Talk:Sungnyung

About Sungnyung being a tisane

Is this this really tisane? It does not contain any kind of herb and the way is cooked is completely different from any kind of tea. In Korea, it is typically categorized as just a hot drink, not a tea.Stevefis 00:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

See the question below for the root of this confusion. Badagnani 00:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Correct method of preparation

Very good additions regarding the correct method of preparation. It sounds as though it's somewhat related to the preparation of nurungji, the former being a liquid by-product and the latter being a solid by-product of rice cooking. Question: I have seen, in the Korean grocery store, toasted rice available for sale in clear plastic bags (similar to oksusu cha or bori cha). I also prepare this at home by toasting 1 tbsp. of rice, then boiling it. It's similar to genmaicha but without the green tea. Is this also called sungnyung or should it instead be called "rice tea" (bap cha?)? Badagnani 00:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Thoese kinds of toasted rice tea are usually made of brown rice and they are called '현미차' or brown rice tea and it can be categorized as tea. Of course, it taste quite similar to Sungnyung, but they are different types of drink. Stevefis 01:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes. You're exactly right about the nurungji. I just forgot there was an article about Nurungji in wikipeida. Stevefis 01:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Photo

Does sungnyung always have a few grains of rice in the bottom of the cup/bowl? If so, perhaps we should change the photo to something showing this, such as this one. Badagnani 00:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Some people carefully take Sungnyung from the rice cooker for aesthetic reason so that it doesn't include grains of rice. If you go to restaurant, you usually see grains or rice in it, but I think the photo the in the article is fine. Most koreans would be able to recognize that as Sungnyung.Stevefis 01:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Hanja

The word Sungnyung cannot be expressed in Hanja. The one I removed is the Chinese characters for the word 숙랭 (SukRaeng), which is outdated word for 숭늉. Stevefis 06:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you explain that in an etymology section in the article, then? We are trying to provide as much information about this for our readers as possible. Badagnani 06:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that the ideal place for etymological information on a single term is Wiktionary (unless a term has a highly special or interesting etymology that justifies its inclusion in the article). The Wikipedia article's external links section should contain (a) link(s) leading to the corresponding Wiktionary entry/entries.

Some people think this sort of information should not be in WP articles – I've seen my properly referenced etymology of 김치 removed from the German article on it. Wikipeditor 08:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I strongly don't agree. Wikipedia is not paper and we owe a 100% explanation of this subject (not a 80% or 90%) to our readers. This includes an explanation of the word, and is normal for other articles about foreign terms such as Vermicelli. Otherwise readers would not know the origin of the term, and their knowledge would be incomplete. Badagnani 16:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Unless there is a korean language expert who is paying attention to this article, I think it's unnecessary to bring up the etimology. I just know that 숭늉 is not a Hanja word and I don't know much about the origin of its word. It's better to keep the article simple rather than making it complicated, which is more likely to make errors.Stevefis 05:46, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it doesn't have hanja *now*, but if the hanja that were removed (熟冷) were correct, it did have that name before. Thus, our readers are deserving to have a 100% explanation of the historical and etymological context of this item. Badagnani 05:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You just said word "perhaps". If you are not 100% sure about the origin of the word, don't add etymology section on it. Our readers deserve 100% 'accurate' information. Even as a Korean, I'm not confident enough to add such section.Stevefis 06:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I assumed that the editor who had originally added it got this from an authoritative source. Do you have access to an excellent, huge dictionary that would list these etymologies? Badagnani 06:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any etymology dictionary so I can't add any information about the words' origin. But one thing I'm sure is that the word Sungnyung is a pure Korean word, which cannot be expressed in Hanja. This fact can be confirmed in almost any Korean dictionary.Stevefis 06:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

That's fine, but you keep leaving out where did 熟冷 come from? Do you believe it to be an example of hanjaization? If it was not originally Sino-Korean and dates back to the Korean language as it existed at the dawn of time, then what is the "pure Korean" etymology/root words for this term? This really is important and I'm pretty sure there are Korean scholars who know this, and books that contain this information. Badagnani 06:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

When I looked at the word 熟冷(숙랭) in dictionary, it says it is just a cold water served for ancestor worship ceremony. I think there might be relationship with the word SungNyung(숭늉) but the dictionary doesn't have any detail about the relationship.Stevefis 15:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You see, I've got access to this authoritative, huge, excellent dictionary that lists these etymologies. In fact, it's right over at http://korean.go.kr/06_new/dic/search.jsp?att1=숭늉, where all you need to do is to click on the bold “숭늉”. The etymology is always at the end of the first paragraph, that is after the definitions and example sentences and before fixed expressions and related verbs. Here goes (in Yale romanisation sans pitch/length marks):

熟冷 > sywukloyng (1489 Kwūkup Kan.ipang Ēnhay [救急簡易方諺解] spelling) > sywungnwong > swungnyung

Hope this helps – if we do this for every Korean term, won't the 국립국어원 sue us for copying their 표준국어대사전?

Customers who find this dictionary useful may also be interested in the following item(s): Nifty Firefox Trick – Wikipeditor 16:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

In other words, what has taken place here is not hanjaisation, but dehanjaisation as is the case with 馬>말, 契>글, 圓>원, 白菜>배추, 沈菜>김치 and ?>태껸. – Wikipeditor 17:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

This is really good! Badagnani 17:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Nurungji

Are you saying that nurungji is cooked into sungnyung? If so, that should be made clear at the Nurungji article. I was under the impression that when you cook the nurungji, the finished dish is also called nurungji. Badagnani 17:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)