Talk:Taron Egerton

Welsh

He was born in England, to English parents, and now lives in England. He may have spent part of his childhood in Wales, and speak some Welsh Gaelic, but that does not make him Welsh. That he considers himself Welsh does not make him Welsh.Royalcourtier (talk) 21:44, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

"That he considers himself Welsh does not make him Welsh." Actually yes it does, since English, Scottish and Welsh hold no official status and are national identities, that would make him Welsh. Please refer to the Wikipedia essay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Nationality_of_people_from_the_United_Kingdom for more details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sellsomepapers (talk • contribs) 15:22, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Bit late but anyway, since I saw a recent discussion in the talk page for Tilda Swinton's article on her identification, while this is true for Taron Egerton since he grew up in Wales, I'd also like to point out that self-identification alone isn't enough to determine which country they are from or are associated with, its the amount of time they spend in that country which determines if they are from there or not and if they have spent enough time in that country, then it does justify their self-identifying. The reason why self-identifying alone isn't enough is because anybody can claim a certain identification even if they are ideally from another country.

For example, Tilda Swinton has claimed she is Scottish due to her ancestry, but she was born in England, grew up there and has only lived in Scotland during her adulthood so despite her self-identification, she is technically English (one of the reasons why her article states she is British instead). Its also like some Americans claiming they are Irish due to their ancestry but if they have lived mostly in, and grown up in, the USA, they still officially are American despite how they consider themselves. On the other hand, Taron considering and identifying himself as Welsh is more justified as like I've said previously, he spent the majority of his time in, and grew up in, Wales (alongside having some Welsh ancestry, speaking Welsh and having a slight Welsh twang when speaking English) even if he was born in England and resides there now, so I am okay with the article saying he is Welsh (even though British is also acceptable). Broman178 (talk) 15:31, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

If he was born in Birkenhead, he’s a scouser.

scousers aren’t Welsh.

Ergo, he’s a scouser who lived in wales. 2A02:C7C:9858:DC00:B08B:B4C2:93E7:926D (talk) 11:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Welsh isn't Gaelic; they are entirely distinct languages. 20:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aredbeardeddwarf (talk • contribs)

Yeah I just came to this page to ask about this. He speaks with the accent but is pretty much English. I guess it doesn't matter too much since they use the same passports and citizenship, but it's an odd one. HughMorris15 (talk) 16:09, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

One of the sources linked in the article includes this quote: '“All my friends are Welsh, I speak Welsh, and I feel very Welsh,” he said.' Cythraul (talk) 10:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Well while he lives in London now and spent some of his earlier years in Merseyside, he still spent most of his life in Wales so that to me does make him Welsh (along with the fact that he can speak the Welsh language conversationally and regards himself as Welsh). John Rhys-Davies is probably a similar matter because he was born in England like Taron but is also regarded as Welsh while conversely Christian Bale was born in Wales but is regarded as English. So to me, just because Taron was born in England and lives there now doesn't automatically mean he is English however opinions on the matter can vary. So since this matter is quite confusing to some people, I would definitely would suggest changing it to "British" similar to Gordon Ramsay and Tilda Swinton (as both could be regarded as either English or Scottish) because that would perhaps be the best way to resolve this issue as Wales is part of Britain and the UK. Broman178 (talk) 18:42, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. I've boldly changed it to "British actor and singer of Welsh extraction", which covers both. Carlstak (talk) 18:56, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I think this matter needs to be solved. I have tried to change his nationality to British a couple of times to solve the dispute, only to see him reverted back to either Welsh or English. Surely common sense says he should simply be labelled as British, right? Scf1985 (talk) 04:04, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes Tshepang Med Hox Mtshepose (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps:”......is an English actor who identifies as Welsh despite having a very tenuous link to Welsh ancestry, the pretentious little turd” might satisfy everyone? Kentish 7 September 2019 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.133.61 (talk) 18:52, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Individuals may identify more closely with being "British" or with being "English", "Irish, "Northern Irish", "Scottish" or "Welsh" per WP:UKNATIONALS, and he clearly identifies more closely with being Welsh. Furthermore, a plethora of reliable sources also regard Egerton as Welsh, therefore, we should adhere to MOS:ROLEBIO and describe him in the lead sentence as he is commonly described in reliable sources. KyleJoan^talk 03:12, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I disagree. The UKNATIONALS guideline is to use ethnic identities where reasonable – but is not actually a policy. In Egerton’s case as in several others the issue is hazy because his opinion is not directly supported by the sourced info on his background. There is an understanding on WP that we don’t call people born in Scotland “English” or any other combination because it invites repeated vandalism from offended anonymous readers – who usually care nothing for consistency or policies. The default “British” should be used for instances of doubt. Kylejoan has edited the article today, claiming that this talk page consensus supports using Welsh. Looking through the comments I dispute that and prefer it to go to what it was earlier and what this consensus says – “British”.--Politovsky (talk) 15:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

The article does not say "Welsh" based on his opinion; it does so based on the support of the six ten reliable sources cited. It seems to me that you're simply suggesting that he's not Welsh enough, which contradicts the aforementioned reliable sources. Regarding vandalism from offended anonymous readers, we deal with those through protection of the article when necessary, not through compromising policies and guidelines to concede to their disruption. Speaking of policies and guidelines, I just cited one above, and for the sake of adhering to it, would you mind providing reliable sources that regard Egerton as British to see how many of them do so, Politovsky? KyleJoan^talk 02:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

At this late stage the issue seems to have been resolved. It's still worth making this observation about UK nationality (based, as it is, on a statement by User:Escape_Orbit in the talk page of the article about Susan Calman:

• This is not Taron Egerton's passport.
• Do not change a person's nationality on a WP article without good reason.
• Passports, Citizenships, Places of Birth are not good reasons to change a person's nationality because UK Nationality is a complex thing and cannot be made into a "one size fits all" checklist.
• "Because I prefer it to be based upon a person's life or the amount of <nationality> a person seems to have" are not good reasons to change his nationality.
• The stated preference of the subject IS a good reason and better than all other reasons.

This is not as complex an issue as some seem to believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:EA01:1090:8944:B8:AC61:201 (talk) 16:05, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Tenor

I assume that Taron can sing, and from the article appears to be a tenor. Perhaps he can also dance - and entirely different skill. But what does "He is a tenor through music and dance, specialising in stage combat" mean??Royalcourtier (talk) 21:46, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

He's a singer and has a tenor voice, but "specialising in stage combat" is not accurate. Johnny Rose 11 (talk) 12:05, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Place of Birth

There have been multiple recent changes to the article to change the place of Egerton's birth (at least three different places in the cursory review I made, including Penrith, Birkenhead, and Liverpool), but no reliable sources have been cited to substantiate the varying claims. I'm going to remove the place of birth with an edit comment to direct folks here for those who want to discuss it. If you have a reliable source, then feel free to add it in. – 108.56.139.120 (talk) 21:03, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

A coincidence? Interesting, either way.

Is there any correlation between Egertons's Johnny singing "I'm Still Standing" in Sing, and Egerton getting the role of Elton John in Rocketman? I think it's possible there's a connection. He certainly did a great job in Sing. If it's a coincidence, it's a pretty big one, IMO. Jororo05 (talk) 16:22, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

RfC about the first sentence

Should the first sentence describe Egerton as British, English or Welsh? KyleJoan^talk 03:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• Welsh per my comments above. We would also need ten reliable sources to support "British" and "English" to avoid giving them undue weight. KyleJoan^talk 04:14, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh or British. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 08:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh We should respect his identity. (Summoned by bot) --I dream of horses (Contribs) Please notify me if replying off my talk page. Thank you. 10:59, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh ~ HAL333 21:08, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• British/Welsh - We would also need ten reliable sources to support "British" You really shouldn't make this an issue of counting sources, as there are multiple reliable sources that do describe him as British. He was born in Birkenhead, and moved to Aberystwyth when he was 12, so he was born in England. MOS:OPENPARABIO advises we use their birth place in the opening paragraph. But MOS:IDENTITY says use the term that the person uses – he was born in England... Egerton considers himself to be Welsh - so my suggestion is we use that terminology in the lead. And on a side note, Wales is part of the UK, so his passport will list him as a British citizen. Isaidnoway (talk) 04:30, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

SOURCES

• (1) British actor Taron Egerton Rolling Stone
• (2) British actor Taron Egerton Los Angeles Times
• (3) British actor Taron Egerton Chicago Tribune
• (4) British actor The Independent
• (5) British actor Taron Egerton Variety
• (6) British actor Billboard
• (7) British actor USA Today
• (8) British actor CNN
• (9) British actor Cosmopolitan
• (10) British actor Vogue
• (11) British actor Vanity Fair
• (12) young British actor The Wrap
• (13) British actor Taron Egerton ScreenRant

• If we are to give all of these factors equal weight, then wouldn't we write "British/English/Welsh"? My intention was to show that "Welsh" carries the most weight in reliable sources–which I can verify by providing more of them if need be, but even without counting, "Welsh" is supported by sources, and meets IDENTITY; "British" is supported by sources; "English" meets OPENPARABIO. Since there isn't a guideline to generally regard people born in England as British (and give the term more weight), shouldn't we favor "Welsh"? KyleJoan^talk 09:31, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

My suggestion is we use British born, Welsh actor. That terminology is compliant with MOS:OPENPARABIO, MOS:IDENTITY, WP:NPOV and WP:VERIFY. Whatever the outcome of this RfC is, I support WP:CONSENSUS. Isaidnoway (talk) 11:17, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

• Maybe English-born, Welsh actor? – 108.56.139.120 (talk) 02:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Sock comments and discussion thereof --Blablubbs|talk 23:12, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
British as that looks like a previous consensus that was overridden by later edits. In addition although some compromises are suggested above these are illogical as saying Welsh-British or some such combination of regional and citizen identity is a tautology (and uneducated as British is the original meaning of Welsh). Finally the sources favour the use of British which should be default for all UK citizens.--Muirofsara (talk) 10:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC) "should be the default for all UK citizens". According to who? It clearly isn't the default. I don't know if there is a MoS guideline for UK citizens or not, but clearly if one exists it doesn't apply to those from Northern Ireland, following the Good Friday Agreement, and there are thousands of BLPs about "Scottish actors", "English football players" and "Welsh singers". BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 10:52, 25 January 2021 (UTC) Default when there is uncertainty, overlap or a lack of references about the subnational identities used in the article. According to - well, exactly the same principle used in WP for every other country of the world.--Muirofsara (talk) 12:03, 25 January 2021 (UTC) Again, clearly not the default - look at the Tom Jones disambiguation page, for example :-) BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 13:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC) British - due to conflicting information in the sources. It can be added in the article that he resides within Wales (as for some other subjects) and identifies himself as or feels Welsh as that is a notable part of his personal life. This article should be handled as neutrally as possible so as not to to pander to nationalist POV - a problem with many subjects who come from Scotland and whose articles are repeatedly edited by anon IPs to focus on this.--Politovsky (talk) 13:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

• Welsh per KyleJoan - Idealigic (talk) 13:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh per KyleJoan, or alternatively English-born Welsh. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 13:33, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
• British abundant sources for this and agree with above points that day British. Hybrid terms like english-welsh are too awkward and overblown for someone with single citizenship anyway. Capristic (talk) 12:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh because from the looks of it most sources call him as such in addition to him considering himself as such, though British (second choice) is also encompassing.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
• Actually there are just as many that use British as Welsh - and as has been stated elsewhere counting sources is unproductive because there are so many mirror sites that copy content which inflates any total. Just look at all the copycat sites that use text taken straight out of Wikipedia.--Politovsky (talk) 11:32, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
• British as it's the only term that covers all equally; calling him Welsh ignores the fact that he is from England and calling him English ignores the fact that he likes to project himself as Welsh. In all honesty if we try to just call him Welsh we could have an unworkable system on WP where we try to fudge on all British nationality issues.--Politovsky (talk) 11:32, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
• Struck some sock comments, please see w:en:Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mevagiss. Blablubbs|talk 23:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Welsh: I am myself Welsh and I don't see his self-identification as anything out of the ordinary. As far as I'm concerned, if you've some connection to Wales (especially formative years) and consider yourself Welsh, then you are.Humbledaisy (talk) 23:42, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
• "British-born, Welsh" seems to be the most consistent with WP rules already stated above; accepted naming practices; and most of the non-sock responses. So I've amended it accordingly. As we are an encyclopedia, it's also the most factually accurate answer. X4n6 (talk) 08:07, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
  • Your comment does not change the existing consensus, so your amendment was inappropriate. Please generate a new consensus to implement your proposed change. KyleJoan^talk 08:09, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

    @KyleJoan: That "consensus" is over 2 years old. Nor was it overwhelming. I actually read all the comments. And with the exception of the socks, several supported the very edit I made. So why you're pretending that it's so foreign to the conversation is beyond me. It also does not excuse the fact that you reverted several reliably sourced edits which had nothing to do with the consensus issue. You need to discuss each concern here, not wholesale revert. That behavior is inappropriate, uncivil and an invitation to a problem. X4n6 (talk) 08:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• I suggest that you re-review WP:SATISFY. Your changes were reverted. You've had the same opportunity to discuss as I have. It's concerning that you believe there is a consensus for your edit and that there's an expiration date for a consensus. Please feel free to get an uninvolved user to formally close this discussion if you need clarity on what the actual consensus is. KyleJoan^talk 08:29, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• Actually, I suggest you review WP:CCC. If all you can do is invoke a 2 year old, narrow "consensus" which was largely opinion-based not fact based - and are incapable or unwilling to contribute more than that one issue, then I suggest you further review WP:CO, in addition to a few others I could enumerate. Now my last original comment was that calling him a "British-born, Welsh actor" was "the most factually accurate answer." As you must know, he was born in Britain, but considers himself Welsh, as that's where he grew up. But he does not deny being born in England. So since that is a factually accurate statement - as well as one that has multiple RS, and one that is consistent with WP policy and practice, if you have an reason why the lede shouldn't say that, then discuss that rationale. 08:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• Thank you for proposing a change to the current consensus and admitting that there is still no new consensus. Good luck with this proposed change. KyleJoan^talk 09:00, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

• So despite CCC and the invitation to discuss your position, you've made it clear you have nothing more you wish to add. So be it. I'll happily discuss with anyone willing to engage in collaborative editing. But wholesale reverts of my RS edits is neither constructive, nor defensible. So if you do it again, I'll see you at ANI. X4n6 (talk) 09:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

How many sources are needed to describe him as a singer?

Seems that he's widely accepted as a singer and has performed multiple roles that involve singing and musical performances with Elton John. So how many sources are required to confirm this? Johnny Rose 11 (talk) 12:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Taron

Sori, ond dwy “taron” ddim yn thunder; mae’n “taran”. Mae taron fel “strike” ynte 58.104.114.30 (talk) 23:02, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Agree, the welsh word for thunder is "taran", not "taron" - in fact "taron" is not a Welsh word at all.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/taran#Welsh Jdjones1984 (talk) 11:26, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. There was a cited source that made this claim, but that source is mistaken. The Hollywood Reporter is not a reliable source when it comes to the Welsh lexicon. Taron doesn't mean anything in Welsh. Taran is the Welsh word for "a thunderclap"; the plural taranau is used to mean "thunder". I've removed the claim now. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:30, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2023

Is an English actor 92.233.222.18 (talk) 16:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see discussion above about this. Nthep (talk) 16:25, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

“Starred in Cock”

This is not accurate, not only was he the supporting role (only one role has a name), but he quickly and dramatically dropped out before opening. 2603:7000:A703:C99C:4CBF:1AF2:8AE0:F965 (talk) 05:03, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Early Career Pre-Films

Stage career; "The Last of the Haussmanns" was at the National Theatre, directed by Sir Nicholas Hytner with Julie Walters, he performed there the summer he graduated.

He was also at the Royal Court, https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2013/jan/17/no-quarter-review

In 2011, while a student, he was winner of a prestigious award by the Stephen Sondheim Society. Stephen Sondheim Society Student Performer of the Year-

https://www.sondheimsociety.com/2011

In 2007, while at school, he was already playing the lead in "Little Shop of Horrors."

http://www.theatre-wales.co.uk/reviews/reviews_details.asp?offset=3075&reviewID=2892

Beirniad33 (talk) 09:10, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

She Rides Shotgun

A future movie that's going to start filming in 2024, they have a SAG-AFTRA Interim agreement. Taron Egerton will play the lead role, and the movie is an adaptation of Jordan Harper's novel. Taron Egerton is also set to serve as executive producer.

Source: https://deadline.com/2023/10/taron-egerton-movie-she-rides-shotgun-black-bear-afm-1235583974/

78.242.96.156 (talk) 07:06, 27 October 2023 (UTC)