Talk:Swahili people

My view on this subject has changed since I started this topic.

I've long been wondering: Did the Swahili have another religion before Islam? Gringo300 19:02, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but I remember reading at the House of Wonders in Zanzibar that the religion of the Swahili was a unique blend of Islam and traditional African beliefs, a result of the fusion of Arab and African culture. But if the Arabic influence is one of the defining characteristics of the Swahili, I don't think you can really say they had another religion before Islam. — Matt Crypto 15:28, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I've done a good bit of research on the Swahili since the first post and my view of this subject is a lot different now. I've read that the Swahili are mixed Black and Arab. If that is the case, it would make sense that the Swahili would be predominantly Muslim. An important question here is: When did Arabs first become predominantly Muslim? Gringo300 (talk) 02:08, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

only 400,000???

How can it be claimed there are less than 400,000 Swahili people?

As far as I know most people in Zanzibar are Swahili, and there are almost 1 million people. Also most people in Mombasa (1,000,000), Tanga (250,000) and a large share of Dar es Salaam (2,500,000). If you count also sorrounding areas, the number can be in the millions, easyly.

By the way, not all Swahili people are Muslim. I met many Christians in Mombasa and Zanzibar who considered themselves to be Swahili, and became angry if I said I thought all Swahilis were Muslim. And when they were ate war, they would use drums to express their feelings. --81.38.172.141 21:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• • I am not saying the figure is correct, but I think Swahili people as a specific ethnic group is differentiated from people who speak Swahili language. But your concern is bonafide, so I have requested a reference for that figure. --Ezeu 21:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about people who speak swahili, but about Swahili people. I tell you most of people in Zanzibar (but some Omanis) and in Mombasa and Tanga (but some recent migrants from inland) are Swahili. Not so vast majority in Dar es Salaam, as having been the countries Capital has brought there many people from inland, but even then, there are MANY MORE Swahilis than 400,000. --81.38.172.141 23:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Datum: a 1999 article from Microsoft Encarta Africana has it that "the Swahili people number approximately half a million"[1]. — Matt Crypto 18:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Error ?

It's true that swahiliphone is different of swahili culture but :

• Swahili is not an ethnic group. It's a conglomerat of people. This peoples have, of course, a close culture
• Swahili culture began from Somalie to Mozambique inluding Comoros

This article is article is misnamed or informations are wrong ? :fr:Vincnet

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course it would have been easier to merely look up the most contiguous populations who share similar languages and culture with the Swahili, a well as common origin. Of course that would be the indigenous Bantu people of Kenya and Tanzania, along with migrant groups who intermarried with the locals and now share a blood and cultural connection; people like the Shirazi..Taharqa 16:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this can be done and is the case like WaManyema(Manyema) people from Congo. ManyemaKasongoDescendent (talk) 02:38, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

"Future event?

It says that Islam "will become present on the east african coast between 2012A.D. to 1999 A.d.". That just seems out of place and may need a citation to see if it is even a proposed culture theory. Caffeinator1 07:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Economy (Slavery)

Is there any particular reason why the section on economy only mentions that "Many slaves sold in Zanzibar ended up in Brazil", when the vast majority of slaves that passed through Zanzibar ended up in the Islamic/Arab world, for obvious reasons (the Arab slave trade went on for much longer on Zanzibar and it was simply easier for Europeans/Americans to transport slaves from West Africa)? I may be paranoid here, but this seems like an example of the "only white people owned slaves" myth to me. Maitreya (talk) 13:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Historical and archaeological records attest to Swahilis being prolific maritime merchants and sailors

The sources cited don't seem to support this statement. The article also mentions, the Swahili "sailed the East African coastline to lands as far away as Arabia...and China. This seems rather bogus to me and the sources again fail to support it. Everything I have read indicates that "Swahili sailing" was an Arab phenomenon, and if the Swahili people sailed at all they didn't leave the coastline. The same problem exists in the article Zanj. It looks like the editor just searched Google Books for sources with "Swahili" and "sailor." Dmcw127 (talk) 01:26, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Combining "Swahili culture" page with this one?

I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to combine the contents of the Swahili culture page with this one. It seems that all of the categories over there (arts & crafts, music, etc.) would be appropriate additions here, and it might make sense to have all of this information in one central place. Thoughts? Ninafundisha (talk) 22:52, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Same with the Swahili architecture page - possibly merge? Ninafundisha (talk) 00:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Swahili people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article about an important subject is very poor: none of the key book-length studies of Swahili history and ethnography is referenced, e.g. Prins, Pouwels, Allen, Middleton, Horton and Middleton, Kusimba... and this lack of reputable sources is reflected in the article's weak content. Zahir Mgeni 20:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Dispute over whether or not the Swahili coast is in western Kenya

I am involved in a dispute over User:Khysion's insistence that the Swahili coast is in western Kenya instead of along the Indian Ocean coast. There is a lengthy discussion on his talk page, and moderators on the dispute resolution noticeboard have indicated that I need to bring this discussion to the article talk pages as well. I would like the lead paragraphs on both this page and on [[Swahili coast] to be corrected - the Swahili coast is not in western Kenya, nor along the western coast of eastern Africa at all. It's on the eastern coast, along the Indian Ocean. This seems obvious to me. Thanks. Ninafundisha (talk) 22:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

• I don't understand you. I just shown you sources and proven my point and all of a sudden you seem emotional of western Kenya? Your map even says so. Eastern Kenya is inhabited by Somali's unless you want to tell me that Somali's don't live in Kenya which everybody obviously knowing that Somali's have their own autonomous region in eastern Kenya. The Indian ocean was always dominated by Somali traders with their longest coastline in Africa and flourishing sea-ports for thousands of years which includes eastern Kenya.

Can anybody else help me out here? Mombasa, Malindi, Lamu, etc. - all are on the Kenyan coast and all are considered part of the Swahili coast. Historically, the western side of Kenya (along Lake Victoria) is not considered part of the Swahili coast. For real. Ninafundisha (talk) 23:25, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

This is silly, Kenya has an eastern coastline, in the west it borders Uganda, Lake Victoria, etc, Huldra (talk) 23:30, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

I believe the issue here partially resides in what we consider Kenya vs. Somalia, and from looking at the Kenyan coast from an east-west perspective. The Swahili coast begins on the western portion (or south-western) of the Kenyan coast (e.g. - does not extend to the present day Somali border which is on the eastern portion of the coastline). The Kenyan coast itself is on the south-east of modern day Kenya. Saying western Kenya, however, in a modern context and borders is highly misleading.Icewhiz (talk) 15:04, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

• • • • Thanks for the input Icewhiz; I think I understand what you're saying. I think I'd argue, though, that the Swahili Coast in fact does extend up to nearly the Somalia border - there are numerous sites in the Lamu Archipelago (Lamu, Shanga, Pate, Manda, etc.), for example, that are most definitely considered part of the Swahili Coast. In any case, I'm glad the lead paragraphs for this and the Swahili Coast page got fixed - thanks everyone. Ninafundisha (talk) 15:06, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

I think the ingenious people of, say, Lamu would be rather insulted if you took them for being "up-country" folks, AFAIK, they are adamant that they are Swahili. And from, say Kiwayu (still a part of the Lamu Archipelago) you can almost see over to Somalia, i.e., it is about as far north on the Kenyan coast that is is possible to get. Huldra (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

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