Talk:Suvalkija

Different rules for Suvalkija and Suwałki Region?

Since it was requested, I will indeed ask: why is it that at Suwałki Region, Lithuanian name is not challenged, but (the same editor) keeps removing the Polish name from this one? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 03:06, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Suwałki Region into Suvalkija

It came to my attention that there was a sort of WP:POVFORK with the articles Suwałki Region and Suvalkija. There is agreement that it is one region, so why split it, when it can be kept together like Galicia and other divided regions? After looking closely, the Suvalkija article is more widely present in other language Wikipedias, so that is the reason for it being the article into which the less known Suwałki Region is merged. The term Suwałki Region can be bolded so that it is clear that it is another name for the region. Furthermore, the Suwałki Region article on Polish Wikipedia is basically about Suvalkija, while the Lithuanian wiki does not have an equivalent of Suwałki Region, only Suvalkija. So, both should be merged.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 16:50, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support, but the target should be Suwałki Region, per WP:NCGN and Suwałki. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:09, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Following WP:UCRN:

"Suvalkija" - 1,010 results

"Suwałki Region" - 814 results

"Suwalszczyzna" - 785 results

"Sudauen" - 400 results

"Sūduva" - 330 results

"Sudovia" - 295 results

"Suvalkai Region" 45 results--Cukrakalnis (talk) 17:44, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

You've searched in "any language". After excluding non-English sources, google scholar yields 335 results for "Suvalkija" (which is a Lithuanian-language term) and 612 results for "Suwałki region". It is also unclear whether the definitions of "Suvalkija" and "Suwałki region" used by these publications would support your merger idea. Hedviberit (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support merger to Suwałki region, because that's an English name. Marcelus (talk) 22:03, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
• Strong oppose, Suvalkija is a Lithuanian ethnographic/cultural region. Suwałki Region is a territory in Poland that was a subject of interwar territorial dispute. Two quite different things. Renata•3 22:21, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

  @Renata3 That's an important distinction, but do we have sources for that? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:50, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't see much benefit from merging the two articles – their focuses are quite different as already explained by Renata3. The Polish and Lithuanian areas might be seen as one region in historical context (overlapping with the Suwałki governorate), but are also two different regions if we talk about territories in post-WW1 Poland and Lithuania. The lead in the Suwałki region article contains a sourced definition of the Polish region: "It encompasses the powiats of Augustów, Suwałki, and Sejny." "Suvalkija", on the other hand, is often defined as one of Lithuania's ethnographic regions (and this is reflected in its wikipedia article), for example: "Lithuania consists of five ethnographic regions: Lithuania Minor and Samogitia in the west, Suvalkija in the southwest, Dzūkija in the southeast; Aukštaitija, the largest ethnographic region, covers the rest of the country." [1] (p. 124). Other scholarly sources using "Suvalkija" in similar context: [2] (p. 164); [3] (p. 133); [4] (pp. 1464, 1466); [5]. Hedviberit (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. The entry Suwałki Region clearly refers to a small territory around the city of Suwałki. The entry Suvalkija generally seems to refer to a much larger Lithuanian ethnographic region. However, this entry is confusing as apart from ethnography, it dwells also on history, administration, politics and economy, and the discussion gets constantly re-focused to 3 different areas: 1) an ethnographic region, 2) a geographical concept related to Сувалкская губерния, and 3) the currently Lithuanian-held Marijampolė County. Hence, I believe it has to heavily be re-written. Regards, --66jkl77 (talk) 16:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)