensifying, so that while the number of Nepali-preferable situations is steadily increasing, the number of Sharwa cultural religious venues using H-variety Tibetan is also increasing. Further investigation might expand and more fully characterize language-choice behavior during the post-1990 collapse of the international tourist economy and ongoing civil war.

Sherpa does indeed belong to the Tibetan group of languages, though it has many loanwords, as is found throughout the Indian subcontinent. Regardless, I continue to dispute that Sherpa has no written form: such a statement in my mind is patronising and reductive to the extreme, regardless of the author. If one wishes to be accurate, one could state that Sherpa has many cultural influences, including multiple sources for it's scripts. Regardless, up until the 1950's, it's written form was Tibetan, and since 1990 or so, the community has been decisive about re-adopting their cultural roots, in face of the strong erosion of their culture over the last 50 years or so.

The Lama that named Tenzin Norgye did so from within a particularly Tibetan stream of the Sherpa culture: Namely the Buddhist stream. FYI, the Tibetan script is recognised by China as a valid script for Chinese (Tibetan) documents.

Of course the fact that you haven't got a Tibetan font on your computer is no argument at all. (20040302 14:10, 4 May 2006 (UTC))

On further consideration I'm prepared to go along with the inclusion of the version of his name in the Tibetan script, providing it is clearly labelled as such, but anyone who knows the Devanagari script version should feel free to add it as well. PatGallacher 01:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

• Sherpa Language does have a written form. Sherpa was written in Tibetan scrpit. Still, it is written in Tibetan script in some places. However, just like Nepal Bhasa, Tamang, Limbu or any other Sino-Tibetan languages in Nepal, more people using the language know Devnagari than their respective scripts. Much of the newer and practical publications in any of the Sino-Tibetan languages are in Devnagari although some groups are dedicated to revive the other scripts as well. Also, the Government of Nepal regards Sherpa and Tibetan as a different languages and so does Government of India. These are the only two nations with significant Sherpa population and no one seems to be complaining over here. There are times when experts have to make comments about similarity and differences in two entities but that shouldnt be used as a basis of claiming non existence of an entity. Although some genetic scientists believe that humans and chimps are 99% the same genetically, you cant simply say that humans are chimps. Besides, there are languages like Hindi and Urdu which is almost the same, yet they are considered different. Also, please get out of this stereotype that Lama=Tibetan, there are tens of thousands of Nepalese lamas. Its like thinking Catholic priest=Italian. Thanks.--Eukesh 18:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

bonded_servant: There are conflicting accounts about his early life.

Yes, & the article seems to prove it by self-conflicting.

If he had spent his childhood as a slave, indentured_servant, then that should affect his other child - references.

Who had said that he had been born in May? "...weather and the crops", which he remembered from a month old? Which family named him Namgyal_Wangdi?

"wealthy-fortunate-follower-of-religion" refers to his name, how? Which word is which? In which language? On which side of which border?

His parents are listed; are these his biological parents, or his slavemaster parents?

There should be disambiguation with Victoria_Toensing & Joseph_DiGenova. As well as w/ similar words, as the spelling is not simple for everyone,.... gay,....

Tenzing_ _Norgay

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:00, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

There may be problems disentangling different accounts of his early life. Most of this is taken from his autobiography Man of Everest/Tiger of the Snows, this article may not be able to deal with this issues better until somebody has a proper look at other accounts. The references to his early life should be taken as referring to his biological parents. PatGallacher (talk) 15:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I do, hereby, thank you for that effort; however, I, as well, continue to contest all of those issues.

I did neglect to mention my inspiration, Tenzing_Hillary_Airport:

< http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7238874.stm >, Lukla airstrip, Lukla Airstrip, Lukla airstrip.

"... Lukla to Everest base camp would now be called the Tenzing Hillary Trekking Route,..."

Himalayan_Trust American_Himalayan_Foundation

"Sir Edmund and Tenzing Norgay's ascent of Everest on 29 May 1953 ushered in the second Elizabethan age, coming as the achievement did just days before the monarch's coronation. The Queen knighted Sir Edmund on his return."

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The issue of his early life and background is a confused issue, but this article is making it even more confused than I suspect it is in reality. Whatever his or his family's reasons may have been for leaving Tibet it must have been before the Chinese communist takeover.

"Norgay" is:- a) not a surname in the Western sense b) as far as I am aware either Sherpa or Tibetan (they are related) not Nepalese (a completey unrelated language) c) it raises a whole series of problems to say he only adopted it to curry favour with the Nepalese govt.. PatGallacher (talk) 18:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Birthday (again)

Britannica and others state that May 15 is his birthday, but other sites state May 29; is there any way to conclusively determine his birthday? Also, can we rectify this on the article as well as the date articles? 199.91.34.33 (talk) 14:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

This point in the article is based on "Tiger of the Snows" which unless anyone comes up with anything better is I suggest the best source we have on this at present. I don't know where these other works are getting their information from. PatGallacher (talk) 16:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Early life

This article makes some claims about his early life: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2239898,00.html Curiously, this raises the question of whether he was actually a Sherpa by birth, or a Tibetan. PatGallacher (talk) 21:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The issues about his private life need quite a bit of clarification. Whatever his reasons his family may have had for moving to Nepal when he was younger, it was well before the Chinese occupation of Tibet. it is unlikely that he changed his name to a Sherpa name to curry favour with the Nepali govt., since logically he would have changed it to a Nepali name. Can somebody consult Jamling Tenzing Norgay's account, or possibly Tashi Tenzing's? PatGallacher (talk) 19:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless someone provides clearer sources, this seems the best way of tackling his early life. PatGallacher (talk) 16:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. A serious rewrite is in order. I'll go through all my sources and make comparisons here. Give me a few days. --Bentonia School (talk) 17:12, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Norgay was a Nepali. There is no question about it. 202.79.62.21 (talk) 14:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

There are questions about it, the sources are in conflict, so we cannot state boldly one way or the otehr, no matter what you might believe. David Underdown (talk) 14:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

IPA transcription?

Can someone be so kind to add IPA transcription of his name, "Tenzing Norgay"? It would be very useful for other wikipedias to use this form in their articles. Thanks. We have a discussion in Hungarian Wkipedia on how to write his name. Misibacsi (talk) 11:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Mallory and Irvine

Did somebody hear about a well guarded secret about China having undeniable proof that Mallory and Irvine summited, and that they, the chinese, are holding the information until Sir Hillary dies, afraid that the news will upset the old man too much?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:201.19.171.206

Please sign your posts. Also, comments go at the bottom of the page, not the top. Also, how does anyone know what is contained in a well guarded secret? Also, do you think we should put Conspiracy theory cats on all of the pages you have posted this same comment too? Moriori 23:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an article about Tenzing. Neither Tenzing or Hillary would have been upset. After all, they managed to get back down again. Wallie (talk) 07:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like balderdash to me. --Bentonia School 05:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, Hillary is gone and this still sounds like balderdash to me. --Bentonia School (talk) 14:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Good article

I understand it that this article failed good article status mainly because of the lack of references. I have now made a serious attempt to improve the refs.. However this may still need more work. Also we need to do more to resolve conflicting accounts of his early life. PatGallacher (talk) 09:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

"all the photos that existed of the mountaineers on the top showed only Tenzing ..."

Can we get one? :)

I imagine it'd be fair use - practically the definition of a historic and unreproducable image! FiggyBee 12:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Tenzing said in in biography that he asked Hillary to take him a photo, but he did'nt want.

Tsch. You think they could have asked a passing tourist to do them a group shot, making use of the universal sign language for 'please can you take a photo us'. 90.193.97.18 (talk) 17:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Nationality of Earl Denman

Although described in some sources as an "Englishman," Denman was born in Canada and drifted through not just England but dozens of places in Europe, South America, Indochina, Australia, and Africa. On page 15 of his autobiography, 'Alone to Everest (Chessler Books, 1954), he writes that "childhood glimpses of the Canadian Rockies formed a lasting impression--a first link in a chain of events leading from one mountain range to another. I like to think so, for Canada was my birthplace...." True, Denman did settle in England for a while but, he writes further down the page, "[i]t is impossible for me to look with the same nostalgia towards England, for I was never happy there... although settled in England I already belonged in heart to Africa." So, I'd say "Canadian" (or even "African") is more accurate than "Englishman." 24.4.174.87 (talk) 23:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe Denman deserves his own article, where these issues can be dealt with? PatGallacher (talk) 00:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Uncited quote

The article attributes to Norgay:

If it is a shame to be the second man on Mount Everest, then I will have to live with this shame.

This was uncited, but it is probably from Norgay's autobiography. However, I was not able to verify it. I hope this note is useful. —Mark Dominus (talk) 17:46, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Other info

My grandparents, Jack and Jill Henderson, were tea-planters in Darjeeling. Jill was Secretary of the Himalayan Mountain Club, and so organised the sherpas for the various climbs. She knew them all. She said that Tenzing did not initially want to go on that particular climb: he wasn’t feeling well. So she fed him up (soup I recall), got him better and encouraged him to go… and the rest is history. In our family album we have several photos of Tenzing, and there is quite a nice black and white photo of Tenzing and another of him and Hillary from about that era. Of interest? Not sure how to load it up - perhaps someone can explain.

Another interesting part of the story, was that Nana (our name for Jill) said that the news of the conquest of Everest came to her by runner from basecamp. The message was in code and said 'The Rose Bloomed on Sunday'. She said it was decided to hold the telegram back a few days so it would coincide with the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II.

Just small parts of a much bigger story, but they may be of interest to someone. John Pons (talk) 06:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

All I can say is that mention of "Jack and Jill" on a page devoted to a person renowned for conquering very tall hills is something I shall remember to my dying day. Thank you. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I have loaded some more photos of Tenzing from the family photo collection, here... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tenzing_and_Hillary.jpg and here ... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tenzing.jpg

And here is one of my grandfather and Tenzing... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tenzing_%26_Henderson.jpg That one might also show Tenzing's wife, but I am not sure.

Might be of interest to the history buffs. John Pons (talk) 09:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Confusion about medals?

"Tenzing received either the British Empire Medal, or the George Medal from the British Government for his efforts with the expedition." Aren't there official records of this so why is there confusion? Since the sources are not available to me so could someone with access please clear this up. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 12:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Name issues

_ _ We refer to him as "Tenzing" in subsequent refs, but to his son Jamling Tenzing Norgay as "Norgay". I'm guessing that is correct, but IMO it deserves explicit discussion in the article, where some users will come for guidance beyond "this is what WP does".
_ _ The son's bio conforms to my understanding that (for him) "Norgay" is either a surname, or what he uses as his surname among those who expect everyone to have one. He lectures as "Jamling Norgay" without referring to "Tenzing" as part of his name (which makes me question the inclusion of "Tenzing" in that article's title -- tho there are an awful lot of hits for the 3-word version in the early Ghits on

Jamling Norgay

(and one must assume for

Norgay Jamling

) in the absence of quote marks. I note that National Geographic uses "Norgay" among the surnames of others of the father's party, and Amazon styles the son "Jamling T. Norgay" (and they must be aware of tricky surnames, since they never say "Sacha Cohen" for Sacha Baron Cohen, but only for a Sacha Cohen, whose books are all on painting rooms).
_ _ The implicit evidence in the accompanying article is that his (the father's) daughter's children have "Tenzing" in their names, but this is neither unambiguous (that can happen with given names in the West, and while i think the son is more Westernized than the father -- What do you eat on summit day? "Snickers, Reese's Pieces ... and tea, of course." -- both are surely more Westernized than nearly all Sherpas, so what father and son on one hand, and other descendants on the other, do does not make it clear whether he thot of himself as having a surname from birth, or having acquired one, or having pretended to have one, is far from being deducible from Nepalese customs or his descendants' custom. (Or perhaps one should hedge: "respective customs".))
_ _ I do assume that we conform to WP:UCN by using the Westernized quasi-surnames of non-Westerners (and Hungarians) who Westernize their names when dealing with native speakers of English, tho i'm not sure i've ever seen that stated explicitly.
--Jerzy•t 22:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

From his autbiography, I don't think he regarded Norgay as a surname in the western sense, although some of his descendants may have come to treat it as such. PatGallacher (talk) 21:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I have seen and heard his name as both "Tenzing" and "Tenzig" could anyone explain this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.90.118 (talk) 20:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

   Speaking in even more complete ignorance than i did above, it seems likely to me that there is a terminal phoneme in his native language that does not exist in spoken English (and probably most European languages), and that this sound is sometimes misheard by native English speakers as "almost -g" and sometimes as "almost -ng". The first step in learning your parents' language is noticing which sounds they never make in speech, and thereby finding the boundaries of the regions in "articulation space" that each constitute the range of sounds that they accept as clear forms of one phoneme. As a result, many Americans require special effort to tell the -eck- in German stecken from the -ech- in German brechen. Lybian-accented Arabic, for instance, has a still greater variety of native-distinguishable sounds in that phonemic region, which is part of the reason for there being so many Western spellings of Khaddaffi. Thus IMO there should be nothing particularly surprising about inconsistencies in spelling the end of the name that underlies Tenzing/Tenzig.
   (In confirming the above account with my love -- we are each others' primary fact checkers -- i learned of a native German who was a professional German-as-a-second-language teacher, and had described their own experience of massive drilling with "My feet are cold; I feed the colt", to approach an American accent. This must also have something to do with the word "Stadt" (i'm never sure if i distinguish it by sound or context from "Staat"!), and with the number of German surnames that end with -dt -- "Todt" comes to mind.)
   At a glance, i believe Language acquisition and Phoneme should provide better information than i can offer; they may even provide the background needed for hunting down what the IPA (and/or the customary local) notation for the final phoneme is.
--Jerzy•t 18:00, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Indianized Wikipedia

I am too tired to see everything has been 'Indianized' in wikipedia. All article every good things indians claming them. There has to be a reform of every article and get rid of indianization! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.225.253.30 (talk) 19:46, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Tenzing is Nepalese, the nepalese indian term is just made up as an article. Sorry I need to change it.Seaboy123 (talk) 21:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

@Seaboy123. If you read the paragraphs above and the more recent discussion at User_talk:Racerx11#Tenzing_Noray.27s_citizenship, you will notice that Tenzing Norgay should indeed be given the two nationalities Indian and Nepalese. This has nothing to do with the Indianization of the English Wikipedia, which I dislike and don't support. But in the case of Tenzing Norgay, even though of Nepalese origin, it is very clear that he was holder of an Indian passport and that he did consider himself as belonging to both countries. I have reverted your edits.--Pseudois (talk) 06:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Tenzing and Hillary

The summit chapter in "High Adventure" doesn't describe Hillary pulling Tenzing up any steps, not even the "Hillary Step". Nor does he describe Tenzing falling to the ground. Has anybody got a reference? Pete 02:47, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I do have a brief article from Hillary in an Everest book where he says that Tenzing had problems with his oxygen equipment on the way up, but that was resolved, and Hillary never mentions pulling Tenzing up. He does say that he cut most of the steps but not in a way that denigrates Tenzing. I think this passage should be removed unless someone can give a verifiable reference. Lisiate 22:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well. It seems a very uncharacteristic thing for Hillary to have said. (Without a reference, I find it somewhat insulting to both Tenzing and Hillary.) According to http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/hil0bio-1, Hillary authored three books in the 70's. The article only says: "In his book, Hillary ..." Cbotman 11:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read about this incident in Tenzing's own account of the climb; Tenzing says that Hilary made the 'fish' comparison in 'his book' and that Tenzing has always felt this to be unfair and inaccurate. However, this is from an abridged excerpt in an anthology; I will check further and edit my post accordingly... Summitscribbler 16:11, 26 July 2007

Tenzings view on Sir Edmund Hillary was high in respect because of the fact Hillary didn't say who made it to the top first and didn't want the fame in the only picture on the top of the mountain. so Tenzings thought very highly of Hillary. - juju — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.79.205.141 (talk) 20:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Birthday

From 29 May, he tops Everest on his birthday. Really? --Error—Preceding undated comment added 03:32, 30 August 2003‎.

The six characters "yes...", immediately following these two indented 'graphs, were added to this page (along with a line-break), as the {{unsigned}} template following them states. However, the original insertion of the six and line-break was unsigned, and inside the contribution of User:Error (thus mis-quoting and mis-contextualizing what Error wrote, and falsely attributing the "yes..."), for 3½ months (from 02:50 11 Feb 2005, until the "yes..." was moved outside Error's contrib and a link "User:68.101.247.109" added after it, quasi-sig-wise, at 00:26, 29 May 2005).
The resulting inaccurate record may have affected the Feb. '05 contrib of PatGallacher (below in this section), and that of an IP (below in the next section), respectively, reflecting in some way that inaccuracy at the times of their respective contribs.^{--Jerzy•t 05:41, 30 January 2012 (UTC)}

yes... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.101.247.109 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 11 February 2005‎

The following contribution could reflect having trusted the inaccurate record of discussion, above in this section, that existed at the time of that contribution:^{--Jerzy•t 05:41, 30 January 2012 (UTC)}

Actually, he didn't know his exact birthday, but he knew it was about late May from the weather and the crops. He decided to treat May 29th as his birthday since that was the day he climbed Everest.

PatGallacher 11:15, 2005 Feb 11 (UTC)

Then why does it say in the first sentence of this page that his birthday is May 15 if (1) his exact birthday is uncertain and (2) he decided to treat May 29th as his birthday? Both facts contradict the statement that his birthday is May 15.

Also, the sentence "he knew roughly what time of year it was from the weather and the crops" should be clarified. I assume that it was not so much that he knew (since he was a newborn at the time) but that he was told that he was born around that time of year by his family members.
—Lowellian (talk) 00:19, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Britannica.com has 15th May. Has anyone read the ED Douglas bio? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdventurousMe (talk • contribs) 07:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Who was first on summit?

The story that Tenzing ever claimed that he was first to set foot on Everest seems dubious, this is the first I have heard of it, I propose to revert soon unless someone can source this. It is unlikely that money would have influenced him. From his account in his autobioraphy, shortly after he climbed Everest there were statements put in front of him which he signed without knowing what they said, as he was illiterate. Shortly after Hillary and him issued a joint statement that they had reached the summit almost together, and a year or 2 later Tenzing was big enough to disclose that Hillary had been first to set foot. PatGallacher 14:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, everything you've said up until "a year or 2 later Tenzing was big enough to disclose that Hillary had been first to set foot" is incorrect. Tenzing Sherpa and Sir Edmund made a gentleman's agreement before Tenzing died to actually never reveal who stepped up first. In the affidavit that they both signed it stated "we summited almost together". All through his life, Tenzing never actually revealed who stepped up first. In his book, it is not clearly stated that Hillary was first, rather Tenzing was being gentle about the whole situation, especially when he said (paraphrased) "If I am the second man to have summited Everest, then that's something I'll just have to live with." Jamling Norgay states in his book Touching My Father's Soul that he questioned his father many times about who was the first, and Tenzing would always reply that he and Hillary were a team, tethered together, inseparable halves of a single whole. They did it together. Now, at the 40th Anniversary celebration of the acent in 1993, Sir Hillary broke that gentleman's agreement and stated that he was first to reach the summit. Whether this is true or not (Tenzing was dead by then), the fact that Hillary broke that agreement - not to mention the legal affidavit - is enough for me to loosen my respect for Sir Hillary. When faced with questions his whole life, either by family or media, Tenzing always refused to answer the question. That's enough for me to tighten my immense respect for Tenzing Norgay Sherpa --Bentonia School 05:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Naturally, your respect or lack thereof for Tenzing and Hillary do not go to the issue of who was first at the summit, but they're nevertheless interesting observations, Bentonia School. -- JackofOz 06:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I never assumed my opinions would be added into the article, but the facts mentioned thereof do have a place. The article states that Tenzing admitted that Hillary was first when in fact that was not actually the case, there is much more to it than that. --Bentonia School 15:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I have not read Jamling's account but I have read Tenzing and Ullman's, it is quite unambiguous, it says that Hillary was first, I have a copy somewhere, I could dig it up and give an exact quote. I am not aware of any "gentleman's agreement", or that the statements signed in 1953 were legal affadavits. PatGallacher 16:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I have Tiger of the Snows as well (hard to find, out of print [except in Nepal]; it's cool that you have a copy), and like I said, I believe Tenzing was approaching the situation gently in his publication (the article already mentions Tenzing's book quote anyway). All other accounts by Tenzing's family (except the not-so-humble Tashi Tenzing, who only cites Tigers of the Snows anyway) say that he never talked about who stepped up first as an individual, he only spoke of it as a team. Even when Tenzing visited Australia in 1964, the first question he was asked by media was "Who was really first?". Tenzing ignored the question and never even gave a response. All I'm saying is, I think it should be mentioned in the article that all other sources (some of which I've cited, and can cite more) indicate that Tenzing ignored the question his whole life, depised the question, and that it in fact became his curse. It was Hillary who broke the promised silence (legal or not, they signed those papers and agreed with one another), after Tenzing's death. The whole fact of the matter is that Tenzing took the right stance on the situation and ignored the question. As the article nicely states, Tenzing felt that it was a team effort, that no one man stepped up first, that no one would have made it without the entire team, even those down at the lower camps, and especially not without the Sherpas. --Bentonia School 04:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If Hillary mentioned he was first, that would certainly be out of characters, and diminish him. It is not important who was first. They were in reality first equal. Wallie (talk) 07:30, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It was Tenzing who first intimated that he was second ('something I'll just have to live with') and Hillary only said that he was first over a decade after Tenzing died. I don't think that diminishes either of them, or their achievement, which was itself as part of a larger expedition team. Clearly it was the proper thing to do to avoid an answer early on, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter. As agreed by both of them, Tenzing was the second man on Everest. 90.193.97.18 (talk) 17:45, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Hillary's book "High Adventure" mentioned who was first. During the final ascent along the summit ridge they took turns to lead, but it happened to be Hillary who was first on the summit. Just one of those things. --Pete (talk) 07:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

In his book, "Tenzing of Everest", written in the mid 1950s, Tenzing Norgay says unequivocally that Edmund Hillary placed his foot first on the summit of Everest, and Tenzing immediately thereafter. This was done because Hillary, a New Zealander, was a British subject and both felt more publicity would attach to Hillary after their historic accomplishment. The point is, neither could have reached the summit alone. Indeed, both Hillary and Tenzing were "first". 66.162.90.98 (talk) 16:55, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Irvin Sabrsula

The ascent of a difficult mountain is never considered to be a race by the actual members of a climbing team. If as they stated, they shared leads, then it's purely accidental and irrelevant which member of the team got to the top first - the effort is a team effort.24.108.28.165 (talk) 00:50, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Major Chapman

"For a time in the early 1940s he lived in the Princely State of Chitral (that later became a part of Pakistan on partition of India) as batman to a Major Chapman."

Something seems to be missing here. Namely, who is this mysterious Major Chapman? Tad Lincoln (talk) 04:20, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Tenzing Norgay's Birthplace & Nationality. Hello, this is American mountaineer Ed Webster, writing from my home in Maine. I participated on three Mt. Everest expeditions in the 1980s, on all 3 sides of Everest, to Everest West Ridge Direct in Nepal in 1985, and to the North side of Everest in Tibet in 1986, and the East or Kangshung Face of Everest, also in Tibet, in 1988. My autobiography is Snow in the Kingdom, My Storm Years on Everest. I would politely suggest that whomever is responsible for editing Tenzing's wikipedia page should read my book, and I would be happy to mail you a copy, if you email me ( info@mtnimagery.com ) I was present on the day in 1988 when Norbu Tenzing Norgay, Tenzing's eldest son ( older brother of Jamling Tenzing Norgay ) discovered his father's true childhood home in the village of Moyun ( or Moyey, as writer Ed Douglas wrote it ) near the central village of Kharta in Tibet, approx. 15 to 20 miles east of Mt. Everest.

I wanted to point out several inaccuracies in your write-up on Tenzing Norgay:

He was NOT born in Tengboche, Nepal, NOR was he born in the small village of Thame in Nepal.

Tenzing was born beside the holy lake of Tsechu, near the Ghang La Monastery, located to the west of Kharta, Tibet.

He was actually born relatively close -- 10 or 12 miles to the east -- of the East or Kangshung Face of Mt. Everest....from whose summit on May 29, 1953 he could just about see his own place of birth.

Tenzing, although his family moved to Thame in Nepal at an unknown date in Tenzing's youth -- no one seems to know when this move occurred, or how old Tenzing was -- technically, Tenzing never was a Sherpa. He was a full-blooded Tibetan. His parents were from the Kharta region in Tibet, and in order for Tenzing to be a true Sherpa, he needed to have been born into one of the original dozen Sherpa clans, the first Sherpa people who immigrated over the border from Tibet and settled in the Sherpa homelands ( the high mountain valleys just south of Everest / Chomolungma ) approximately 600 years ago. From my reading on the subject, if you are not descended from one of the original dozen Sherpa clans, then you are not a Sherpa. The rules of inclusion are simple, and strict.

The political and nationality difficulties Tenzing endured after his 1953 Everest ascent were caused by a variety of issues. Tenzing was illiterate. He could not read or write, but he could sign his name. Without knowing what he was signing, he signed papers thrust before him ( after his and Hillary's successful summit ) that stated that, yes, he ( Tenzing ) had reached the summit first, well in advance of Ed Hillary, and that he ( Tenzing ) was a Nepali.

This "news" of Tenzing attaining the summit first, was then reported on Nepalese radio, and in the Kathmandu newspapers. King Tribhuvan of Nepal, when he met Tenzing, Hillary, and John Hunt, the team's leader, at the royal palace in Kathmandu, presented Tenzing with the Star of Nepal medal, and complimented Tenzing, in his speech, for reaching the top first.

The statement "We reached the top almost together," was issued several days later in a Press conference in Kathmandu, held by all three men: Tenzing, Hillary, and Hunt.

Then, Tenzing had no papers, and no passport.

He was born in Tibet, which just four years earlier had been invaded by, and conquered, by the Chinese Communists. However, if Tenzing had said ( in Kathmandu in June, 1953 ) that he was Tibetan, the Chinese would have declared: Tenzing Norgay is Chinese -- He's one of us ! And that would have made "the nationality question" even worse for Tenzing.

To compound matters further, the Sherpas of Nepal, even though they themselves are of Tibetan stock, look down on their northern, Tibetan neighbors as uncouth and uneducated, not as high up the social ladder as themselves, the Sherpa people.

Thus it was through default, after his 1953 Everest ascent, that Tenzing Norgay became the most famous Sherpa of all. Although in his early years he was referred to by his 1930s British Everest climbing partners as Tensing Bhotia ( i.e., Tensing from Tibet ), later in life Tenzing began referring to himself as Tenzing Norgay Sherpa.

That he was born in Tibet, Tenzing Norgay only revealed to his family in Darjeeling -- and within the mist-enshrounded family fables he included in his autobiography, Tiger of the Snows.

However, as I stumbled upon them in the Spring of 1988, on my approach to Mt. Everest's Kangshung Face ( which my 4-man team climbed a new route up, with no 02, no radios, and not even any Sherpa climbers to assist us ), ALL of those Tenzing family legends and stories MATCHED the REAL landscape around Kharta, Moyun village, the Ghang La Meadows, and Tsechu Lake, the sacred lake on whose grassy shores Namgyal Wangdi -- later Tenzing Norgay, later Tensing Bhutia, later Tenzing Norgay Sherpa -- was born in 1914.

The true story of Tenzing's birth and childhood in Tibet appeared in my book Snow in the Kingdom in 2000, and later, in 2003 in Ed Douglas's biography of Tenzing, Hero of Everest.

This is the first time I have written to anyone at Wikipedia, and I look forward very much to hearing from you. sincerely, Ed Webster71.161.125.169 (talk) 17:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't know Tenzing's nationality but, despite contrary comments above, the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography starts off saying "Tenzing Norgay (known as Sherpa Tenzing} (1914–1986), mountaineer, was born in late May 1914 at Tsa-chu, in the Kharta valley of Tibet". I have put this in with references. If anyone became an international figure it was Tenzing. I have left alone Tenzing's own statement. It also says "At birth he was named Namgyal Wangdi, but a lama at the Rongbuk monastery, probably his uncle the Zatul Rimpoche, said he should be renamed Tenzing Norgay", which was being disputed above. Thincat (talk) 11:31, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Tenzing is pure Nepalese citizens not Indian

Tenzing Norgay is pure Nepali not Indian. Tenzing Norgay is a Nepalese Sherpa. Sherpa (Tibetan: "eastern people", from shar "east" + pa "people") are an ethnic group from the most mountainous region of Nepal, high in the Himalayas Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherpa_people Tenzing Norgay stay in India because of his work and job in India. That would in no logical manner make him Indian or Nepalese Indian. Thousands of Nepalese people every year settle in India due to problem for his job in India and Many Nepalese people work in Gorkha regiments in Indian Army, they are also stay in India. Indo-Nepal Treaty of Peace and Friendship (1950) that permits "on a reciprocal basis, the nationals of one country in the territories of the other the same privileges in the matter of residence, ownership of property, participation in trade and commerce, movement and other privileges. So many Nepalese citizens of Nepal living in India. but they are not hold citizenship of India. Tenzing Norgay stay in India is same case.

he was a Nepalese citizen at all times, and certainly he was during the 1953 ascent. Please change in Wikipedia, "He is a Nepalese Indian Sherpa". He is pure Nepalese Sherpa. Source : http://biography.yourdictionary.com/tenzing-norgay 49.244.181.182 (talk) 10:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please note that user-generated contents such as, blogs, facebook, twitter, personal/fan websites, etc. are not considered reliable sources. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 14:24, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

George Medal

Is it worth mentioning that for his part in the Mount Everest expedition, Tenzing Norgay was awarded the George Medal? Davery06 18:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

No one cares Davery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.18.45.22 (talk) 14:10, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Tenzing Norgay's nationality

I see much of the conversation below has devolved from actual discussion to mudslinging and insulting people of a particular nationality. The truth is, as pointed out, nationality is a European concept and nations have been principally based on language, religion, amongst other things. The thing to point out here is that Mr. Norgay travelled to the UK on an Indian passport, although was born in Nepal - although this has also been disputed and he had been mum about it - as there was belief he was born in Tibet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.82.44.90 (talk) 12:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I asked this question on Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities but didn't get a concrete answer. Jay 10:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Which country did Tenzing Norgay belong to ? Was he Nepalese, Chinese (Tibetan) or Indian ? Did he ever change his citizenship officially ? What was his nationality during the time when he scaled the Everest ? Jay 11:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC) when he summiters Mount Everest his citizenship actually Nepalese so he is Nepali Mountian Climber please change in wikipedia page he is Indian Mountainer. he is later received indian passport for his problem to receipt Nepalese passport. He is Nepali Mountainer. His Nationality his fully Nepali.

The article you link says it all, really - he was Nepalese, although there were occasional rumours that he may have actually been Chinese. He lives some of his life in India. To the best of my knowledge, he was a Nepalese citizen at all times, and certainly he was during the 1953 ascent. Grutness...wha? 12:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I guess so too, but several General Knowledge and text books say he was the first 'Indian' to scale Everest. Jay 03:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The short answer to this is that this question may not have a concrete answer, it may be an example of trying to impose Western concepts like "nationality" on non-Western societies. Tenzing himself said later that this was not an issue at the time he climbed Everest, he had never owned a passport before this. After he climbed Everest, Nepal and India both claimed them as his own, and he said he belonged to both of them. The technical answer may be that he had dual nationality (or possibly even triple nationality). PatGallacher 21:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that will do for me, since I was wondering if Norgay should be included in List of firsts in India. But isn't the concept of nationality universal as opposed to western ? Perhaps citizenship is a western concept, but even that may not be true. Jay 08:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Tenzing said himself, "In a way, Tibet is the home of my spirit, but as a living man I am a stranger there. Mountains are my home but one does not build his house and raise his family on a peak or glacier. Solu Khumbu was once my home but I am now only an occasional visitor. Today my home is Darjeeling." He carried no passport at any time as Tibetans, Nepalis, and Indians didn't - and still don't - require passports to enter any of these nations. They can pass freely across the borders. When Tenzing went to other nations, he most likely was allowed passport-gratis entry as he was always a guest of some political or social dignitary. The idea of nationality was not within him, he was a Sherpa, and that's all that mattered. Of course, such free ideology would, unfortunately, not fly today. --Bentonia School 05:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. I do see the point there, but we would need to decide. Do we give individuals whatever nationality they themselves choose? What if this is, 'none'? Doesn't help the encyclopedia much. Is nationality a choice, like religion? Could I choose (if I had a wikipedia entry) to be 'Martian'? When we say 'nationality', do we actually mean 'citizenship'? I suspect that citizenship is an objective state that could have been discovered by due process: had there been a legal dispute involving Norgay, I'm pretty sure that he would have been recorded as Nepalese in a court of law. The absence of a passport does not mean that he lacked citizenship. He may have formally taken Indian citizenship later, but could also still have kept Nepalese citizenship. In international law, I understand that you are generally assumed to have the nationality of your father unless there are facts showing otherwise. 90.193.97.18 (talk) 17:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

As mentioned in the wikipedia article about Sherpa,they "are an ethnic group from the most mountainous region of Nepal, high in the Himalayas. Sherpas migrated from eastern Tibet to Nepal within the last 300–400 years". As a sherpa who was born in Nepal, Tenzing Norgay clearly was Nepali. He later did move and settle to India mainly because of his health issues. That would in no logical manner make him Indian or Indian Nepali. Thousands of Nepali people every year settle in India due to health issues as there are better hospitals and facilities in India. Just because he lived and settled his 2nd half of his life in India, can he ever be an Indian. Since Tenzing Sherpa who became the first person to climb the tallest mountain in the world with Hillary, he is a highly valued person in the world. Every Nepalese in the world is proud to have been from the country as Tenzing.

India who are often known as the "bullies" in the South Asia due to their unlimited power over small countries like Nepal and Bhutan, they often steal valuables from these countries. Many Indians are still taught to this day that Mount Everest is in India eventhough it is nowhere close to India, they are still taught that Buddha was born in India (they have even created a fake Lumbini) even though UNESCO has clearly indicated that Buddha was in Lumbini Nepal. Just because Indians declared Buddha to have been in India, does not mean Buddha was born in India and similarly just because Indians declared Tenzing as an Indian, does not make him Indian.

I am baffled that I am trying to explain why Tenzing Norgay is Nepali and not Indian Nepali nor Indian. I just don't understand why he would be an Indian. He was born in Nepal, he was raised in Nepal and his ancestors are Nepalese. When did he ever become an Indian???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.11.73.60 (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Look at the article Nepali Indian it begins "are people who are citizens or full time residents of India whose ethnic origins lie fully or partially in the South Asian nation of Nepal" - in what way does this not fit Tenzing Norgay? Note that it puts Nepali first, fully acknowledging his origins, but also the place where he spent much of his life. David Underdown (talk) 17:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Before editing the article on Tenzing Norgay, it was said that Tenzing Norgay is Indian Nepali not Nepali Indian (if that makes any difference) like his son is stated in his wikipedia entry. Secondly, I am disagreeing that Tenzing was a "citizen or full time residents of India." It would nice if you site any website that states that Tenzing Norgay was Nepali Indian. I have lived outside Nepal my entire life but that doesn't mean i am not Nepali!!!

I understand that there are many Nepali Indians in India like Prashant Tamang who is probably more famous in Nepal then he is in India. However, Tenzing is not one of them and nor his Manisha Koirala who recently returned to Nepal and married to a Nepali. When Tenzing Climbed Everest, he climbed it as a Nepali and that is how he should be identified. Secondly it would be nice if you could site the definition of Nepali Indian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PrashannaT (talk • contribs) 18:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

According to http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/dec/24/books.booksnews his nationality was already subject to wrangling at the time he climbed Everest, and he subsequently held an Indian passport. So I'm even more convinced that Nepali Indian is the most accurate description we are going to find. David Underdown (talk) 20:31, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

If you have a copy I suggest you check; Maurice Isserman and Stewart Weaver, Fallen Giants: A History of Himalayan Mountaineering from the Age of Empire to the Age of Extremes, p. 184-186. [I'll try and rack up some other sources for you later, prolly tomorrow.]

A PDF listing all ascents of Everest can be found here; http://www.8000ers.com/cms/en/everest-general-info-185.html Tenzing is listed as an Indian Sherpa.

Liz Hawleys Himalayan Database has the Everest 1953 expedition under record-ID "EVER-531-01" [Spring 1953] and it lists Tenzing as member number 14, Indian citizen, summited 29/05/1953, 11.30h

Hope this helps a wee bit. Qwrk (talk) 21:42, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

song about Norgay

there is song about norgay can you add this in legacy section and song is called Hamro [Our] Tenzing Sherpa le Chadyo Himal Chuchura by Dharmaraj Thapa.

• http://kathmandupost.ekantipur.com/printedition/news/2012-06-06/an-ascent-to-remember.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.150.237.19 (talk) 15:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in contributing to the article. I am doubtful that the song is noteworthy. In any event, a brief mention at the very end of an op-ed column doesn't help very much. Obviously, Tenzing Norgay is a major figure among various populations, and there are many cultural references to him. It is challenging to keep his article from being a repository of random factoids and trivial references. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 19:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Tenzing Norgay. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080216030022/http://www.unlockingthearchives.rgs.org/resources/documents/Reaching%20the%20Top3.pdf to http://www.unlockingthearchives.rgs.org/resources/documents/Reaching%20the%20Top3.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150105000323/http://www.amarchitrakatha.com/us/tenzing-norgay to http://www.amarchitrakatha.com/us/tenzing-norgay/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091107023230/http://www.mountaineeringbooks.org/index.html to http://www.mountaineeringbooks.org/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:54, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Tenzing norgay Nationality (Reaching a consensus)

Source : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_Indo-Nepal_Treaty_of_Peace_and_Friendship#:~:text=The%201950%20India-Nepal%20Treaty,the%20two%20South%20Asian%20neighbours. See article 7 of the above source go to "Text of treaty" which proves that he as a nepali citizen was working there for job. https://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/nepal-refuses-to-honour-tenzing-norgay_76513.html Prime minister Nehru gave him honorary passport shortly after he climbed the mount everest the above link is the source. So Tenzing norgay never had the Indian citizenship. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3504795 Also in above link edmund hillary was also made honorary citizen by Nepal that doest mean he was Nepali-Newzealnder So just by giving honory passport or citizenship shortly after ascending the mountain doesnt make them of other country. So With this sources it is clear that Sir edmund hillary is Newzealnder and Tenzing Norgay is Nepalease. He has been Nepalese citizen all throughout his life and he was born in Nepal.And I also explaoned how honorary citizemship/Passports dont count. I dont know if this doesn't convince you what will. Also I have put this similar text in the "Tenging norwat is pure nepalese sherpa section also"

So India just did what Nepal did to edmund hillary giving honorary citizenship/passport, But it doesnt change the fact that Edmund hillary is Newzealander and Tenzing norgay is Nepalese Swtadi143 (talk) 18:59, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india/sikkim-makes-settlers-second-class-citizens/story-2kSG6t8mWswu7GjSOPYuzJ.html#:~:text=In%201961%2C%20the%20king%20of,territory%20and%20similarly%20situated%20person.&text=%E2%80%9CIn%201991%2C%2073%2C431%20people%2C,Nepalese%2C%20got%20Indian%20citizenship.%E2%80%9D

Above link is source, In 1961, the king of Sikkim — (which later became the became a part of India in 1975) — passed the Sikkim Subjects Regulation (SSR) act. The Regulation defined a Sikkimese as one who was born within its territory and similarly situated person. Settlers from India were not included in the SSR registry because they did not want to give up their Indian citizenship. So in kingdom of sikkim the criteria of being Sikkim subject regulation (SSR) started from 1961- 1975 before that nobody had any form of documentation to show that they are sikkimese they were no documents prior to 1961 it was just randoml settling there and earning money, And after 1975 when kingdom of sikkim merged with india all people who had Sikkim subject regulation (SSR) paper from 1961 act received Indian citizenship, So tenzing norgay only had SSR FROM 1961 at that time it was independt kingdom with independent citizenship which is Sikkim subject regulation (SSR) and later in 1975 he received indian citizenship, so before 1961 he only had nepal citizenship and he recevied the honorary Indian passport days after he climbing mount everest from nehru whic doesnt count cause edmund hillary also recevied honorary nepali citizensip from Nepal days after climbing miunt everest. So it is clear that in no way he was a sikkim subject or indian citizen from (1914-1960) only after 1961. So he is a Nepalese and he was nepalese during the first ascent mount everest. Only after 1961-1975 he can be said having dual citizen with both Nepal and independent sikkim and then from 1975-1986 onward both India and Nepal citizenship. http://sikkimnow.blogspot.com/2015/10/so-many-kinds-of-sikkimese.html?m=1 See here in the source/this source is only to look the picture of SSR for the reliable document/website of the text of sikkim subject regulation (SSR) it is in the fourth link of this "tenzing norgay consensus section"you can read this website too but the 4th link is better reliable for SSR info since this is a blogspot but the the paper picture of this blogsport is authentic the information also can be read but its not in that structural manner but nonetheless it is also correct like the fourth link in this page above just above the blogspot link, there is a picture in this 5th link/blogspot link that is the independent sikkim citizenship or identity paper during the independent kingdom of sikkim, It was only started from 1961-1975, Prior to 1961 there was no way to show your identity or cotizenship because there was no system like that. So it is clear at the time he first ascented mount everest for whom he is known to the world he we clearly a nepali born and nepali citizen at the time of ascent so he is Nepalese. So I would like the Senior users to let me change the name from Indian-Nepali in tenzing norgay wikipedia page to Nepal-born sherpa mountaineer to be exact and objectice with the clear evidences of he being Nepalese and no relation with sikkim and India at the time of first ascent. Hope you reply to this soon and say you agree or not. Ok I am done, I have given too many sources and explanations to prove that Tenzing norgay was Nepali.Hope the editors/Senior users review this and we will get the right consensus.

-Hope we reach the consensus.

Wikipedia already has. @Swtadi143:, when you removed the word India from the article you also removed the link that settled the matter -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Racerx11/Archive_1#Tenzing_Noray.27s_citizenship Read it, and understand that if you again remove the word Indian, you risk being blocked from editing Wikipedia. Moriori (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2020

nationality is nepali but indian-nepali is written..... Rishavdevpaudel (talk) 10:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 13:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Tenzing's Birthplace

Tenzing Norgey Sherpa was born in Namche-7 Thame, Solukhumbu, Nepal.

Do you have good authority for this? There was some controversy about this, unless it was properly resolved we should not state a definitive answer. PatGallacher 12:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

does being born in solukhumbu as a kid count :). But then again if you have a better fact then it would be cool to know. Realnepal 17:28, 5 December 2005 (UTC)realnepal

You should refer to Ed Wester's book "Snow in the Kingdom" (2000). He attempted to climb Mount Everest from the Eastern (Kangshung) Face in 1988 and travelled with Norbu Tenzing Norgay, the eldest of Tenzing Norgay's sons. After finding relatives and place names (consistent with his father's childhood stories) in the Kharta Valley, Norbu pretty much proved exactly where in Tibet his father was born. csearl 17:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

In Tenzing's book Tiger of the Snows he clearly indicates that he remembered being told by his mother that they used to visit the Ghang-La monastery east of Kharta in the Rapchu Valley (this was in fact the monastery whose lama named Tenzing "Namgyal Wangdi" - his first name). Tenzing's mother, Mingma, was from the hamlet of Moyey, in the Kharta region, and by family accounts, Tenzing was indeed born in this region, most likely nearer, or even at, the monastery itself than in Moyey. Regarding all of this though, it should be stated in the article Tenzing's feelings about his nationality:

In a way, Tibet is the home of my spirit, but as a living man I am a stranger there. Mountains are my home but one does not build his house and raise his family on a peak or glacier. Solu Khumbu was once my home but I am now only an occasional visitor. Today my home is Darjeeling.

By accounts, Tenzing was a Sherpa and that was all that was important to him. Oh, I think it should be mentioned in the article that the name of the Norgay household in Darjeeling is "Ghang-La", after the monestary. --Bentonia School 05:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

NEW - FOR EDITORS. The statement about his birthplace, attributed to the biography Man of Everest by James Ramsay Ullman, is incorrect. The current wiki article states "There are conflicting accounts of his early life. The account he gave in his autobiography, accepted for several years, is that he was a Sherpa born and raised in Tengboche, Khumbu, in northeastern Nepal.[5]" BUT I own a copy of the book and on page 32 it actually says "It has often been said that I was born in the village of Thamey, but that is not quite right. My family lived in Thamey, and I grew up there, but I was born in a place called Tsa-chu, near the great mountain Makalu. ........ my mother had gone there on a pilgrimage to the monestery of Ghang La". PLEASE CORRECT THE WRONG ATTRIBUTION. Should this bok also be a key reference source?

I want a citation for the claim that the head lama of Rongbuk monestary named Tenzing. I have other citations, from Tenzing and his family that he was named by the lama at Ghang-La monastery. --Bentonia School (talk) 05:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

ODNB gives Rongbuk and we have to go with verifiable (published) sources, per policies (WP:V, WP:OR). David Underdown (talk) 11:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but it seems suspect. --Bentonia School (talk) 17:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

NEW In the autobiography with James Ramsey Ullman from 1954, Tenzing relates regarding the name change that "one day I was brought to a great lama from Rongebuk", and he proposed the name change. He does not say definitively where the lama was at the time, but clearly a lama of Rongebuk.

Yes I agree and this is where my recent edit in early life section was, So it seems the consensus is already reached about where he was born and my edit on main page is justified. Administrator give me tick or cross please , also Yeah i was wrong i shouldnt have changed Indian at the first place, I respect your order thanks for not blocking me at first instance of jusdging/giving me a chance and warning me first. Hope in future if I do similar mistake in other pages you warn me first because I never repeat mistakes after I am warned I am human and everynody makes mistake once. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swtadi143 (talk • contribs) 11:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2021

can I edit Tenzing Norgay? 168.69.254.240 (talk) 15:18, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Primary sources?

There is a suggestion that this article is too reliant on primary sources, presumably this refers mainly to his autobiography, ghost written by James Ramsey Ullman. However this is cited 11 times, in an article with 67 references I don't think this is excessive. How does this compare with a lot of other articles on people with autobiographies? We also have to consider the possibility that Tenzing's life before 1953 may not be particularly well documented, and whatever other sources say it may be ultimately traced back to what Tenzing told people. Also, Norgay is not a surname. PatGallacher (talk) 10:04, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Don't think the sourcing here is anywhere near an article-wide problem. Tagging individual instances is okay (although I would have forgone even that) but the article as a whole is not overly reliant on primary sources. Nor is the {{refimprove}} warranted, IMO. This is a well-referenced article that could stand slight improvements in individual sources, albeit it seems unlikely that better sourcing exists for some of these details. These tags were added yesterday by Bumbubookworm, maybe they can comment. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:33, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2021

Tenzing norgay is Nepalese , not nepalese indian. No one in his family is indian. Nepal is an independent country. Dont connect him name with India. He is pride of sherpa

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terasail^[✉️] 14:53, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Death

The following contribution could reflect having trusted the inaccurate record of discussion, above in the preceding section, that existed at the time of that contribution:^{--Jerzy•t 05:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)}

idk 2001:D08:DB:98A2:140A:AFC2:BF4D:1FC4 (talk) 10:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Some mystery surrounds his death in this article. Could someone please elaborate? User:218.214.49.92

It seems to be fully sourced, with no mystery whatsoever? What do you think is in doubt? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Order of the Star of Nepal

Why is the Order of the Star of Nepal considered to be "dickering"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:27, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Seconded. This edit, and more so the edit summary, baffles me. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)