Talk:Sulfur/Archive 1

Information Sources

Sulfur is a yellowish substance that looks like yellow sugar cubes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.153.75 (talk) 04:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC) Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Sulfur. Additional text was taken directly from USGS Sulfur Statistics and Information, USGS Periodic Table - Sulfur, from the Elements database 20001107 (via dict.org), Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via dict.org) and WordNet (r) 1.7 (via dict.org). Data for the table was obtained from the sources listed on the subject page and Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements but was reformatted and converted into SI units.

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Sulphur dioxide & hydrogen disulphide confusion

The Precautions section seems to confuse sulfur dioxide and hydrogen disulfide. Isn't the smell-deadening effect specific to the latter? (Methinks that SO2 would go straight from pungent to painful to lethal.) Also elemental sulfur does not seem to be as dangerous as its compounds.Jorge Stolfi 23:13, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree the precautions section needs serious corrections. It claims the smell-deadening effect for sulphur (Jorge is right, it's actually H2S), and describes elemental sulphur itself as "deadly" (actually it's toxicity is low.) In addition, the toxic effects of inhaling sulphur dioxide are wildly exaggerated; it's a significant irritant and a respiratory suppressant, it doesn't cause "immediate bleeding"!. I will make corrections when I get time later today, unless someone else does first. (I also intent to expand the allotropes from a single line to a subsection, and move "amorphous sulphur" there from its incorrect position under "compounds"). Securiger 00:59, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, people... Mea culpa (my bad). I was misinformed. This information was word of mouth from someone I respected, but the words were several years old when I wrote them here, so I must have gotten it way wrong. Please forgive, and please correct me? I would correct the info myself but I know I'm not the expert. Thanks for your attention to detail. Humbly, -- JustAnyone | [[User talk::Justanyone|talk]] 4/28/2004 10:32 pm CDT

Editing Needed?

I noticed that when I first came to the main article page, I saw the huge empty space that the info box created. Is there any way that someone can fix it? (I would do it myself, only I don't really know how to do anything right now..ha ha.) Thank you kindly, Taekwondo_Tiger_Girl_22

Liquid sulfur allotropes

In liquid stage and in normal pressure, there are 3 sulfur allotropes: A yellow liquid sulfur (S8). Then brown rubber-like mass [(S)n]. Final liquid sulfur allotrope is a brown liquid (S8, S6 etc.)

Taurine

Taurine is listed as an example of a sulfur-containing amino acid, yet the Taurine page states that it is often misconceived as an amino acid, although it is not.

Octasulfur

That description of the appearance of Octasulfur is horrible. I STILL don't understand how it looks, even after hours of searching on the web...

A zig-zag ring. Like VVVVV...

David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 2006/3/6 | 22:30 CET

Imagine a ring of V's where each point is an atom of sulfur. Das Nerd 02:19, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

SIR

I came across this soil science and biology related subject today. Hopefully, one of us will be able to develop it into a stand-alone article.

Sulfur-induced resistance (SIR) "defines a phenomenon of enhanced tolerance against pathogens when crop plants are optimally supplied with sulfur."[1] (Question in my mind: fungal pathogens mainly or exclusively?)

"Enhanced tolerance of crop plants with optimal sulfate supply to fungal pathogens provides a new approach to improve plant health and yield." [1]

"SIR has been verified for seven host/pathogen relations."[2]

"The potential of SIR in reducing fungal attacks under field conditions has been estimated to 17-35%. " [2]

"The mechanisms of this sulfur-induced resistance (SIR) are, however, not yet known." [3]

"The role of sulfur (S) in the resistance of crops against diseases became obvious at the end of the 1980s when atmospheric S depositions were so much reduced by clean air acts that S deficiency became a widespread nutrient disorder in European agriculture. ... It has been long known that foliar applied elemental S has a fungicidal impact but only recently could it be shown that soil-applied S in the form of sulphate also had a significant effect on the health status of crops. A significant repressive effect of soil-applied S on the infection of oilseed rape with Pyrenopeziza brassicae, grapes with Uncinula necator, and potato tubers with Rhizoctonia solani was found. The results of these experiments indicate that S metabolites are involved in disease resistance and support the concept of sulphur-induced resistance (SIR). The S metabolism of plants offers several possibilities to combat fungal attacks and different metabolites were investigated with respect to their role in SIR. For instance elemental S depositions in the vascular tissue of resistant cocoa (Theobroma cacao) in response to infection with Verticillium dahliae were attributed to the toxicity of elemental S. Other mechanisms to combat biotic stress, which are provided by S metabolism, involve glutathione (GSH), phytoalexins, glucosinolates, and the release of S-containing volatiles. H2S is cytotoxic and therefore a relationship between increasing H2S emissions and the resistance of crops against pest and diseases is possible." (and this source continues with additional background information from there)[3]

[1] http://sulfur.ipk-gatersleben.de/research.htm

[2] http://www.idw-online.de/pages/de/news135270

[3] http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/55/406/2305

Paleorthid 19:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Sulfuric Acid

A description of the mechanism by which sulfuric acid is created in the Environmental Impact section would be appreciated.

→should the uses of sulfuric acid be meantioned?

The sulfuric acid article is the best place for matters concerning sulfuric acid. 193.113.135.112 (talk) 08:08, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Odor?

Like my chemistry teacher, the article states that sulfur is odorless. But I can smell it. The odor is very distinctive -- and totally different from the famous stench of hydrogen sulfide with which it is impossible to confuse. What am I smelling when I sniff at sulfur crystals?

David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 2006/3/6 | 22:32 CET

Raw Sulfur is odorless when it is pure S atoms, the odor is caused by the S ions that occur in very small quantitis to the bulk.Das Nerd 02:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sulfur in its solid state has a finite vapor pressure, and sublimes to form a gas, which will eventually condense into crystalline form again. This process is one way to purify raw sulfur, by collecting the sublimed crystals on a condenser (flowers of sulfur). Sulfur vapor has a distinctive odor, not altogether unpleasant, and this is what you are detecting when you sniff sulfur crystals.

Most sulfur compounds reek like ass hole.Cameron Nedland 17:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Whatever happened to valency?

I was very surprised to see that the article doesn't mention the valencies of sulphur. Surely they should be in the infobox? Loom91 16:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

• The valency information is listed in both the article and info box. It is listed under Oxidation states, the accepted term to describe the outermost electron shell and bonding nature.Das Nerd 05:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
  • So wikipedia articles are only for those who know everything to begin with. No need to make it accessible to the millions who know valency by the name valency and not oxidation states? Should accessibility be sacrificed to make way for jargon? Loom91 07:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Nay, oxidation state is the term that is taught these days as opposed to the dated term valency. I learned it initially as valence theory (not so many years ago in high school) and it progressed onto oxidation states. If you check the articles on valence and valency it should refer you in the article to oxidation states in some manner.Das Nerd 01:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
      • My point is that it PROGRESSED into oxidation states. Few people have a higher education in chemistry. A person looking for the valency of an element may arrive at the wikipedia article on that element and it doesn't seem a good thing to turn him away just because we couldn't resist the temptation to show off how much we know. Loom91 07:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Firstly, this is an encyclopedia not a text book. A user who wants to know about valency, should check out the valency article. It's not a matter of showing off how much we know but a matter of accuracy and consistency. For example, just because the average user may not know the difference between a bacteria and a virus, it doesn't mean we should use the two terms interchangably. Instead, we use the terms accurately and let the user find out for what the difference between the two are. Nil Einne 15:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
          • I didn't get taught valency until this year at university. All through secondary school I've known it as oxidation state.

see also related Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements#Valency in infobox --Femto 15:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• But couldn't you just put in parentheses the term valency so all us dumb people know what you are talking about? Even I didn't know what oxidation that meant until I read this article on the talk page. Also, I think i might add that my class is studying atoms and the sort right now in school and we learned the term "valency" instead of oxidation. Thanks anyways, this_froggy_goes_ribbit_ribbit 02:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• In Australia, it is taught in secondary schools as valency. We have valency tables, and we learn the valencies of all the elements, and work out the valencies of products from a reaction. Oxidation is occasionally mentioned as additional knowledge.--211.30.230.115 08:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Note that valence and oxidation state are NOT exactly the same thing. Valence is the number of single bonds that an atom can form; oxidation state is the charge that an atom would have if the electrons were distributed according to certain rules. As an example of the difference, osmium can have an oxidation state of +8, but there are no known octavalent osmium compounds (at least last time I checked). --Itub 11:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium_tetroxide Jokem (talk) 22:22, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

chea chea all dat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.119.102 (talk) 14:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

"sulvere" ?

"Sulvere" is a word not found in my Sanskrit dictionary—nor does a googling of the form Devanagarized return any results—and the presence of an L indicates it would be a loanword anyway. According to the page history, an anon already brought this point up but the statement was later removed without special comment by User:Eudyptes, who however retained that anon's unsourced conjecture on the word's Arabic origin, which is still in the article. A quick Google Book Search shows it's not hard to find any shortage of books mentioning "sulvere" in books on chemistry, but . . . I'd like to see an appearance of "sulvere" in a Sanskrit reference or its usage in a Sanskrit text, and reason it should appear here (as opposed to, say, the language it borrowed the word from). —Muke Tever talk 21:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Islands that reek of sulphur

I went to the Eolian Islands recently, Lipari was very nice, but Vulcan (I think) reeked of sulphur. It had a mud bath and hot springs, and the whole thing was all right after a few minutes (senses adjusted, I suppose), but the first thing we noticed was that it smelled awful. So how about a mention of these sorts of places? I'm not even sure of their geological name, but I'm sure someone does. --198.53.200.80 00:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Sulfur as a Commodity

Sulfur is a very important commodity sold in bulk form world wide. The primary use for bulk sulfur is to make sulfuric acid, a key ingredient in phosphate fertilizer.

Does anyone feel that info about the commerical market for sulfur is relevant to main sulfur entry? Bevanhouston 05:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea. There is only a sentence or two about it in the "Applications" section. It's certainly worth expanding on that. --Ed (Edgar181) 15:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

irrelevant joke is not NPOV

I think that the reference to any joke about the temperature of Hell has no place in an article about sulfur. Being that it is a joke about a religious belief, it cannot be made NPOV. The physical properties of sulfur are objectively quantified. The "joke" is clearly biased. I recommend permanent deletion. —Denver75.192.164.149 15:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree and have removed it. --Ed (Edgar181) 12:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

can sulfur be ingested by humans

What forms of sulfur can be ingested by humans as a preventive health role. Is it benefical as a cleaning agent to our bodies or is it deadly is comsummed in any quanity. Thanks cd —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.32.45.205 (talk) 23:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC). A century ago, sulfer was mixed with mollasis as a spring tonic. High purity sulfer is not very toxic, but some of the impurities are poisonous, bad smelling and/or bad tasting. Ccpoodle 00:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

how many protons?

how many protons does the sulfur have? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.113.58.253 (talk) 16:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

It has 16 protons. Hope this helps! --LuigiManiac 16:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Opposite of Greenhouse gas?

Though its a main component of acid rain I heard that sulfur (or some kind of form of it) in the atmosphere has a cooling effect. It deflects incoming solar radiation while allowing heat to radiate off into space. Is this true at all? If not I must have read wrong, because I remember the USAD Climatology guide saying that a certain gas is capable of reversing the greenhouse gas effect.

This is english wikipedia right? (en.wikipedia.org) So the spelling should be sulphur. The american spelling is sulfur, i accept that. There should be both an american and british version of wikipedia to stop this argument, because it will not stop...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.182.229 (talk)

In a perfect world, we'd all use sulphur. I kid, I kid. Really, there are not enough differences to warrant such a split. If anything, the split would do more harm than good, as it splits the workforce and doubles the work for English speakers. I'm sure this suggestion has been discussed to death already, and consensus appeared to be against splitting if I remember right. --LuigiManiac 14:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Sulfur is the correct spelling worldwide, even in Britain where I come from. IUPAC adopted the spelling in around 1990 I think. Same with aluminium; that's also the correct spelling worldwide. --John 13:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

John is right, plus the Chemistry Wikiproject has decided that in any chemistry context in Wikipedia, sulfur is to be spelled with an F - see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry)#Element names.

I'm a chemist, I'm English, and I always spell sulfur with an F because it is a standardised spelling. I think visitors to this article and any other in Wikipedia should stop requesting spelling changes, accept WP:CHEMISTRY's decision and get on with their lives. In fact, I think the spelling sulphur will become increasingly marginalised over time until it disappears.

Ben 20:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Atmosphere

The SO2 in the atmosphere doesn't make H2SO4 it makes H2SO3? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjbroom (talk • contribs) 21:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

SO2 + H2O -> H2SO3, no doubt. But the atmosphere also has O2, so another possible reaction is SO2 + H2O + 1/2O2 -> H2SO4. A good question is how much SO2 turns into H2SO3 and how much into H2SO4. You may have to ask an atmospheric chemist, because I have no idea. ;-) --Itub 13:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the 2SO2+O2 --> 2SO3 reaction is catalysed by the UV rays in the atmosphere. Much like in venus where the reaction SO2+CO2-->SO3+CO happens Alecjw (talk) 23:41, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

S₃^- Ion?

Does anyone know what this ion is called? It is mentioned in the article Ultramarine.RSido 03:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The analogous oxygen anion is called ozonide. I don't know if the sulfur ion has a trivial name, but a systematic name would be something like "trisulfide radical anion". --Itub 12:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Chivers, Tristram "Ubiquitous trisulfur radical anion" Nature (1974), 252, 32-3.--Smokefoot 23:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The colour of Sulfur

In the article it says that S₇ is responsible for the yellow colour of sulfur. I am working on an allotropes of sulfur article and none of my references back this up. Does anyone know any different? Axiosaurus 21:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of S₇. Sounds like a typo. S₈ is the common allotrope I remember from the sulfur chapter in basic chem. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 21:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

"It is this S7 content that causes the bright yellow color of most commercial sulfur samples while pure S8 is greenish-yellow..." R. Steudel in Elemental Sulfur and Sulfur-Rich Compounds" R. Steudel (ed.) Many of the various rings have been well characterized, mostly in the 70's. Four allotropes of S7 are known.--Smokefoot 23:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm an older geezer, so my textbooks all predate the 70's. But it's good to learn something new every day. Thanks. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 00:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Oxidation number

What's the oxidation number of the sulfur in Disulfur Heptoxide? I thought it's 7... --24.40.202.246 (talk) 02:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's +7. SBHarris 05:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

LOL. No way. It is a kind of peroxide where oxigen has the oxidation number -1 instead of -2. Say 5 of the oxigens have -2 and 2 have -1; this leaves both S atoms with +6. Nergaal (talk) 06:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Check Higher sulfur oxides for details. Nergaal (talk) 06:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ketone

Sulfoxides have the form R-S(=O)-R′. A common sulfoxide is DMSO. This is the sulfur equivalent of ketones, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.203.58.1 (talk) 18:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

If you asked me what the sulfur equivalent of a ketone was, I'd say a thioketone.

Sulfoxides are different from ketones in several ways:

• sulfoxides are pyramidal, whereas ketones are planar

• sulfoxides can be oxidised to sulfones, but there is no carbon equivalent of a sulfone

• sulfoxides can be reduced to thioethers, but there is no stable carbon equivalent of a thioether (the closest being a carbene)

• sulfoxides are excellent ligands (at sulfur), unlike ketones

Ben (talk) 19:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Does sulphur react with dilute hydrochloric acid?

Does it? 88.107.22.193 (talk) 20:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

According to http://www.webelements.com/sulfur/chemistry.html, sulfur does not react with dilute non-oxidizing acids. Therefore, it does not react with dilute hydrochloric acid.

Ben (talk) 15:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

question

in the following sentence "Hydrogen sulfide is toxic. Although very pungent at first, it quickly deadens the sense of smell, so potential victims may be unaware of its presence until death or other symptoms occur." could one possibly be aware of his/her looming death? is it possible to be aware of ones death after one is dead ? I mean is there an afterlife ? Jeroje (talk) 11:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a silly sentence. Should be rephrased to say "...victims might not realise they are being poisoned until symptoms develop."

Ben (talk) 15:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Hydrogen Sulfide

How many times does it need to be mentioned that Hydrogen Sulfide is the "rotten egg" smell? I merely skimmed the article and saw it three times. Someone please tidy this thing up. -216.191.79.10 (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't Sulfur also be in Category:Biology and pharmacology of chemical elements ?

Shouldn't Sulfur also be in Category:Biology and pharmacology of chemical elements ? Eldin raigmore (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Number of isotopes: 24 or 25?

As far as I can see metastable isomers should not be added to the numbers of isotopes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonGjer (talk • contribs) 12:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Thermal Shock

I read where solid Sufur, if left in a room, will start to flake off gradually due to thermal shock from changes in room temperature. Is this true? Jokem (talk) 22:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)